John Simpson Starting Right Guard

[MrOaktown_56]

29 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

I like Good at RT if we need him.  I know Leatherwood has played LT and RG which shows some versatility but the technique for RT is different and a combination of the two positions he has played.  I really hope they lined him up at RT sometime during the draft process and he was able to do it.  Even with a full offseason Penn who was a pro bowler the year before showed it is not that easy for everyone.  Just watch the highlights from the Rams game in 2018.  Penn looks uncoordinated, is on the ground a lot, and on the pick six you can see that his time at LT led him to be way out of position leaving a player to hurry Carr with his throw.  He was not absolute garbage the way Parker was I do not expect Leatherwood to look better than a pro bowl LT making the transition.  Maybe he will be fine but we are taking a big risk and I could see Leatherwood landing somewhere between Penn and Parker year one.

 

I highly doubt it. Parker just wasn't ready for the NFL game. Penn was old and had played on the left side so long he had issues with his groin/hip flexors. 

I think he'll be just fine.

[drfrey13]

3 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

I highly doubt it. Parker just wasn't ready for the NFL game. Penn was old and had played on the left side so long he had issues with his groin/hip flexors. 

I think he'll be just fine.

Penn was old but I think the position change led to the injury.  Penn was dominant the year before at LT.  Just watch the video and you will see a few times he gets his hands and feet mixed up.  Leatherwood should have better neuroplasticity than Penn so he does have that advantage to go along with playing RG but I think the difference is bigger for Leatherwood because it is a new position and transitioning to the league.  I could be wrong and we get this correct but that does not change the issue I have with Cable.  There is an easier approach to building a competent o-line and he should have been able to do it in less time without spending so much draft capital and money on it.  For all the praise Cable receives I believe he has hurt this team more than he has helped it.  That is why I would not keep him around and why I believe him being Gruden's personal boot licker is the reason why he has stayed.  If James, Simpson, and Leatherwood work out I will owe him an apology but right now he has failed more than he has succeeded.  All 3 players should be ready to contribute and be good with the time they have had or where they were drafted.

[MrOaktown_56]

2 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

Penn was old but I think the position change led to the injury.  Penn was dominant the year before at LT.  Just watch the video and you will see a few times he gets his hands and feet mixed up.  Leatherwood should have better neuroplasticity than Penn so he does have that advantage to go along with playing RG but I think the difference is bigger for Leatherwood because it is a new position and transitioning to the league.  I could be wrong and we get this correct but that does not change the issue I have with Cable.  There is an easier approach to building a competent o-line and he should have been able to do it in less time without spending so much draft capital and money on it.  For all the praise Cable receives I believe he has hurt this team more than he has helped it.  That is why I would not keep him around and why I believe him being Gruden's personal boot licker is the reason why he has stayed.  If James, Simpson, and Leatherwood work out I will owe him an apology but right now he has failed more than he has succeeded.  All 3 players should be ready to contribute and be good with the time they have had or where they were drafted.

I think cable has done a fine job. We’ll see this year.

[NCOUGHMAN]

17 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

Nobody said James would be a better RT Leatherwood.  It is more of a funny observation that Cable likes to play people without any experience at RT and chooses where people are going to play based upon measurables and not ability to play the position.  After seeing this over and over again I can almost guarantee Cable wanted nothing to do with Orlando Brown since he ran a 5.4+ 40 which is the measurables cutoff for success in the league for tackles.  At some point you have to look at the game tape and say this guy can do it.  Good thing somebody watched Renfrow's tape and Cable does not get to critique WRs.  Cable just gives measurables to much weight.  Everyone has their bias' but Cable makes to many mistakes and gets to much credit in my book.

I like leatherwood tape vs fla 2020 sec championship but just comes down to how quickly he can adjust to the right side. Bama didn’t really have any close tough games besides fla. An interview said kolt gave up 17 sacks rookie year. I don’t think carr can survive that again. 
 

btw I like Simpson even more than Ritchie rn. I think Ritchie is done 

[Turnobili]

i'm taking Richie's return to his 2019 form with a grain of salt, but i dont have anything to base it on either way... so at this point i dont know that i could defend the position of trusting Simpson more than Richie rn. its not like simpson balled out as a rookie the way gabe jackson did

fro what i've heard from gruden/mayock, my takeaway is that the plan is definitely to have Kolton - Richie - James - Simpson - Leatherwood on day 1, and they've talked about Good and Martin as fallback options.

we know Good's floor is higher than Simpson's so they must really believe in Simpson's development

Edited May 17, 2021 by Turnobili

[NCOUGHMAN]

15 minutes ago, Turnobili said:

i'm taking Richie's return to his 2019 form with a grain of salt, but i dont have anything to base it on either way... so at this point i dont know that i could defend the position of trusting Simpson more than Richie rn. its not like simpson balled out as a rookie the way gabe jackson did

fro what i've heard from gruden/mayock, my takeaway is that the plan is definitely to have Kolton - Richie - James - Simpson - Leatherwood on day 1, and they've talked about Good and Martin as fallback options.

we know Good's floor is higher than Simpson's so they must really believe in Simpson's development

Good better start 🤦🏽‍♂️ He’s arguably our best olinemen if Richie starts it’s witten all over again 

[Turnobili]

