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I personally think Baker has elite upside and he's not that far away from achieving that status. 

He has great arm strength which is a big key but it's the intangibles that he shares with the greats that will push him over the top. He has high level leadership skills and the hunger to be great. He's a student of the game and has always had a me against the world work ethic. He wants to be great, he wants to win and he puts the time in to improving his craft, both mentally and physically 

Where I started to notice the biggest strides is in batted balls. It seems like he started to understand where his throwing lanes are. Granted the OL in front of him was a huge upgrade, but for me the decrease in batted balls is a huge improvement and that's not something that fixes itself. Student of the game, young, hungry and driven... recipe for success and reason for us to get excited

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Posted (edited)

A few more things I wanted to touch on

He showed tremendous growth in his maturity level and I think there are several key factors involved in that progress. You have a guy who walked on everywhere he went in college, earned the starting job there, went on to have a great college career. Won awards, was recognized as one of the greats then goes to the NFL and gets to see it's not as easy as he thought it would be

Played under a few coaches here who let the inmates run the asylum and he just kinda ran with it. To me, without a doubt, Kevin Stefanski put him in his place. He told him what he expected, proved to him that he was competent and I think those 2 factors (being held accountable and buying into what the coach was selling) are the single biggest keys to what us fans have wanted for so long and that's a team that we know going into the season has a legit shot at winning it all

Being surrounded by great talent doesn't hurt either lol. What this front office has achieved in such a short amount of time is mind blowing. It started with Dorsey and was augmented to what we see now when we look at the roster. I kinda get chills thinking about this upcoming season

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1 hour ago, TeHDruiD said:

I personally think Baker has elite upside and he's not that far away from achieving that status. 

He has great arm strength which is a big key but it's the intangibles that he shares with the greats that will push him over the top. He has high level leadership skills and the hunger to be great. He's a student of the game and has always had a me against the world work ethic. He wants to be great, he wants to win and he puts the time in to improving his craft, both mentally and physically 

Where I started to notice the biggest strides is in batted balls. It seems like he started to understand where his throwing lanes are. Granted the OL in front of him was a huge upgrade, but for me the decrease in batted balls is a huge improvement and that's not something that fixes itself. Student of the game, young, hungry and driven... recipe for success and reason for us to get excited

You look at year 1 and 3, compared to year 2. I think the difference truly was the coaching. I think Zamp and Al were not coaches who were happy to just be there and to a point, Freddie, finally getting a chance to be an OC and was prolly busting his butt to try and get hired as the full time OC for the browns or else where. In 19, it seemed like Freddie and Lindlay were just happy to have the positions they did. Monken didnt seem like that and I think that is why he was so at ends with Freddie. you look at the staff now, Stef and AVP were not happy to just be there, that they wanted more. The attitudes and behaviors of the coaches truly rub off on the players. I think that was a big issues 

I think how you described Baker is how you can describe Stef, that he wasnt a good assistant because of Zimmer or Kubiack or was good cause he had Cousins. same with AVP, he wasnt a good QB/offensive mind because he had Rodgers as his QB for so long. 

IMO we havent even gotten close to peak Baker and henis already considered at least a top12 QB. really excited to see the offense with Baker getting a full offseason to expand and develop in the system, where in the past he has been learning mew systems each offseason. hard to compare but Baker was pretty good that first year in Riellys offense at Oklahoma, year2 tho, he became Elite and was considered one of the best QBs if not the best in the nation after yr2. Hopefully we see the same, he was pretty good in Stef’s offense yr1, lets see him become elite !

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1 hour ago, buno67 said:

You look at year 1 and 3, compared to year 2. I think the difference truly was the coaching. I think Zamp and Al were not coaches who were happy to just be there and to a point, Freddie, finally getting a chance to be an OC and was prolly busting his butt to try and get hired as the full time OC for the browns or else where. In 19, it seemed like Freddie and Lindlay were just happy to have the positions they did. Monken didnt seem like that and I think that is why he was so at ends with Freddie. you look at the staff now, Stef and AVP were not happy to just be there, that they wanted more. The attitudes and behaviors of the coaches truly rub off on the players. I think that was a big issues 

1st year was like a Metallica concert. 

2nd year was like a high school garage band. 

3rd  year  a symphony at times.

 

One huge question for this season and Baker is what happens between him and obj. Is Baker ready to be top of the pyramid and not obj. 

Can obj be greater than a pouty wr when things dont go his way? 

Obj isnt our best play maker, its chubb who more consistently makes explosive plays imo. 

It is a really interesting year for a bunch of our guys. Is Baker a franchise qb, what will the browns do with chubb, where is obj at in his career, peak or on the decline. 

Can landry recover from his injuries? Can Hunt regain elite form? Is Hooper a top 6-7 te or a top 20?

 

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1 hour ago, DawgX said:

Go to the Comparison forum. The disrespect Baker gets is unreal. LOL

If you look at the numbers, Baker is top 10 AT BEST right now, so I get it, kind of.

