2022 NFL Draft Thread

[Frankie2Gunz]

7 hours ago, NYRaider said:

There's zero guarantee that Gardner becomes a lock down #1 CB.

He has all the skills to do so.  Just like I said last year when I wanted Horn or Surtain with our 1st picks.  Gardner has all of the skills to be a lockdown number 1 and you take a chance on that over a run stuffing NT any day of the week and twice on Sunday!

[Frankie2Gunz]

6 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

1. We don’t actually need a pass rushing DT. We just Need to a Bring back two out of three of Solomon Thomas Quinton Jefferson or Darius Philon

2. I don’t have a problem with a NT in the mold of vita vea. He looks like the Victa bedtime who next to somebody Like the 3 DTs that I mentioned I could see him doing damage. He would actually also help us stop the run

3. What would really be nice is some type of athletic linebacker that plays the run. 

4. I don’t see corner as much of a need if we bring back Casey Hayward and Or #35 to go with Mullen(unless you’re talking about depth)

 

You are comparing him to Via, who is the best at his position and plays around a ton of surrounding talent.  Put him on the Lions and what type of impact does he have as a two down, run stuffing DT?  

How many two down, run stuffing DT's in the NFL are worthy of a top 15 pick in the draft? Also run stuffing DT's can be acquired via free agency and are usually reasonably priced because of the lack of importance of their position as they do not get after the QB.  

Hayward will be 33 next season and players at that age decline very rapidly.  Mullin is an average CB, we need a lockdown stud CB who is young and Gardner fits that mold.  To answer your question a lockdown CB is a need....

Edited November 24, 2021 by Frankie2Gunz

[Frankie2Gunz]

7 hours ago, NYRaider said:

There's zero guarantee that Gardner becomes a lock down #1 CB.

Explain to me what guarantees there are on draft day?  

Aren't you one of the guys who was guaranteeing Fields was going to be this can't miss stud and we need to mortgage our future to trade up and acquire him?  Are you talking about guarantees like that? LOL

[Jeremy408]

52 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

You are comparing him to Via, who is the best at his position and plays around a ton of surrounding talent.  Put him on the Lions and what type of impact does he have as a two down, run stuffing DT?  

How many two down, run stuffing DT's in the NFL are worthy of a top 15 pick in the draft? Also run stuffing DT's can be acquired via free agency and are usually reasonably priced because of the lack of importance of their position as they do not get after the QB.  

Hayward will be 33 next season and players at that age decline very rapidly.  Mullin is an average CB, we need a lockdown stud CB who is young and Gardner fits that mold.  To answer your question a lockdown CB is a need....

Well I mean it’s not like Max Crosby and Yannick slouches either(don’t look now but they’ve been a better path rush deal than Pierre Paul and Barrett this year)

And like I’ve mentioned before if we bring two out of the three defensive tackles that we have(or really just Solomon Thomas) to go along with Jordan Davis that’s actually a really good. I think Davis is going to be one of those NTs that test really well which means he has potential to be able to rush the passer. Players like that are good oline‘s like ours. 

What you said about run stuffing NTs being found in FA for cheap is true but I actually think Jordan Davis has a potential to be a good pass rushing NT which there are only like three of in the NFL.

Yes Hayward is 33 next year but he’s also not allowed to touchdown all season. I think that’s worth a look for next year while you may draft some second or third rounder to play behind him. Trevon mullen is actually good with a pass rush(As most corners are).  Fayscon too. If you’re not able to resign Hayward I think you go Fayscon and Mullen and draft a corner. Corner has not been the problem this year they’ve actually been one of the strengths.

Our real problems personally wise are:

1. We don’t have a linebacker that can both cover and play the run well. It’s one or the other. Because of this team to figure it out but you don’t even really have to deal with the corners you just need to throw at the linebackers and run the ball. That’s why we lose teams were the quarterback thrown for less than 200 yards multiple times this season. I think a nose tackle with pass rush ability helps the run which makes the team have to pass. As well as an all-around linebacker. 

