Bill Lazor; The Plan To Develop Justin Fields

[Heinz D.]

On 6/3/2021 at 4:50 PM, soulman said:

If Fields is truly winning the starters job in camp and there's no rational reason for holding him back wouldn't it be safe to assume he'll begin to get an ever increasing number of snaps with the 1st string?  Nagy may be stubborn but he's not stupid.

I'm not so sure about the "not stupid" part, but yeah, if it's obvious to everyone that Fields should be the starter (which is how these situations usually play out), then the decision becomes a no-brainer, and Fields will get more of the reps

On 6/8/2021 at 1:10 AM, JAF-N72EX said:

Says guy who swore up and down the Bears should have started Foles over Mitch last year lol.

They should have started Foles over Trubisky. All reports indicated the competition was fairly close. That should have meant that Foles got the nod, as Mitch...had not been good the season before. It's a pointless argument to have now, though. 

Edited June 13, 2021 by Heinz D.

[G08]

Bears rookie QB Justin Fields can learn from Andy Dalton without becoming him

The high end of Fields’ potential is far greater than what Dalton’s done throughout his career. But Dalton can still be a great tutor during Fields’ rookie season.

By Jason Lieser  Jun 12, 2021, 5:00am CDT

The Bears want Justin Fields to learn from Andy Dalton. They just don’t want him to become Dalton.

There’s a big difference between the two as coach Matt Nagy handles the tasks of getting Dalton ready to be his starter this season and developing Fields as the franchise quarterback the team has coveted for decades.

His template for this project is the one the Chiefs used with Alex Smith and Patrick Mahomes in 2017, when Nagy was the offensive coordinator under Andy Reid. In the same way that the Chiefs expected Mahomes to far exceed the high end of what they could get from Smith, the Bears need Fields — eventually — to be a lot better than Dalton.

“Justin’s going to be Justin, no doubt about it,” Nagy said when asked about the folly of trying to turn Fields into Dalton. “But they’re going to learn from each other, and the little things that I’m seeing in the meeting room and out here at practice, it really does remind me of [Smith and Mahomes].”

Nagy is confident that is the best path and would prefer to stick with Dalton for the entire season. It worked for Mahomes. It worked for Aaron Rodgers, who sat his first three seasons with the Packers. There are also examples of rookies — Justin Herbert and Baker Mayfield, just in the last few seasons — playing well right away.

Mahomes’ lone start as a rookie was a meaningless regular-season finale in which he threw for 284 yards with an interception and no touchdowns. He won the MVP the next season. Then he won the Super Bowl. Then he signed a $500 million contract.

“For him to be able to develop like that and learn from Alex and grow, he would probably tell you it was a pretty good thing,” Nagy said. “If he would have played sooner, would he have done what he did the following year? Maybe. We don’t know that. But I would guess it helped him.”

Dalton is a reasonable equivalent of Smith as the Bears try to replicate what the Chiefs did. He’s not great, but solid. Not explosive, but savvy. He’s trying to extend his own career, but happy to be a mentor.

The Bengals spent nine seasons trying to figure out if Dalton was good enough and, after a collective 87.5 passer rating and zero playoff wins, they ultimately decided he wasn’t. Even at his best, he wasn’t the dynamic threat that Fields is projected to be. Fields walked in the door with a superior deep ball and dangerous running ability, putting him miles ahead physically before his first step onto the practice field. Once he’s ready, the Bears want Fields playing a different game entirely.

Dalton, in his 11th season and a few months away from turning 34, is here to be safe and reliable. Those are useful qualities in a quarterback, but it will only take the Bears so far. Even if everything goes their way this season, it’s hard to imagine them doing better than a wild-card spot with Dalton starting.

There’s still purpose, though, in Fields studying his every move over the next several months. Plenty of Dalton’s knowledge is universal, and Fields can apply it in his own way.

“How are you responding to making a good play [versus] throwing an interception, per se?” Nagy said, beginning a checklist of rookie lessons for Fields. “The biggest thing that Justin can learn from Andy is just understanding the defenses that he’s seeing.