We are in a different spot, as we've watched every snap he has played.  Most of us see a QB who is ready to take the next step to possible top 5 status.  Honestly, I'm just ready to be quiet and watch him go.  My Steeler fan friends who I respect think Baker is the real deal, so it's not all negative against him.  His cocky persona doesn't help, but you can tell he's even dialed that back since his humbling in 2019.

All I know is when I watched him even in 2019, there was a lot to like.  I never saw a more unlucky QB in all my years of watching football.  It seemed like every pass that could possibly be picked was picked.  Contrast that with guys like Ben and even Josh Allen, who seem to have multiple int's dropped per game (at least last season).  I know I sound like a homer with those last two sentences, but the advanced stats back me up.

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1 hour ago, ReggieCamp said:

If you look at the numbers, Baker is top 10 AT BEST right now, so I get it, kind of.

We are in a different spot, as we've watched every snap he has played.  Most of us see a QB who is ready to take the next step to possible top 5 status.  Honestly, I'm just ready to be quiet and watch him go.  My Steeler fan friends who I respect think Baker is the real deal, so it's not all negative against him.  His cocky persona doesn't help, but you can tell he's even dialed that back since his humbling in 2019.

All I know is when I watched him even in 2019, there was a lot to like.  I never saw a more unlucky QB in all my years of watching football.  It seemed like every pass that could possibly be picked was picked.  Contrast that with guys like Ben and even Josh Allen, who seem to have multiple int's dropped per game (at least last season).  I know I sound like a homer with those last two sentences, but the advanced stats back me up.

I get why people wouldn't have Baker as a top ten QB. His stats were good last season, but nothing flashy. But that's why stats don't always tell the full story. I just laugh at people who have guys like Kyler Murray and Jimmy Garoppolo ranked ahead of him.

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What fans from other teams haven't seen is the transformation. They know the Browns went on a tear but without watching the games you don't get to see how accurate Baker became in the second half of the season. They don't see that instead of missing guys he was continuously putting pass after pass on the money

We all got to see it and truly appreciate that our franchise QB is legit. They'll get the hint once we smack the Chiefs week 1

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2 hours ago, DawgX said:

I get why people wouldn't have Baker as a top ten QB. His stats were good last season, but nothing flashy. But that's why stats don't always tell the full story. I just laugh at people who have guys like Kyler Murray and Jimmy Garoppolo ranked ahead of him.

The Athletic football podcast (Tice and Mays) did a "which QBs for the next 5 years" poll and took such luminaries as Tom Brady (at age 47 at the end of the period), Trevor Lawrence, Justin Fields, Matt Stafford, and Kyler all over Baker and I just kept laughing and laughing.

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I think a lot of the stigma with Baker stems from his cockiness and how much he used to talk. I believe to outsiders that is the same guy we're dealing with

From what I seen last year that is not the same guy. As a fan I remember seeing Baker fat and out of shape during that span. He came in last year rocked up and ready to go and the amount of work put in showed in the 2nd half. This is a way different animal than they remember

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Just looking at it from a team perspective, this isn't close to anything we've seen since our return and I think outsider fans have a hard time understanding that this just isn't the same ol' Browns who have been the laughingstock of the league the last 20 years in general

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12 hours ago, TeHDruiD said:

I personally think Baker has elite upside and he's not that far away from achieving that status. 

He has great arm strength which is a big key but it's the intangibles that he shares with the greats that will push him over the top. He has high level leadership skills and the hunger to be great. He's a student of the game and has always had a me against the world work ethic. He wants to be great, he wants to win and he puts the time in to improving his craft, both mentally and physically 

Where I started to notice the biggest strides is in batted balls. It seems like he started to understand where his throwing lanes are. Granted the OL in front of him was a huge upgrade, but for me the decrease in batted balls is a huge improvement and that's not something that fixes itself. Student of the game, young, hungry and driven... recipe for success and reason for us to get excited

I also think baker is a guy who craves structure which is why when Freddie was coach he took a step back from year one, everything about Stefanski and berry is structure

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2 hours ago, Dawgpoun8017 said:

I also think baker is a guy who craves structure which is why when Freddie was coach he took a step back from year one, everything about Stefanski and berry is structure

I think Baker would have done well in Freddie's offense if we had better tackles and a decent RG. Freddie refusing to adjust showed he couldn't handle being a HC especially since when he was hired he said if you don't adjust out of stubbornness you won't be successful. My favorite quote of his and it made me feel he "got it" and would be successful here. He didn't get it, even though he said it. He could have altered the passing game and made it at least decent. He didn't and pretty much fired himself.

Baker was running for his life so much in his second season that he just expected pressure and any QB that expects pressure is going to be bad. The only hope at that point is that you somehow get it out of your head. Many never do. Fortunately Baker did. So we know he is unbreakable. Which means he is 100% a franchise QB.

He still has room to improve of course. He makes too many tight window throws. Maybe he doesn't see the better option or there isn't a better option but once that all comes together we're looking at 70% completions and a 100 rating or higher every season. Probably a HOF career.

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