2022 NFL Draft Thread

[NYRaider]

21 hours ago, Dessie said:

This has to be irony, you were one of the main cheerleaders for Ferrell on draft day. How can you say you can’t believe we took him lol. 

On 1/6/2019 at 4:20 PM, NYRaider said:

I'd be ecstatic with:

4th: Quinnen Williams, DT, Alabama

24th: DK Metcalf, WR, Ole Miss

26th: Nasir Adderley, S, Delaware 

35th: Montez Sweat, Edge, Missippi State 

 

On 2/3/2019 at 7:31 PM, NYRaider said:

My absolute dream scenario is that we sign someone like Frank Clark, draft Quinnen Williams at 4, and get a guy like Brian Burns at 24. 

On 4/26/2019 at 7:23 AM, big_palooka said:

I'll own that. I might have been the first to support Ferrell. Even at 4. I'm personally happy because he is a stud. You're drafting a high floor player. 

It's easy to say trade back, but you need a trade partner. I would have rather seen Oliver or White picked and then traded up to land Ferrel. That was the value play.

In the end, I have no doubts he's going to grind for this team. It looks like a reach right now based on value. 3 years from now, who know. 

It is so easy to get lost in the draft twitter takes. Get caught up on sexy buzz words like "edge bending", etc. The only thing that made this pick sting was the perception the Raiders could have gotten him at 24. 

@big_palooka loved it too, so all of his draft takes should be brought up forever right weirdo? @Dessie

 

 

 

 

[NYRaider]

I was the biggest "Ferrell cheer leader" though, man some of you literally need to seek help.

On 4/28/2019 at 7:56 AM, NYRaider said:

Ferrell was the cleanest edge prospect in the class and should be a plug and play starter. Bosa was clearly the best edge in the class but he has injury concerns and the best ability is availability. Josh Allen was good but he's a 3-4 OLB that doesn't fit our scheme, Gary was a workout warrior with minimal production, Burns was a speed rusher with weight/strength concerns, and Montez Sweat's heart condition could realistically cut his career very short. 

Ferrell is only 21, has produced at an elite level, has good athleticism, and has the frame/tools you look for in an edge player. Barring injury, he should be a starter here for a long time. We could've taken a "sexier" pick for sure but those guys came with a lot more risk. 

[Geezy]

ferrell woulda been a bust at #24 too lol 

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, Geezy said:

ferrell woulda been a bust at #24 too lol 

Imagine if the team would've went with my preference of Quinnen Williams, DK Metcalf, Nassir Adderly, and Montez Sweat. But some of the strange kids on here will say I loved the Ferrell pick for stating what was true and what @big_palooka also said. Ferrell was a low ceiling/high floor player. We can look at revisionist history all that we want but hindsight is 20-20. 

Bosa was clearly the best prospect but he didn't fall to us. Sweat had a serious medical condition and hasn't done much this season. And Josh Allen didn't really fit our scheme and has 5 sacks over the last two seasons while being injured in both. 

[NYRaider]

On 4/23/2020 at 7:38 PM, Dessie said:

Can play slot corner which I wouldn’t be surprised is where he ends up. 

On 4/23/2020 at 8:06 PM, Dessie said:

Exactly I don’t think anyone has said he’s a bad player just don’t like the value. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ronjon1990]

1 hour ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

If he is a C+ GM, this team should not look as good as it does right now. We are loaded with talent. Just being held back by Gruden.

I'd give him a C+ right now as a GM when talking the whole gig. He's made some pretty good signings (or, at least listened to someone who vouched for guys like Hayward, Perryman, Agholor, etc.). However, if we're going to give him credit for the good since 2019, he also gets some blame for the bad. It all goes back to just how much sway he had in comparison to Gruden. I say this because in that timespan, we've also made some atrocious contract signings like Tyrell Williams, Mariota, and Nassib, while getting the poor side of trades more often than not (5th for Gabe? The AB debacle anyone should have seen coming.). 

That said, the drafts have been D level work. Horrid reaches, awful value, busts, guys who never played taken on day 2, drafting deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep reserves like Koonce, Deablo, Gillespie when there were clear as day needs readily apparent. 