2. Carr starting to play like pre-Gruden where he gets flustered and just all of the ball up. this is led to a lot of turnovers and failed third down conversions which puts of the defense back on the field. Now I can understand part of that may be losing your 4.2 running receiver that can Highpoint the ball(there’s not very many of those I’ve ever even seen) midseason but the fact still remains. No I don’t think we get rid of Carr(I don’t believe in getting rid of a quarterback just because plus there’s nobody better than Carr that we would be able to get) but I do think we need to see if we can get him a bona fide receiver on the outside to go with a Waller. He also needs to flat out play better. 
 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2021 by Jeremy408

[Jeremy408]

40 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

Explain to me what guarantees there are on draft day?  

Aren't you one of the guys who was guaranteeing Fields was going to be this can't miss stud and we need to mortgage our future to trade up and acquire him?  Are you talking about guarantees like that? LOL

^Lol I remember this for sure. This is why exactly I don’t think it makes sense to move on from Carr.

[Heart of Oak]

1 hour ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

He has all the skills to do so.  Just like I said last year when I wanted Horn or Surtain with our 1st picks.  Gardner has all of the skills to be a lockdown number 1 and you take a chance on that over a run stuffing NT any day of the week and twice on Sunday!

I think that depends on the defense - as a rule I would say you are right CB>NT...however, if we stick with Bradley getting home with 4 is the cornerstone of his defense, so getting a special talent on the inside of the line would have more value. Stop the run, pressure with 4 and have a numbers advantage in the back end.

[Jeremy408]

49 minutes ago, Heart of Oak said:

I think that depends on the defense - as a rule I would say you are right CB>NT...however, if we stick with Bradley getting home with 4 is the cornerstone of his defense, so getting a special talent on the inside of the line would have more value. Stop the run, pressure with 4 and have a numbers advantage in the back end.

When you're able to rush the passer there are certain things that don't matter as much like who the corners are. I've mentioned it on here before but there are players whose career have been prolonged because of the pass rush they played along side. 

[Heart of Oak]

3 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

When you're able to rush the passer there are certain things that don't matter as much like who the corners are. I've mentioned it on here before but there are players whose career have been prolonged because of the pass rush they played along side. 

Yeah I am not demeaning CB play, I would love to have Ahmad Gardner back there, but if Davis is one of those special players who can provide pass rush and stop the run (not saying he is - not watched enough tape yet) then that is invaluable...especially when you hardly blitz.

[Jeremy408]

11 minutes ago, Heart of Oak said:

Yeah I am not demeaning CB play, I would love to have Ahmad Gardner back there, but if Davis is one of those special players who can provide pass rush and stop the run (not saying he is - not watched enough tape yet) then that is invaluable...especially when you hardly blitz.

I played corner. Trust me a lot of times the difference between a first round corner and the second or third round corner is the kind of pass rush they played around(it’s why Ohio State Corners always get drafted high). I’m not disrespecting any first round corners and of course there are anomalies but if you are able to build a super line upfront you’re able to draft day two guys and even sometimes day three guys And they will play really well. 
 

Another important thing is on our team the problem is that we don’t stop the run. Part of that is Corey littleton part of that is our defensive line is not really designed to stop the run. Jordan Davis I think would help us in both stopping the run and he looks to have the athleticism to grow as a pass rusher with the type of pass rush that we have.  I mean right now he’s already a better pass rusher than Jonathan hankins so he would immediately help us. 

[Frankie2Gunz]

2 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

Well I mean it’s not like Max Crosby and Yannick slouches either(don’t look now but they’ve been a better path rush deal than Pierre Paul and Barrett this year)

And like I’ve mentioned before if we bring two out of the three defensive tackles that we have(or really just Solomon Thomas) to go along with Jordan Davis that’s actually a really good. I think Davis is going to be one of those NTs that test really well which means he has potential to be able to rush the passer. Players like that are good oline‘s like ours. 

