NCOUGHMAN Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Frankie2Gunz said: Comeback wins are not 100 percent on a QB, attributing W/L's solely on a QB in any fashion is ridiculous. How is that not obvious? Cool just making sure 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 19 hours ago, NYRaider said: Of course not but Moon balled out and took Houston to 8 straight playoff berths while earning an MVP along the way. He also finished his career with a winning record despite being over the hump at like 43 playing on bad teams. These Carr stans will do anything to nut hug him, it's sad. Carr hasnt finished his Career though. . . who knows what would happen if Carr was traded to NE or SF. Hes been on 1 pretty brutal team his entire career. To put all the losses on Carr is wild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 4 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said: These guys just don't get it and hijack every thread. I suppose I take the bait and get involved so I am not some innocent victim Now I am going to lure you in! What's your stance on wins solely being attributed to a QB? I hope we make the playoffs this upcoming season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 23 hours ago, drfrey13 said: Although I do not think he will do much better but maybe using top ten in different stats would be better. If you are having a GOAT argument then maybe leading the league is a good measurement. Top 10 in passing yards: 1 Top 10 in passing TD: 2 Top 10 in turnovers: 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 5 hours ago, BackinBlack said: QB is the most important single position, but the team as a whole means more than the QB. IE the other 21 starters combined, make more impact then the 1 QB. Giving a QB all the credit is dumb, but it 'sells' so people use it I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that the quarterback touches the ball every play while other positions don't. The same goes for pitchers getting W/L, it's because they're the only player on the team that has the ball every single play that they're on the field. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 1 hour ago, NYRaider said: I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that the quarterback touches the ball every play while other positions don't. The same goes for pitchers getting W/L, it's because they're the only player on the team that has the ball every single play that they're on the field. Quarterbacks only play offense, not defense or special teams. So he technically doesn't touch the ball every play. The moment our defense hits the field the QB loses responsibility for making sure the team wins. The responsibility is then placed on the defense. If DC played with a top 10 scoring defense his entire career, or maybe with the same HC his entire career (instead of like 4-5 different HCs, OCs, etc.) he'd probably have a winning record. The Raiders have wasted his above average career by shuffling coaches and putting garbage defenses on the field year after year. Also, don't pitchers get subbed out all the time in baseball games? I don't watch baseball at all really, but don't they sub out pitchers between and during innings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, Jerry said: I hope we make the playoffs this upcoming season. Tell me about it, it's been a rough two decades. Vegas odds for us to win the SB are +7000 which is the sixth worst in the NFL. Basically they think that we still have a terrible roster. PFF also just released an article that has us ranked 26th. A lot of players have to step up if we are to make the playoffs and while I hope they do, I'm not holding my breath. https://raiderswire.usatoday.com/2021/07/01/pff-names-raiders-roster-among-the-worst-in-nfl/ Edited July 5, 2021 by Frankie2Gunz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 14 minutes ago, Jerry said: Quarterbacks only play offense, not defense or special teams. So he technically doesn't touch the ball every play. The moment our defense hits the field the QB loses responsibility for making sure the team wins. The responsibility is then placed on the defense. If DC played with a top 10 scoring defense his entire career, or maybe with the same HC his entire career (instead of like 4-5 different HCs, OCs, etc.) he'd probably have a winning record. The Raiders have wasted his above average career by shuffling coaches and putting garbage defenses on the field year after year. Also, don't pitchers get subbed out all the time in baseball games? I don't watch baseball at all really, but don't they sub out pitchers between and during innings? I've always said if Carr was on the Bears they would be an annual playoff team that would also be going deep into the playoffs. It's a shame that we have never been able to see what Carr can really do because he has been burdened by a terrible HC/GM combination since he arrived here. Terrible drafting and FA signings have put us near the bottom of the league YOY in terms of talent. It all starts with the draft which we have failed miserably at. We desperately need an influx of elite talent and while we have had the draft capital for that influx RM, MM and Gruden all have failed the Raider Nation miserably. