2021 Baker thread

[NateDawg]

Just throwing this out there but Pat Mahomes has made some anti-clutch throws two straight weeks now. 

Sample size matters. 

[mtmmike]

Tied for 1st

[big poppa pump]

I think Baker would say that he was "off" today.  I watched him apologize to Bryant on the sidelines, after missing him wide open.  His mechanics looked a little sketchy, but I think he was a tad gun shy, after dealing with the pass rush of the Bears early on!

[sdrawkcab321]

10 minutes ago, big poppa pump said:

I think Baker would say that he was "off" today.  I watched him apologize to Bryant on the sidelines, after missing him wide open.  His mechanics looked a little sketchy, but I think he was a tad gun shy, after dealing with the pass rush of the Bears early on!

That along with missing a wide open Felton up the sidelines. Haven’t seen him miss 2 easy passes like that in a while. 

Edited September 27, 2021 by sdrawkcab321

[JDD]

Wonder if the shoulder has anything to do with it? Not making excuses because he still was solid but seemed like early on he was having trouble dropping the ball in and it seemed like everything was high. 

On the Felton play that would have been a great throw since he did have someone in his face when he let the ball go.

[MWil23]

I think that you saw with him missing some throws yesterday, that the internal clock for a QB is a reality. The wheel to Felton and the pass to Harrison are two prime examples. He rushed, didn't set his feet, and probably threw the first too early and the second was high.

Protecting a QB matters in so many ways beyond the actual sacks and box scores, and those are two prime examples IMO.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

46 minutes ago, JDD said:

Wonder if the shoulder has anything to do with it? Not making excuses because he still was solid but seemed like early on he was having trouble dropping the ball in and it seemed like everything was high. 

On the Felton play that would have been a great throw since he did have someone in his face when he let the ball go.

The one to Felton looked like he threw with his feet wonky as hell, unbalanced, etc.

Thats not a throw he misses often.

Oh well, off game but he didn’t turn it over, put points on the board and got the win.  Can’t complain about that.

[Empire Lies]

10 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

So does only one of the top 7 have flaws or did you only want to point out the flaws of one?

Yeah, of course, by not having anything next to Mahomes and Rodgers, then having a few quickly typed positive highlights next to all those other non-Baker QBs definitely means that I believe that the others are flawless pieces of perfection with heavenly arms of brilliance sent here to help uplift humanity in ways that the tremendously flawed Baker Mayfield could never accomplish.

I definitely only believe Baker has flaws and all the rest are pure diamonds like the heart of Kai Nacua.

I've spoken in other places on this forum about those other QBs relative to Baker including their flaws. For most ppl, it's self evident as to why the last item which is the item of comparative interest has information that differentiates it from the rest of the list in relative comparison terms. Which means Baker has similar qualities to those above him on the list but relative to the others Baker "misses too many easy open throws and he floats, hangs, or skys too many throws on big downs or in critical moments" in ways worse than the others on the list.

To you, a person having Baker amongst the top 7 elite QBs in overall arm talent in the league means Baker bashing or bias.

To scouts, there's no question that the 5 before Baker have better "arms" than Baker. The only debatable one would be Kyler Murray for a wide variety of metrics.

Even Scot McCloughan had Kyler Murray with a better arm than Baker and Rob Rang when talking with McCloughan talked about how scouts and people in the league thought Kyler's arm was even better in terms of deep ball accuracy and raw arm talent.

Now, that they played in the league there's separation as well according to many though it's not certain.

[Empire Lies]

It's doubtful that by the end of the year, Baker's agents will be able to effectively make the case that he deserves the same pay as the elite MVP caliber performing young QBs like Patrick Mahomes (MVP and Super Bowl), Lamar Jackson (won an MVP), Deshaun Watson, and Josh Allen (MVP caliber season last year).

Along with Baker's missing of wide open throws, not always being able to make the big time throw in critical moments, not having the running ability to make up for the limitations in his game or in the surrounding talent, and the QB completion friendly nature of the wide zone offense, likely means that Browns will be able to resign Baker to a contract a tier below the top elite young QBs.