That grade can go up though. The 2019 class looks pretty good, though none of Ferrell, Jacobs, or Abram have proven to be 1st round quality. He's being buoyed by striking gold with Crosby, Moreau, and Renfrow. That's rare though, and shouldn't be considered his standard. 

2020, in hindsight, is pretty much a C+. Ruggs wound up being a successful reach, Edwards was a steal. And Simpson is....ok. Arnette, Bowden, Muse, and Amik were all day 1/2 picks just a season ago, and 3 are definitive F picks, with Amik barely hanging on himself. To go in with 7 picks in the top 140 and miss that much is bad.

This year we're basically hanging on Moehrig and Hobbs. Leatherwood is functional but his penalty issues are nothing new and he was a massive reach now playing a late day 2/day 3 position. Gillespie apparently plays behind freaking Leavitt. Koonce is deep down the chart. And Deablo is TBD. 

And again, we debate whether Gruden made the 1st round calls. If so, strike the shine from Ruggs and Abram, and Jacobs off of the Mayock mirror. He struck gold on Crosby, Renfrow, and Moreau all at once, and got another one in Hobbs. But what else? 

Discounting the first round, Mayock has had 14 picks made in the top 150. Hobbs was a real late steal at 167.  7 have been varying degrees of productive (Mullen, Crosby, Moreau, Renfrow, Edwards, Simpson, Moehrig). That's really good.....until you factor in the absolute whiffs on Johnson, Muse, Bowden, and Robinson with picks you expect at least SOME contribution from. 

2019 was great. 2020 was absolute garbage. 2021 is TBD, but are we really going to say we expect a lot from Koonce, Deablo, or Gillespie? Maybe. But he can't receive a grade for any of them yet. 

So, again, I'd give him a C+ with some benefit of the doubt on personnel choice. But there have been way too many awful contracts and 2nd round or later (the supposed Mayock rounds) to blanketly sing his praises. The waste of resources can't just be overlooked because he had a great 2019 class and a late round steal here and there. 

In 2022, if we don't flop FA and he doesn't do anything dumb in the 1st (thus proving he had no say in the big reaches), he can probably get himself up to a solid B grade. If the 2021 class really contributes and/or the entire 2022 class looks like smart choices, that grade, frankly, would be an A with 2020 being a clear outlier. But both could tank and then what?

C+, imo, gives him some benefit of the doubt and plenty of ways to move up into great GM status with just a couple more good moves, but also acknowledges some of the all-time headscratching decisions he's made and puts him on theoretical notice. I think that's plenty fair enough. 

 

[Geezy]

14 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Imagine if the team would've went with my preference of Quinnen Williams, DK Metcalf, Nassir Adderly, and Montez Sweat. But some of the strange kids on here will say I loved the Ferrell pick for stating what was true and what @big_palooka also said. Ferrell was a low ceiling/high floor player. We can look at revisionist history all that we want but hindsight is 20-20. 

Bosa was clearly the best prospect but he didn't fall to us. Sweat had a serious medical condition and hasn't done much this season. And Josh Allen didn't really fit our scheme and has 5 sacks over the last two seasons while being injured in both. 

thing is Quinnen wasnt available. 

[NYRaider]

Just now, ronjon1990 said:

That said, the drafts have been D level work. Horrid reaches, awful value, busts, guys who never played taken on day 2, drafting deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep reserves like Koonce, Deablo, Gillespie when there were clear as day needs readily apparent. 

I'll reserve judgement on the Koonce, Deablo, and Gillespie picks because they were Gus Bradley guys. Kyzir White and Kam Chancellor were both non-factors as rookies but then became good players.

[NYRaider]

2 minutes ago, Geezy said:

thing is Quinnen wasnt available. 

Edit wrong person. That is true, but it's the draft. We can all look and point back at wrong takes. Just the weirdos on here are always trying to pester me for some reason, lol.

Edited October 29, 2021 by NYRaider

[ronjon1990]

3 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

I'll reserve judgement on the Koonce, Deablo, and Gillespie picks because they were Gus Bradley guys. Kyzir White and Kam Chancellor were both non-factors as rookies but then became good players.