What you said about run stuffing NTs being found in FA for cheap is true but I actually think Jordan Davis has a potential to be a good pass rushing NT which there are only like three of in the NFL.

Yes Hayward is 33 next year but he’s also not allowed to touchdown all season. I think that’s worth a look for next year while you may draft some second or third rounder to play behind him. Trevon mullen is actually good with a pass rush(As most corners are).  Fayscon too. If you’re not able to resign Hayward I think you go Fayscon and Mullen and draft a corner. Corner has not been the problem this year they’ve actually been one of the strengths.

Our real problems personally wise are:

1. We don’t have a linebacker that can both cover and play the run well. It’s one or the other. Because of this team to figure it out but you don’t even really have to deal with the corners you just need to throw at the linebackers and run the ball. That’s why we lose teams were the quarterback thrown for less than 200 yards multiple times this season. I think a nose tackle with pass rush ability helps the run which makes the team have to pass. As well as an all-around linebacker. 

2. Carr starting to play like pre-Gruden where he gets flustered and just all of the ball up. this is led to a lot of turnovers and failed third down conversions which puts of the defense back on the field. Now I can understand part of that may be losing your 4.2 running receiver that can Highpoint the ball(there’s not very many of those I’ve ever even seen) midseason but the fact still remains. No I don’t think we get rid of Carr(I don’t believe in getting rid of a quarterback just because plus there’s nobody better than Carr that we would be able to get) but I do think we need to see if we can get him a bona fide receiver on the outside to go with a Waller. He also needs to flat out play better. 
 

 

 

I agree on most of this.  We certainly need a stud, sideline to sideline LB.  Carr does need to play better but we can both agree he is playing with a terrible WR corp now that Ruggs is gone, terrible Oline, no run game and not a good D.  Carr is not the issue with this franchise being a dumpster fire.  

Davis has averaged 1.5 sacks over his college career and I am not expecting much more than that at the pro level.  He should be a very good pro but his inability to rush the passer will likely have him as a two down, run stuffing space eater.  There is value in that but not top 15 value.  

Gardner has all the tools to be a lockdown stud and plays a premium position where we have very little proven talent.  Hayward has been good this year but as I said he will be 33 next season, it's time to find a lockdown stud in their early 20's to replace him.  Gardner can be that guy from everything I have seen. 

We also need a stud WR to help this O out, I feel like we need two WR's to put everyone in their proper positions.  WR1, WR2, Renfrow in the slot and Edwards as the number 4 and fill in for depth would be a nice corp.  Finding the #1 and 2 (Ruggs was the perfect 2 with the speed and hands combination and could have developed into a 1 if he would have honed his route running) but a #1 in the mold of Julio in his prime combined with a Ruggs type #2 would be deadly!

Edited November 24, 2021 by Frankie2Gunz

[Jeremy408]

25 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

I agree on most of this.  We certainly need a stud, sideline to sideline LB.  Carr does need to play better but we can both agree he is playing with a terrible WR corp now that Ruggs is gone, terrible Oline and run game and not a good D and is not the issue with this franchise.  

Davis has averaged 1.5 sacks over his college career and I am not expecting much more than that at the pro level.  He should be a very good pro but his inability to rush the passer will likely have him as a two down, run stuffing space eater.  There is value in that but not top 15 value.  

Gardner has all the tools to be a lockdown stud and plays a premium position where we have very little proven talent.  Hayward has been good this year but as I said he will be 33 next season, it's time to find a lockdown stud in their early 20's to replace him.  Gardner can be that guy from everything I have seen. 

We also need a stud WR to help this O out, I feel like we need two WR's to put everyone in their proper positions.  WR1, WR2, Renfrow in the slot and Edwards as the number 4 and fill in for depth would be a nice corp.  Finding the #1 and 2 (Ruggs was the perfect 2 with the speed and hands combination and could have developed into a 1 if he would have honed his route running) but a #1 in the mold of Julio in his prime combined with a Ruggs type #2 would be deadly!