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 6 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said: I've always said if Carr was on the Bears they would be an annual playoff team that would also be going deep into the playoffs. It's a shame that we have never been able to see what Carr can really do because he has been burdened by a terrible HC/GM combination since he arrived here. Terrible drafting and FA signings have put us near the bottom of the league YOY in terms of talent. It all starts with the draft which we have failed miserably at. We desperately need an influx of elite talent and while we have had the draft capital for that influx RM, MM and Gruden all have failed the Raider Nation miserably. I agree with most of this but Carr on a team like Chicago would not be a good fit. First he would have no were near the same support on offense and until he proves otherwise he would fail miserably once the weather changes. A dome team in a cold weather city would be fine but in Chicago he would have to many sub 40 degree temp games and then have to perform in the playoffs. A team like the Colts would be a much better fit. Cold weather city but in a dome and your division teams will not have weather extremes as much. Plus it is a weaker division. Indy could put up enough points with Carr to force Tannehill to beat them instead of Henry beating them up in the 4th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 14 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said: Tell me about it, it's been a rough two decades. Vegas odds for us to win the SB are +7000 which is the sixth worst in the NFL. Basically they think that we still have a terrible roster. PFF also just released an article that has us ranked 26th. A lot of players have to step up if we are to make the playoffs and while I hope they do, I'm not holding my breath. https://raiderswire.usatoday.com/2021/07/01/pff-names-raiders-roster-among-the-worst-in-nfl/ Yeah it's ugly. I think Ngakoue and C. Littleton aren't getting the respect they deserve when it comes to the impact they can have on our defense if they play as well as they have in the past. I think C. Hayward rebounding from last season could have a very positive impact on our defense as well. We'll see what happens. I think our OG/C/RT unknowns and the lack of a real DT on our DL other than maybe Q. Jefferson is why our roster is ranked so low. That and the fact that Ruggs and Edwards didn't really produce much last season. I think our roster is better than 26th though. Probably closer to 20 IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 14 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said: I've always said if Carr was on the Bears they would be an annual playoff team that would also be going deep into the playoffs. It's a shame that we have never been able to see what Carr can really do because he has been burdened by a terrible HC/GM combination since he arrived here. Terrible drafting and FA signings have put us near the bottom of the league YOY in terms of talent. It all starts with the draft which we have failed miserably at. We desperately need an influx of elite talent and while we have had the draft capital for that influx RM, MM and Gruden all have failed the Raider Nation miserably. I think the same. DC with a top 10 defense and he has a winning record year after year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 16 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said: I've always said if Carr was on the Bears they would be an annual playoff team that would also be going deep into the playoffs. It's a shame that we have never been able to see what Carr can really do because he has been burdened by a terrible HC/GM combination since he arrived here. Terrible drafting and FA signings have put us near the bottom of the league YOY in terms of talent. It all starts with the draft which we have failed miserably at. We desperately need an influx of elite talent and while we have had the draft capital for that influx RM, MM and Gruden all have failed the Raider Nation miserably. You never know you’re a champion or are surrounded by champions until you win a championship. Real leaders can convince/influence people to believe and play like champions. If we have to wait for the team to be perfect to win we’ll be waiting forever. How many times has Brady won chips with guys you’ve never heard of Wes welkers, Edelman etc. I think our main issue is we have no leaders, we have no standards, no expectations no accountability. We could have a god roster and still fall short because the culture is toxic. To me leadership starts at that qb spot esp if the qb is getting paid the most. You can be a god qb but if you can’t be a leader you’ll always fall short. Unless the defense is the $ group then qbs don’t matter see Trent dilfer etc. Sure you can have a killer defense but that’s takes $ and one side will suffer usually the offensive side and vice versa. There hasn’t been a top 5 offense and defense super bowl champ since the 90’s. You’re usually strong on one end of the ball and shakey on the other. You gotta decide if you’re gonna be a defensive or offensive team. Whichever side has the least $ has got to have some overachieving moments to make it work. And the big $ side has got to be $ always no excuses. if your highest paid player is your qb then there’s expectations that come with that. If you don’t want those expectations to fall on the qb then get a rookie qb and invest in the defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBXISBXVSBXVIII Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 20 hours ago, NYRaider said: I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that the quarterback touches the ball every play while other positions don't. The same goes for pitchers getting W/L, it's because they're the only player on the team that has the ball every single play that they're on the field. Wrong....Catcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 1 hour ago, SBXISBXVSBXVIII said: Wrong....Catcher The catcher doesn't touch it every play, what if it's a wild pitch? The catcher also isn't dictating if the other guys hits the ball aka scores. Or the center in football would technically be credited for W/L since he touches it more than the QB, lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 2 hours ago, SBXISBXVSBXVIII said: Wrong....Catcher That’s why I argue center is the 2nd most important player on offense 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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