“So [Dalton is] going to help him grow . . . Justin, he’s got to see Andy’s cadence — what he’s doing with his voice inflection, the way he says ‘White 80,’ versus the way Justin says it at the line of scrimmage. And then, of course, how to handle teammates.”

Fields has already gotten a quick class on that last subject during organized team activities.

He and Dalton recently were in a meeting with Nagy and quarterbacks coach John DeFilippo as they broke down practice film. Nagy, DeFilippo, offensive coordinator Bill Lazor and various other assistants all have specific roles in the Fields project, as do Dalton and fellow veteran Nick Foles. DeFilippo zeroes in on mechanics, and on this particular clip, he disregarded a strong throw by Fields and harped on his faulty footwork instead.

When DeFilippo finished, Dalton turned to Fields and reassured him, “Hey, dude, that was a hell of a throw right there.”

That seems small, but it’s vital. Fields is 22 and spent the last several months hearing analysts and scouts nitpick his mechanics. It’s why he slid from being the consensus second-best quarterback in college football to being the fourth one drafted, going to the Bears at No. 11 overall.

To hear one of his new coaches pile it on, even if he’s correct, was probably daunting. To see Dalton — the man whose job he’s trying to take, no less — have his back had to help.

“For him, it’s all new,” Dalton said last week. “I’m trying to give him advice on certain things, how I would view certain plays, what I’d do with my eyes on certain things, different things that come with experience. I’m going into Year 11. I’ve had a lot of ball. I’m just trying to help him out as much as I can.”

All of that information is useful for Fields, and he’s capable of learning from Dalton’s play without mimicking it. He can take the tools Dalton gives him and build a completely different house, just like Mahomes did.

[G08]

Pretty good read and it got me thinking about Alex Smith vs. Andy Dalton in terms of their experience and production in the NFL as they went into a season being a mentor yet still being a starter.

Alex Smith: 158 starts (including playoffs)  Andy Dalton: 146 starts (including playoffs)

The statistical production I'm going to provide below does not include playoff production

Alex Smith
4613 attempts, 62.4% completion, 31888 yards, 183 TDs, 96 INT, 4.0% TD, 2.1% INT, 6.9 YPA, 87.4 rating

Andy Dalton
4782 attempts, 62.2% completion, 33764 yards, 218 TDs, 126 INTs, 4.6% TD, 2.6% INT, 7.1 YPA, 87.5 rating

These two are stupidly similar in their career production.

Edited June 13, 2021 by G08

[JAF-N72EX]

32 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

They should have started Foles over Trubisky.

No they shouldn't have. The offense was much better with Mitch, as shown last season.

Foles is garbage. Some of you were vastly overrating him just because he caught lightening in a bottle for a handful of games in 2017 while playing with a stacked deck.

 

35 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

All reports indicated the competition was fairly close.

There was never any competition due to covid and several other reasons.

Besides, Pace was never going to give up on Mitch that easy. Mitch already knew the playbook.....Foles didn't. Mitch had already established a rapport with the OL and skill players...... Foles didn't.

Nagy's offense works better with a mobile QB and Mitch is far superior in this regard. It's hard to run a system built around RPOs with a statue like Foles in the backfield.

It was obvious Mitch was going to start, which is why I shook my head anytime some of you fans and beat writers swore Foles was going to start.

[Heinz D.]

2 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said:

There was never any competition due to covid and several other reasons.

https://www.chicagobears.com/news/bears-face-tough-decision-in-choosing-no-1-qb

2 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said:

Besides, Pace was never going to give up on Mitch that easy. 

That's what it boiled down to. 

[JAF-N72EX]

1 hour ago, G08 said:

His template for this project is the one the Chiefs used with Alex Smith and Patrick Mahomes in 2017, when Nagy was the offensive coordinator under Andy Reid. In the same way that the Chiefs expected Mahomes to far exceed the high end of what they could get from Smith, the Bears need Fields — eventually — to be a lot better than Dalton.

“Justin’s going to be Justin, no doubt about it,” Nagy said when asked about the folly of trying to turn Fields into Dalton. “But they’re going to learn from each other, and the little things that I’m seeing in the meeting room and out here at practice, it really does remind me of [Smith and Mahomes].”