Dont get me wrong. I do agree that people need to get open and it is a huge blow when you lose someone who runs 4.2 and jumps 42 feet in the air. I also think it would help if the run game was better. But I don't think the defense is bad. Feel like this year is the reverse of last year how in the defense was horrible(Bring up 30 points a game) people would blame Carr Gruden and the Redzone. This year when the offense can't score, people blame the defense for not holding them forever.

I think the reality is that this defense wasn't designed for teams to be close enough in the score to where they still be able to run the ball on them. From a personnel standpoint, the defense is clearly designed to stop the pass because the team becomes one dimensional because our offense is scoring so many points. In other words, this defense was designed to complement last year's offense and the way our office was playing before we lost Ruggs.

Think about this: We've lost 3 games where the quarterback threw for less than 150 yards(for games where the quarterback at less than 230 yards). It's basically showing that you don't need to throw the ball to beat us. You need to run the ball and play very good defense to keep the game close. The reality is we need to score points. 

Again, I completely get what you're saying about value. But if there's not a clear bona fide linebacker that can do both the run and the pass, I think it makes more sense to get a Jordan Davis player who has the athleticism to grow as a pass rusher and it's already a better pass rusher than the nose tackle that we have and probably a better run stuffer then we have as well. While keeping Quinton Jefferson and Solomon Thomas we can have one of those super lines where teams won't be able to run or pass. I haven't been in this position in years. 

Also corner is my favorite position because I played corner so I'm actually biased to the position lol. With that being said, I actually think we're in a favorable position at corner where because of how good our part rush is we don't really need a star corner. We really just need to be able to keep Hayward for another year or two and draft a corner in the second or third round to learn behind him for that time. And or keep Fayscon for the same amount of time and do the exact same thing. 

If we keep Carr(which is what I think we should do), I would like to see us sign a receiver (Like a Davante Adams or Allen Robinson) rather than draft one in the 1st round. Thing that might be a pretty decent idea is to try to get Will fuller for cheap(problem with that but is he won't stay healthy)

 

Edited November 24, 2021 by Jeremy408

[Frankie2Gunz]

1 hour ago, Jeremy408 said:

Dont get me wrong. I do agree that people need to get open and it is a huge blow when you lose someone who runs 4.2 and jumps 42 feet in the air. I also think it would help if the run game was better. But I don't think the defense is bad. Feel like this year is the reverse of last year how in the defense was horrible(Bring up 30 points a game) people would blame Carr Gruden and the Redzone. This year when the offense can't score, people blame the defense for not holding them forever.

I think the reality is that this defense wasn't designed for teams to be close enough in the score to where they still be able to run the ball on them. From a personnel standpoint, the defense is clearly designed to stop the pass because the team becomes one dimensional because our offense is scoring so many points. In other words, this defense was designed to complement last year's offense and the way our office was playing before we lost Ruggs.

Think about this: We've lost 3 games where the quarterback threw for less than 150 yards(for games where the quarterback at less than 230 yards). It's basically showing that you don't need to throw the ball to beat us. You need to run the ball and play very good defense to keep the game close. The reality is we need to score points. 

Again, I completely get what you're saying about value. But if there's not a clear bona fide linebacker that can do both the run and the pass, I think it makes more sense to get a Jordan Davis player who has the athleticism to grow as a pass rusher and it's already a better pass rusher than the nose tackle that we have and probably a better run stuffer then we have as well. While keeping Quinton Jefferson and Solomon Thomas we can have one of those super lines where teams won't be able to run or pass. I haven't been in this position in years. 

Also corner is my favorite position because I played corner so I'm actually biased to the position lol. With that being said, I actually think we're in a favorable position at corner where because of how good our part rush is we don't really need a star corner. We really just need to be able to keep Hayward for another year or two and draft a corner in the second or third round to learn behind him for that time. And or keep Fayscon for the same amount of time and do the exact same thing. 

