Bill Lazor; The Plan To Develop Justin Fields

[Heinz D.]

23 minutes ago, Epyon said:

Teven Jenkins looks like a stud, but he's still a rookie, likewise I'd rather let Dalton (or even Foles) go out there and take the hits until we know we have the OL set.... ESPECIALLY if we end up with Rookies at both OT positions.

Hard to imagine, even with rookie growing pains, that Jenkins could be worse than Leno was last year.

We'll be watching closely...

[topwop1]

1 hour ago, dll2000 said:

@WindyCitymade same point above and I have made it before.  

Dalton, like Glennon, has to learn this offense.  Smith didn’t have to learn anything.  

If coaches are going to play Dalton they are going to have spend a lot of time with him.  

Time is finite.  And time is limited further by CBA.   Every minute spent on Dalton is a minute not spent on Fields.

You pour all your resources into Fields and just enough into Dalton that HE can be respectable back up.  Not vis a versa.  

But, but he needs to learn to take snaps under center.

 

 

 

The thing that you're missing though is that Dalton played under Lazor in Cincy and that definitely gives him a leg up on Fields, despite it being Nagy's offense.

I think it's highly unlikely that Fields will sit the whole year but I just think the team will wait for the right moment to put him into the lineup and it won't be week 1.  I'd say at least after week 2 vs Cincinnati aka the Dalton revenge game.

I just don't think Nagy and Pace will go back on their word that Dalton will be the starter even if it's only for a game or two.

Like others have pointed out they'll probably want to make sure that the OL is in sync first before risking putting Fields back there.

[topwop1]

5 hours ago, WindyCity said:

Mahomes is the exception.

True but no one's really believing that Fields isn't going to play at all this year, more so just that he won't start week 1

Lamar Jackson is a recent example of a guy who didn't start right away in his rookie year and I'd say he turned out ok

Heck even guys like Deshaun Watson and Josh Allen were not named starters heading into week 1 of their rookie years, although they did get inserted into the lineup pretty quickly

Fields will play this year.  People need to just let the process play out

[Sugashane]

4 hours ago, Heinz D. said:

Hard to imagine, even with rookie growing pains, that Jenkins could be worse than Leno was last year.

We'll be watching closely...

Agreed. At minimum he will have a much higher floor in the run game due to strength and physicality and a better anchor in the pass game. Idk about his technical game vs Leno but I've loved what I've seen of him and think he'll be an upgrade immediately overall. 

[soulman]

14 hours ago, abstract_thought said:

They repeatedly talked about being confident in Dalton, that they view Dalton and Foles as being "1st round picks", etc.

In the article Lazor says:

In essence: Andy is here to help us win games right now. Justin's job is to learn from Andy.

While Bill Lazor can say they viewed both Foles and Dalton as 1st round picks I believe it's important to interpret this in context.

Right or wrong I see it as saying anytime you bring in an experienced QB who can start for you day one that's as good as having a rookie 1st round pick you didn't have who could do the same.  The reality as we all know is that the skill levels of 1st round rookie QBs can vary dramatically.  Five rookie QBs were drafted this year.  Which ones will unseat their vet Bridge QB?  Which will spend the year "learning" from the bench?  Will any of them fail as Mitch did?

I think it goes hand in hand with saying that "in essence" Andy Dalton is here to win now or prove that he cannot.  It's not at all uncommon for NFL coaches to have more trust in a vet who may be able to operate their entire playbook or most of it than to go with a rookie who may initially require a far more scaled down version of it much like we needed to do with Mitch even in year four.  Once Fields has mastered enough of the offense he's gonna start.  We know this too.

Edited May 15, 2021 by soulman

[dll2000]

11 hours ago, topwop1 said:

The thing that you're missing though is that Dalton played under Lazor in Cincy and that definitely gives him a leg up on Fields, despite it being Nagy's offense.

