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Are the N.Y. Giants on the rise, or in football purgatory?


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7 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

You can legit say this about every team that is not the Texans or Lions. Literally. I’m sure the Eagles and Bengals fans for example will ask you the same question right now. And also, more than 5 teams will finish with 5 or less wins. 6 minimum, and probably 7-8. 
 

- I’m not a believer in Daniel Jones. Don’t like your WR core. Don’t like your OC. Don’t like your secondary (Adoree Jackson is average, and I was not high on McKinney what so ever in the draftC he is slower than dirt), and the roster in general is not that good. 
 

- Cowboys have Dak back. 
 

- Washington has a Top 3 Defense in the NFL and Fitzpatrick blows any QB they had last year out of the water. Not even close. 
 

- You guys face the AFC West. Easily all four teams better than the Giants on paper. 1-3 there at best. 

- Face the NFC South. About even with Carolina on paper, the other three teams clearly have better rosters. Another situation where I see 1-3 at best.
 


 

 

 

 

I don't agree with your reasons but you at least have some.  

I don't believe our HC likes our OC which is the reason why he has two people that are going to assist our OC with our offense.

Even if Adoree is an average CB, with our defense he will be asked to cover the #2 wideout, he should be able to handle that. 

We are the team that knocked Dak out for the season, I don't see this defense fearing any offense in our division.

We are getting Saquon back.

This team is three safety deep, if Mckinney is not having a good game we have two other safeties we can depend on.

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15 minutes ago, Go_Giants said:

I don't agree with your reasons but you at least have some.  

I don't believe our HC likes our OC which is the reason why he has two people that are going to assist our OC with our offense.

Even if Adoree is an average CB, with our defense he will be asked to cover the #2 wideout, he should be able to handle that. 

We are the team that knocked Dak out for the season, I don't see this defense fearing any offense in our division.

We are getting Saquon back.

This team is three safety deep, if Mckinney is not having a good game we have two other safeties we can depend on.

I don't think any football team fears any other football team.. but that doesn't mean they are good.

It's mostly just me going through the schedule... very possible Cowboys could sweep you guys and you go 2-4, but I wouldn't be shocked with a 3-3 division record and a split with everyone. And then I see 1-3 vs the AFC West. You will def lose to Kansas City, and probably upset one of: Chargers, Broncos, or Raiders. Then I also see 1-3 vs the NFC South. Probably a win over Carolina. Then I would expect losses to the Rams, Bears, and Dolphins, three teams who I think are all playoff teams this season. 

That would still put you at 5-12 if you split with all three teams in the division. 

However, don't get me wrong, I do think 8-9 is your guy's ceiling and my opinion is just an opinion. 

Edited by BayRaider
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It's very possible DJ is not the answer, but I think the Giants are far from purgatory. They have the capital to move up and reset their QB situation if they need to next year. They have an extremely young roster and a young, seemingly capable head coach. They showed very promising signs of improvement the 2nd half of last year.

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On 5/12/2021 at 9:35 AM, minutemancl said:

It's very possible DJ is not the answer, but I think the Giants are far from purgatory. They have the capital to move up and reset their QB situation if they need to next year. They have an extremely young roster and a young, seemingly capable head coach. They showed very promising signs of improvement the 2nd half of last year.

I agree. Purgatory for me wouldn't be a realistic description unless Jones doesn't show significant improvement or fails to improve at all AND the Giants commit to him with a contract paying him as even a mid level starter (20 million a year type money). That would put them squarely in purgatory. 

Right now they are just a team with a young QB, a young HC, some real areas of strengths, and some question marks. Purgatory comes when some of those questions get resounding answers of average ability and you pay them highly to develop into more than they have shown capable. 

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On 5/12/2021 at 8:35 AM, minutemancl said:

It's very possible DJ is not the answer, but I think the Giants are far from purgatory. They have the capital to move up and reset their QB situation if they need to next year.

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Surely if DJ is not the answer and they have to use up capital to move up again for another QB, THAT would be purgatory? I happen to think DJ is good enough if they keep improving elsewhere, they'll start making playoffs.

Playoffs?!

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Posted (edited)

I don’t like Daniel Jones, but I have more faith in them to win the division more than I do Washington & clearly Dallas.

 

 

I’m not drinking the Washington koolaid.