If we keep Carr(which is what I think we should do), I would like to see us sign a receiver (Like a Davante Adams or Allen Robinson) rather than draft one in the 1st round. Thing that might be a pretty decent idea is to try to get Will fuller for cheap(problem with that but is he won't stay healthy)

 

While I do agree with a lot of what you're saying the one thing I don't agree with is Davis' ability to grow into a pass rusher.  He is 6'6 330 (which is being generous, he looks closer to 350) and will be a beast in the run game but I highly question his ability to both rush the passer and stay on the field for all three downs. 

Gardner looks to be a stud who can shut down #1 WR's and cause turnovers.  Our DB's don't really have a nose for the ball as they don't create turnovers and as I have pointed out that Hayward is going to be 33 and we have nothing close to elite behind him. 

I also feel that NT value can be had later or in FA.  Davis is undoubtedly the cream of the crop in this class as a NT but projects as run stuffer with limited rush ability, I just don't see the value there in the top 15.  

I do love the idea of Adams and Fuller if we can get Fuller on the cheap.  That would round out the WR corp very nicely especially if Fuller can stay on the field.  

[Jeremy408]

5 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

While I do agree with a lot of what you're saying the one thing I don't agree with is Davis' ability to grow into a pass rusher.  He is 6'6 330 (which is being generous, he looks closer to 350) and will be a beast in the run game but I highly question his ability to both rush the passer and stay on the field for all three downs. 

Gardner looks to be a stud who can shut down #1 WR's and cause turnovers.  Our DB's don't really have a nose for the ball as they don't create turnovers and as I have pointed out that Hayward is going to be 33 and we have nothing close to elite behind him. 

I also feel that NT value can be had later or in FA.  Davis is undoubtedly the cream of the crop in this class as a NT but projects as run stuffer with limited rush ability, I just don't see the value there in the top 15.  

I do love the idea of Adams and Fuller if we can get Fuller on the cheap.  That would round out the WR corp very nicely especially if Fuller can stay on the field.  

stuff like this is where I get the idea that he can rush the passer

I have no problem with Ahmad Gardner game personally. my thing is this:

We already have a sample size on If elite CB play leads to more winning football. and now Casey Hayward has been playing with football and hasn’t even given up a touchdown but teams are finding ways to score via running the ball and passing on the linebackers. It’s less about gardener and it’s more about does that really help us right now. 

[Frankie2Gunz]

6 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

stuff like this is where I get the idea that he can rush the passer

I have no problem with Ahmad Gardner game personally. my thing is this:

We already have a sample size on If elite CB play leads to more winning football. and now Casey Hayward has been playing with football and hasn’t even given up a touchdown but teams are finding ways to score via running the ball and passing on the linebackers. It’s less about gardener and it’s more about does that really help us right now. 

It's not about helping right now, this team is devoid of talent and will most likely be going though a rebuild with a new GM/HC.  There is no elite talent on this team and sadly that is a fact.  It's all about building for the future and that starts by acquiring top young talent at key positions.  

I am all for building in the trenches and if Davis was the same caliber player as a 3T, who can get after the QB, I would be willing to listen but he is not.  He is a 350LB ,two down, run stuffing, NT.

Gardner appears to be a 21 year old stud CB to build your D around.  I would take him all day over a NT even one who appears to be very good like Davis.  

[NYRaider]

14 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

He has all the skills to do so.  Just like I said last year when I wanted Horn or Surtain with our 1st picks.  Gardner has all of the skills to be a lockdown number 1 and you take a chance on that over a run stuffing NT any day of the week and twice on Sunday!

Our run defense has been absolutely terrible this season while our secondary has held up well playing mainly backup level players we signed off the streets throughout the year. I wouldn't mind Gardner or Davis though we just need as much talent as possible. Although I think Davis has a higher floor then Gardner as at the very least he will be a good run stuffer based on his size and athleticism alone. We've seen so many CB's taken early end up as busts in recent years.