I think it's highly unlikely that Fields will sit the whole year but I just think the team will wait for the right moment to put him into the lineup and it won't be week 1.  I'd say at least after week 2 vs Cincinnati aka the Dalton revenge game.

I just don't think Nagy and Pace will go back on their word that Dalton will be the starter even if it's only for a game or two.

Like others have pointed out they'll probably want to make sure that the OL is in sync first before risking putting Fields back there.

They keep saying Dalton is going to start.  At some point you have to believe them.

I am just saying it is stupid.

There is also this sense of honor.  Pace told Dalton he was going to get to start when he signed.  Presumably Dalton had at least one other offer.

Dalton probably gets at very least one game.  Or at least that is thinking at moment.

I think there is good chance that is going to change though.   Maybe even before first game.  I know how coaches think.  They have a plan, they have rehearsed this plan in their head a 1000x.   Then some kid transfers or a new kid shows up.  You set him aside at first, but he keeps doing things in practice you can’t ignore.  More he looks the part.  He is a little more muscley, he is a little faster, his ball has more zip. But you have known this other kid and he was the plan.   At some point you put the other kid in and then you wonder why you didn’t do it from jump.  

When Pace and Lazor are standing there on the grass with Dalton and Fields standing next to each other taking alternate reps ...  

LOL.  There is just no way.  Fields is huge.  His legs are huge.  He is very fast.  His ball has more zip.   

Just a matter of how long before one looks at other and says what the heck are we doing here?  

[WindyCity]

Dalton knows the business. He signed here for the money and because we were less likely to land a QB at 20 than others teams.

He will compete, set a much higher bar than Glennon and Foles, and he will lose. He will make 10 million and mentor the kid, Dalton knows this is his life now, he is no longer and guaranteed starter in the NFL.

[Superman(DH23)]

Hearing that Nagy is already noticing that the game isnt too fast for him...on day 1...you have to think at some point in TC they will just turn it over and say "we told you Justin would let us know when he is ready, and hes definitely ready".  I have a very consistent opinion on this.  Play the QB who gives you the best chance to win.  At some point, could be day 1, could be week 10, that QB will be Justin.  You cant lie to the players, when that time comes, they'll know it.  It will happen.  And I'm here for all of it.

[WindyCity]

14 minutes ago, Superman(DH23) said:

Hearing that Nagy is already noticing that the game isnt too fast for him...on day 1...you have to think at some point in TC they will just turn it over and say "we told you Justin would let us know when he is ready, and hes definitely ready".  I have a very consistent opinion on this.  Play the QB who gives you the best chance to win.  At some point, could be day 1, could be week 10, that QB will be Justin.  You cant lie to the players, when that time comes, they'll know it.  It will happen.  And I'm here for all of it.

But please done waste a ton of 1st team reps on Andy Dalton when you know that Fields should be starting.

Camp reps are worth 10x more than the half speed scout team practice reps during the season.

[soulman]

All I'm gonna add is to say slow down.  Be patient.  There are still some chinks in Fields armor especially in the areas of blitz/stunt recognition and hot reads that need to be ironed out.  And like most rookie QBs he'll see a ton of that stuff 'til he starts burning teams who do it to him.

He may be far closer to starting material than any other rookie QB we've had since leather helmets were in vogue but it's not as if he has nothing more he can learn through practice reps and being taught by vet QBs and Coaches.  We want him to become an All Pro but he doesn't have to be one the first time he steps on the field.  Give him time to adapt himself to the NFL games and it's nuances.

Damn, with some of you it's like you just got a new bike and you want to ride it before you even inflate the tires.

[WindyCity]

1 hour ago, soulman said:

All I'm gonna add is to say slow down.  Be patient.  There are still some chinks in Fields armor especially in the areas of blitz/stunt recognition and hot reads that need to be ironed out.  And like most rookie QBs he'll see a ton of that stuff 'til he starts burning teams who do it to him.