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On 5/10/2021 at 9:05 PM, Awsi Dooger said:

I don't know how you spend a high first round pick on a quarterback who averaged 6.4 yards per attempt in college. Granted, quarterback position is difficult to translate but that number is so low it basically screams at lack of sufficient upside. Jones has played to his past performance chart, averaging basically the same thing in the NFL. It's the reasons all the analytics guys were literally laughing when Jones was picked that high. 

Fortunately for Daniel Jones, he does have legs, and the league does not spit out quarterbacks of that level so decisively anymore. The rules allow him to hang around and regulate the Giants. 

I'm in Ireland so don't get much of any news on college football and could just never get into it - not because of the differences, but because the game times can often be highly restrictive with my schedule... so thanks for the info re Jones. 

I think it kind of nails what I have seen of him too - a guy who has not hit the ground running and who just seems to have a very low upside for where he was taken. I'm usually quite supportive of sticking with a QB for a while to let them develop, but there are also times when the 'it factor' just isn't there. An example of someone with tonnes of 'it' that needed to tiem put it together was Josh Allen - his numbers and consistency were poor early on but there were times when you could just see the sky high potential. That's not there for Jones in my opinion. 

I think he could have a fine career as a backup/stopgap starter, but I just don't see anything beyond that for him really. The epitome of sunk cost fallacy seen on first round picks (especially at the QB position) that can plague teams from time to time.

I would rate Jones higher, but Blake Bortles was another example where a team just kept playing him in the hopes that the fact he was taken in the first would somehow make him get better with time. Had either been taken in the 3rd or after they would have very likely not made it more than 16 games and even if the person replacing them been poor they would have only got a brief 2nd chance to reclaim it in 'dead' games at the end of a season. Instead, for no other reason than where they were initially taken, their teams struggle onwards with them. Like I said, sink cost fallacy. 

And once the backlash properly hits, the reaction will likely be voer the top as well with many defending him at present close to guaranteed to take every chance to pile on and claim he should barely be in the league at all (aimed more at sports journalists rather than fans who by design of the tribal nature of sports are largely going to be reactionary).

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On 5/10/2021 at 10:39 PM, Gmen said:

Running backs are not a good investment in today's NFL.  In hindsight, Saquon at #2 was a bad pick.  You should not draft a running back until the 3rd or 4th round.

The vast, vast majority of the time I would agree. However I would put Barkley in with the extremely rare exceptions along with McCaffrey from all the ways they can scare a defense and force them to change tact. If Barkley avoided injuries and didn't even develop but just carried on at his rookie form, he would be on (admittedly very early) track for a HOF career. 

That said specifically for the Giants on that pick you may be right as a RB taken that high should mean you have other premium positions in order (or none available at them that high in the draft), which the giants did not at that point if I recall. 

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On 5/11/2021 at 1:30 AM, BayRaider said:

You can legit say this about every team that is not the Texans or Lions. Literally. Every team makes strides and gets better, every year. I’m sure Eagles and Bengals fans for example will ask you the same question right now and also be offended with your prediction. And also, more than 5 teams will finish with 5 or less wins. 6 minimum, and probably 7-8. 
 

- I’m not a believer in Daniel Jones. Don’t like your WR core. Don’t like your OC. Don’t like your secondary (Adoree Jackson is average, and I was not high on McKinney what so ever in the draft, he is slower than dirt), and the roster in general is not that good. 
 

- Cowboys have Dak back. 
 

- Washington has a Top 3 Defense in the NFL and Fitzpatrick blows any QB they had last year out of the water. Not even close. 
 

- You guys face the AFC West. Easily all four teams better than the Giants on paper. 1-3 there at best. 

- Face the NFC South. About even with Carolina on paper, the other three teams clearly have better rosters. Another situation where I see 1-3 at best.
 

I’m far from an optimistic Giants fan yet I think this is a very bad take especially if you’re judging off paper lol. 1-3 at best vs AFC West and NFC South? Wow. 
 

Cowboys have Dak but that defense has very little talent there. Washington great defense but no way in heck am I trusting a 40 year old Fitzpatrick (or however old He is) over the course of a 17 game season. 
 

AFC West - the only team on paper that are clearly better than us are the chiefs. You’re laughably confident to think that the remaining 3 teams are somehow better than us. NFC South, only Saints and Bucs are better. 

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BayRaider pretty much nailed it. 

The offense should improve noticeably from 26th (DVOA) but I'm not convinced the defense can stick at 19th. 

7 wins seems about right.  They're on the right track but their positional schedules are difficult in 2021.

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