That is, unless Baker comes up big in an extended playoff run.

If not, it's going to be hard for him to get the Josh Allen or forthcoming Lamar Jackson type contract. And that will work out in the Browns favor.

[sdrawkcab321]

 

 

not ideal OL

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

4 minutes ago, Empire Lies said:

It's doubtful that by the end of the year, Baker's agents will be able to effectively make the case that he deserves the same pay as the elite MVP caliber performing young QBs like Patrick Mahomes (MVP and Super Bowl), Lamar Jackson (won an MVP), Deshaun Watson, and Josh Allen (MVP caliber season last year).

Along with Baker's missing of wide open throws, not always being able to make the big time throw in critical moments, not having the running ability to make up for the limitations in his game or in the surrounding talent, and the QB completion friendly nature of the wide zone offense, likely means that Browns will be able to resign Baker to a contract a tier below the top elite young QBs.

That is, unless Baker comes up big in an extended playoff run.

If not, it's going to be hard for him to get the Josh Allen or forthcoming Lamar Jackson type contract. And that will work out in the Browns favor.

The problem with all of this is the Browns don’t really have any option other than to pay him. And while it may not match Allen’s contract, it won’t be cheap by any means.

Id rather he be overpaid than spend another 3 decades looking for someone better personally.

[ReggieCamp]

4 minutes ago, sdrawkcab321 said:

 

 

not ideal OL

Isn't that more on Baker though?

Every QB gets pressured. Turning that pressure into something other than a sack or turnover is on the QB in large part. It's an area where Baker needs to continue to improve.

Just another reason why comp % can be deceiving. If a guy doesn't throw it away enough, his comp % is high, but it'd be better if he threw it away more often.

[Empire Lies]

2 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

The problem with all of this is the Browns don’t really have any option other than to pay him. And while it may not match Allen’s contract, it won’t be cheap by any means.

Id rather he be overpaid than spend another 3 decades looking for someone better personally.

For sure.

He's getting the Brinks truck no doubt.

In the end, it will come down to what Baker demands b/c the Browns aren't in the position to risk alienating the only competent QB in ages by playing hardball or going the franchise tag route.

I do think Andrew Berry will be able to negotiate more team friendly deal relative to the Josh Allen contract given what the offensive system does to Baker's statistical production and some of Baker's limitations.

Will be interesting to see what happens if Baker takes a "I want top QB money" stance.

[sdrawkcab321]

30 minutes ago, ReggieCamp said:

Isn't that more on Baker though?

Every QB gets pressured. Turning that pressure into something other than a sack or turnover is on the QB in large part. It's an area where Baker needs to continue to improve.

Just another reason why comp % can be deceiving. If a guy doesn't throw it away enough, his comp % is high, but it'd be better if he threw it away more often.

Watch some of those sacks on baker. He has no chance to avoid them. Maybe he could do something at the line but when his guy is getting beat 1 on1 nothing he can do about that. 

[mtmmike]

41 minutes ago, Empire Lies said:

It's doubtful that by the end of the year, Baker's agents will be able to effectively make the case that he deserves the same pay as the elite MVP caliber performing young QBs like Patrick Mahomes (MVP and Super Bowl), Lamar Jackson (won an MVP), Deshaun Watson, and Josh Allen (MVP caliber season last year).

Along with Baker's missing of wide open throws, not always being able to make the big time throw in critical moments, not having the running ability to make up for the limitations in his game or in the surrounding talent, and the QB completion friendly nature of the wide zone offense, likely means that Browns will be able to resign Baker to a contract a tier below the top elite young QBs.

That is, unless Baker comes up big in an extended playoff run.

If not, it's going to be hard for him to get the Josh Allen or forthcoming Lamar Jackson type contract. And that will work out in the Browns favor.

As Bakers agent I have more yards 

Then Allen .

Better completion percentage

More touchdowns and we both lost to Mahomes.

I am the qb that is on pace to beat

Manning ,Breese, and Bradys passing mark open the vault because you Would not extend me before Dak