He may be far closer to starting material than any other rookie QB we've had since leather helmets were in vogue but it's not as if he has nothing more he can learn through practice reps and being taught by vet QBs and Coaches.  We want him to become an All Pro but he doesn't have to be one the first time he steps on the field.  Give him time to adapt himself to the NFL games and it's nuances.

Damn, with some of you it's like you just got a new bike and you want to ride it before you even inflate the tires.

He isn’t going to learn that stuff watching Andy Dalton is the point I think most of us are making.

[BeaReylo]

20 hours ago, topwop1 said:

The thing that you're missing though is that Dalton played under Lazor in Cincy and that definitely gives him a leg up on Fields, despite it being Nagy's offense.

I think it's highly unlikely that Fields will sit the whole year but I just think the team will wait for the right moment to put him into the lineup and it won't be week 1.  I'd say at least after week 2 vs Cincinnati aka the Dalton revenge game.

I just don't think Nagy and Pace will go back on their word that Dalton will be the starter even if it's only for a game or two.

Like others have pointed out they'll probably want to make sure that the OL is in sync first before risking putting Fields back there.

And Fields coming off the bench, at some point, gives the fans something to look forward to.  If things go bad under Dalton theres still the hope of Agent One stepping in with a cape and saving the day.  And yeah it would be fair to give Andy a shot against his old team so at least let him start against them. 

[Sugashane]

4 hours ago, soulman said:

All I'm gonna add is to say slow down.  Be patient.  There are still some chinks in Fields armor especially in the areas of blitz/stunt recognition and hot reads that need to be ironed out.  And like most rookie QBs he'll see a ton of that stuff 'til he starts burning teams who do it to him.

He may be far closer to starting material than any other rookie QB we've had since leather helmets were in vogue but it's not as if he has nothing more he can learn through practice reps and being taught by vet QBs and Coaches.  We want him to become an All Pro but he doesn't have to be one the first time he steps on the field.  Give him time to adapt himself to the NFL games and it's nuances.

Damn, with some of you it's like you just got a new bike and you want to ride it before you even inflate the tires.

Gotta agree with you Soul. I want to see Fields taking snaps as bad as anyone but until Nagy KNOWS Fields is prepared then  Dalton needs to start. If the OL is rocking it then you can make the move earlier too. But this is a career move were looking at, not just the first few games. 

 

He's in a better spot than Tru was his rookie year, but let Nagy make the decision when he starts. 

[JAF-N72EX]

3 hours ago, Sugashane said:

Gotta agree with you Soul. I want to see Fields taking snaps as bad as anyone but until Nagy KNOWS Fields is prepared then  Dalton needs to start. If the OL is rocking it then you can make the move earlier too. But this is a career move were looking at, not just the first few games. 

 

He's in a better spot than Tru was his rookie year, but let Nagy make the decision when he starts. 

I agree with both of you as well.  This is the best shot we have ever had at finally putting an end to this miserable QB run. Don't rush the process and mess him up by throwing him to wolves too soon and ruining it before it even gets started.  That's what preseason is for. Last year, before COVID, Nagy talked about the importance of preseason games and how much it means in terms of evaluation. Use this time to wisely to make the smarter decision.

I think we end up seeing a Lamar Jackson-esque approach.  They'll start Dalton to see if the offense can work well enough with him while Fields sits back and takes it all in. But if the team is say 5-5 and they feel like Dalton is holding the offense back and the team still has a chance at the playoffs then we see a switch after the week 10 bye. And I would be okay with this, just as long as Nagy and co truly feel like he's ready and are not just forcing him out there for the sake of saving their jobs and ruining Fields before he has a chance.

 

[JAF-N72EX]

7 hours ago, WindyCity said:

He isn’t going to learn that stuff watching Andy Dalton is the point I think most of us are making.

It's not about watching Andy Dalton. It's about letting him learn the offense and the speed of the game at his own pace.

Edited May 16, 2021 by JAF-N72EX