10 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Good better start 🤦🏽‍♂️ He’s arguably our best olinemen if Richie starts it’s witten all over again 

it depends on richie's recovery. 2019 richie is much better than anything we've seen from Good. im not so easily convinced that he's going to slide right back into 2019 form, so time will tell

good is a big/powerful dude, but he's not that athletic and almost looks clumsy at times. like yes, if he's able to lock horns with a guy, he can usually move them, but sometimes guys just slip off of him too easily. almost like he's a blubbery whale 

he was dominant against CLE, specifically. could definitely do a lot worse than Good. im just not sure which of Richie/Simpson is more vulnerable. i'd bet Simpson just because we havent seen it from him yet

Edited May 17, 2021 by Turnobili

[NCOUGHMAN]

23 minutes ago, Turnobili said:

it depends on richie's recovery. 2019 richie is much better than anything we've seen from Good. im not so easily convinced that he's going to slide right back into 2019 form, so time will tell

good is a big/powerful dude, but he's not that athletic and almost looks clumsy at times. like yes, if he's able to lock horns with a guy, he can usually move them, but sometimes guys just slip off of him too easily. almost like he's a blubbery whale 

he was dominant against CLE, specifically. could definitely do a lot worse than Good. im just not sure which of Richie/Simpson is more vulnerable. i'd bet Simpson just because we havent seen it from him yet

I hear you I don’t really think Ritchie is back to 2019 form but we shall see

[drfrey13]

2 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

I like leatherwood tape vs fla 2020 sec championship but just comes down to how quickly he can adjust to the right side. Bama didn’t really have any close tough games besides fla. An interview said kolt gave up 17 sacks rookie year. I don’t think carr can survive that again. 
 

btw I like Simpson even more than Ritchie rn. I think Ritchie is done 

That was my main concern.  LTs generally do fine transitioning to RT but it is not a sure thing and when you do it to a rookie you are increasing the chance for failure or increasing the time to get up to speed.  I do not think he will be Parker bad but I also do not think he will be good to start right away either.  Add to that a QB that struggles when he starts getting hit is not a recipe for success early in the year.  If anything I would play him in a position he is familiar with at RG and Good at RT so he gets a taste of the speed and strength difference.  If we have injuries and he is our best option at RT then of course you do it but if he starts out like Parker we might be without a competent Carr the rest of the year because he has some trust issues.  If Leatherwood has a hard time in the beginning it could start a chain reaction that derails the season.  I might just start the season with Mariota because he would be much better at handling pressure coming off the right side on a regular basis.  I think Incognito if fully healthy might be our best lineman but I doubt he is.  Unfortunately I think he might be done also which really hurts our depth.

[NYRaider]

On 5/17/2021 at 10:53 AM, NCOUGHMAN said:

I hear you I don’t really think Ritchie is back to 2019 form but we shall see

Based on Cable's comments I don't think Richie is a starter this year, he may not even make the team. I'd guess that the starting OL week 1 is: 

Miller - Simpson - James - Good - Leatherwood

[NYRaider]

On 5/17/2021 at 9:14 AM, NCOUGHMAN said:

I like leatherwood tape vs fla 2020 sec championship but just comes down to how quickly he can adjust to the right side. Bama didn’t really have any close tough games besides fla. An interview said kolt gave up 17 sacks rookie year. I don’t think carr can survive that again.  

One thing that I think will help Leatherwood transition to RT is that he started at RG during his sophomore season at Alabama. 

[Darbsk]

On 5/17/2021 at 6:23 PM, NCOUGHMAN said:

Good better start 🤦🏽‍♂️ He’s arguably our best olinemen if Richie starts it’s witten all over again 

What?!?!?! Richie Incognito along with Hudson was our best lineman in 2019 and something of a revelation. He was pulling like a 27 year old and playing at a Pro Bowl, almost All Pro level. Witten last year was like watching Al Michaels running routes out there 😁, possibly the slowest receiver I have ever seen.

If fully fit, Incognito will be our best OL man. Now, if you're saying he won't be fit that's a different argument altogether but having seen him first game last year looking as good as ever till injured I have no cause to think he'll suddenly fall off a cliff except for injury derailing him.

[NCOUGHMAN]

1 hour ago, Darbsk said:

What?!?!?! Richie Incognito along with Hudson was our best lineman in 2019 and something of a revelation. He was pulling like a 27 year old and playing at a Pro Bowl, almost All Pro level. Witten last year was like watching Al Michaels running routes out there 😁, possibly the slowest receiver I have ever seen.

If fully fit, Incognito will be our best OL man. Now, if you're saying he won't be fit that's a different argument altogether but having seen him first game last year looking as good as ever till injured I have no cause to think he'll suddenly fall off a cliff except for injury derailing him.

Yea 2019 was a couple years ago and he’s not getting any younger. Coming off a season ending injury ya I’d rather no put my money on him. I think good offers more upside than rich

Edited May 20, 2021 by NCOUGHMAN

[Darbsk]

37 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Yea 2019 was a couple years ago and he’s not getting any younger. Coming off a season ending injury ya I’d rather no put my money on him. I think good offers more upside than rich

But the question for me is if Incognito is fully fit do you think Good and Simpson will actually be better players? I'm very sure they'll be downgrades.........if he's fit.....

[NYRaider]

1 hour ago, Darbsk said:

But the question for me is if Incognito is fully fit do you think Good and Simpson will actually be better players? I'm very sure they'll be downgrades.........if he's fit.....

Richie was out of the league in 2018 and missed 16 games in 2019/2020. At 38 coming off of an Achilles injury I don't have a ton of faith in a guy that has played 14 games over the last 3 seasons.