I don't mind reserving judgment on them either insofar as the picks have been made and they're here so let's see what they've got. 

My main point is with the bulk of the 2021 "Mayock rounds" picks essentially redshirting, he doesn't get to claim success or be rated with failure yet. 

That leaves a stellar 2019 draft and one of the worst ever seen in 2020. The midway point between an A+ and an F would be a C+/B- on drafts. Because of some of the bad contracts given out and lackluster trade returns, I'd ding him to the C+ instead of the B- in terms of overall job performance.

[ronjon1990]

30 minutes ago, Geezy said:

ferrell woulda been a bust at #24 too lol 

Mayocks standard deviation of whiffing 3rds and hitting 5ths means Ferrell's contribution would be considered a bust unless he was a 6th rounder lol

[Jeremy408]

2 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

I don't mind reserving judgment on them either insofar as the picks have been made and they're here so let's see what they've got. 

My main point is with the bulk of the 2021 "Mayock rounds" picks essentially redshirting, he doesn't get to claim success or be rated with failure yet. 

That leaves a stellar 2019 draft and one of the worst ever seen in 2020. The midway point between an A+ and an F would be a C+/B- on drafts. Because of some of the bad contracts given out and lackluster trade returns, I'd ding him to the C+ instead of the B- in terms of overall job performance.

Thats fair. I'm going into this year though I wanted to see what the pics in the signings look like without Paul Gunther being the one that the resources are going to. And thus far, my theory that he had his hand in those pics looks to be proving correct. 

But again to give them a C+ is fair because this year isn't done yet and there's still two other years to go off of

[ronjon1990]

2 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

Thats fair. I'm going into this year though I wanted to see what the pics in the signings look like without Paul Gunther being the one that the resources are going to. And thus far, my theory that he had his hand in those pics looks to be proving correct. 

But again to give them a C+ is fair because this year isn't done yet and there's still two other years to go off of

Yep. Like I said, I'm prepared to skyrocket that grade all the way to an A if he proves that he wasn't the one reaching and that 2020 was an outlier like everyone eventually has. Just asking to be shown before giving that grade lol

[NYRaider]

7 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

I don't mind reserving judgment on them either insofar as the picks have been made and they're here so let's see what they've got. 

My main point is with the bulk of the 2021 "Mayock rounds" picks essentially redshirting, he doesn't get to claim success or be rated with failure yet. 

That leaves a stellar 2019 draft and one of the worst ever seen in 2020. The midway point between an A+ and an F would be a C+/B- on drafts. Because of some of the bad contracts given out and lackluster trade returns, I'd ding him to the C+ instead of the B- in terms of overall job performance.

Are we defining round 3-5 as Mayock rounds?

2019:

Maxx Crosby (Round 4) - A+ pick

Foster Moreau (Round 4) - Good pick

Isaiah Johnson (Round 4) - Toolsy guy that didn't work out

Hunter Renfrow (Round 5) - Great pick

2020:

Lynn Bowden (Round 3) - LOL

Bryan Edwards (Round 3) - Good pick

Tanner Muse (Round 3 ) - LOL

John Simpson (Round 4) - Okay pick

Amik Robertson (Round 4) - Meh

2021: 

Malcolm Koonce (Round 3) - TBD

Divine Deablo (Round 3) - TBD

Tyree Gillespie (Round 4) - TBD

Nate Hobbs (Round 5) - Great pick

 

[Jeremy408]

7 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Yep. Like I said, I'm prepared to skyrocket that grade all the way to an A if he proves that he wasn't the one reaching and that 2020 was an outlier like everyone eventually has. Just asking to be shown before giving that grade lol

It just seemed to me that the everybody that was drafted or signed on defense had a bengals counterpart that you could tell that Paul Gunther was trying to get his version of. 

I mean think about it: Gus Bradley shows up and all of a sudden mike me I can do no wrong when he picks up a defense of player whether it be the draft or free agency or trade picking someone up from someone else's practice squad. That had to play a role IMO. 

Edited October 29, 2021 by Jeremy408