1 hour ago, G08 said:

“For him to be able to develop like that and learn from Alex and grow, he would probably tell you it was a pretty good thing,” Nagy said. “If he would have played sooner, would he have done what he did the following year? Maybe. We don’t know that. But I would guess it helped him.”

I like the approach they're taking with Fields. They're not rushing him and letting him ease into the process at his own Pace.

 

[Heinz D.]

50 minutes ago, G08 said:

Pretty good read and it got me thinking about Alex Smith vs. Andy Dalton in terms of their experience and production in the NFL as they went into a season being a mentor yet still being a starter.

Alex Smith: 158 starts (including playoffs)  Andy Dalton: 146 starts (including playoffs)

The statistical production I'm going to provide below does not include playoff production

Alex Smith
4613 attempts, 62.4% completion, 31888 yards, 183 TDs, 96 INT, 4.0% TD, 2.1% INT, 6.9 YPA, 87.4 rating

Andy Dalton
4782 attempts, 62.2% completion, 33764 yards, 218 TDs, 126 INTs, 4.6% TD, 2.6% INT, 7.1 YPA, 87.5 rating

These two are stupidly similar in their career production.

I wouldn't have guessed that...but I can't say it surprises me much, either. The weird thing about Nagy's plan (as it stands right now) is that Mahomes was coming out of a very heavily college style, spread offense, and Fields is not. Mahomes also played against weaker defenses, and, all that stuff combined got pretty much all the football folks thinking Mahomes should sit, at least for a while. None of that applies to Fields. People pointed to him as being a potential day one starter (along with Lawrence and Trask). Ohio State even ran plays similar to what the Bears do.

[G08]

@Heinz D.all excellent points, but I will always go back to wanting to ease a child into the shallow end of the pool before throwing them into the deep end (where they have no concept of water, swimming, etc). Ease the shock, so to speak.

[G08]

To be clear, I think Justin Fields mentally is smart enough to start as a rookie. I think he has the arm strength and raw talent to make plays when there is nothing to be had. You can scheme simple run plans for him and work play-action off it as well.

tl;dr There's an offense we can deploy which will keep defenses off-balance simply with Fields' raw athleticism.

 

I think we all agree to that, regardless of which side we sit on for this argument. I just find inherent value in letting him see how Dalton prepares -- what an NFL game-week is like -- what he likes from the process and what he would tweak to fit his personal taste. Same goes with how to watch and study NFL tape, see how defenses attack us, look at how and why Dalton makes certain reads based on pre- and post-snap coverage shifts.

[Heinz D.]

2 hours ago, G08 said:

@Heinz D.all excellent points, but I will always go back to wanting to ease a child into the shallow end of the pool before throwing them into the deep end (where they have no concept of water, swimming, etc). Ease the shock, so to speak.

Oh, I'm fine with having him sit, as well. In the scheme of things (like, the hoped-for overall length of Fields' career) it's just a blip. And I'm confident that Andy Dalton can win football games for the Bears. What I wanted MOST last off-season was for Pace to wait for the best quarterback to shake loose (which would have been Dalton), grab that guy then trade up for Jordan Love. And then, of course, play Dalton while Love sat and learned. 

I just think it's weird Nagy keeps going back to the Mahomes comparison with Fields, as it isn't apt in any way. My initial prediction was that Dalton would start about half the season, then Fields would swoop in for a crazy exciting playoff push. And it may still end up that way...but I'm starting to doubt it. I think #1 might be out there against the Rams. 

Edited June 13, 2021 by Heinz D.

[G08]

 

Edited June 15, 2021 by G08

[G08]

 

 

[abstract_thought]

Nagy says some weird stuff sometimes.

[Heinz D.]

1 hour ago, abstract_thought said:

Nagy says some weird stuff sometimes.

He's an idiot. Just proved it twice-over today. 

Idiots aren't generally good head coaches. Let's all pray to the football gods he's gone soon. 

[HuskieBear]

adam jahns said that dalton was by far the better qb today, but lets all take quotes and tweets out of context and complain about nagy