2021 Baker thread

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

1 hour ago, MWil23 said:

. He can’t even suck correctly. 😏 

[mtmmike]

2 hours ago, DaWg_LB. said:

Just putting my two cents on the last two comments.....Bengals....eh not so much....the Raven draft was IMO the best by FAR (The Jets had a BOMB draft also) in the entire NFL, they completely rebuilt their TE Group, added the 2nd best punter in the draft, added a couple young CB's to go with their Shutdown tandem, got what I thought was the 2nd best DT in the draft in Travis Jones, a kid I think is going to have Machai Beckton impact at RT with the boy from Minn and not one, but 2 of the 9 Blue Chip players I had in this draft (FS Hamilton AND C. Linderbaum).......

But the Jackson being better than Watson....I dont know about that...Watson can be as an effective runner as Jackson (Watson can pass, so he dosent run as much), but Jackson will never lead the league in passing.....Watson has done that. Burrow....folks love him a LOT more than I do (we are aware that we are 4-0 vs Bengals since Burrow has been drafted) and until burrow leads the league in passing (ESPECIALLY with that receiving corps the bengals have)......I must disagree with him being better than Watson also (the SB argument is always a team thing with me)

Burrows has beat both mahomes and and Lamar.

Mahomes is clearly better then Deshaun.

Lamar is 2 wins no losses against 

Deshaun he is also a Mvp.

You think Deshaun is better then go to the big board and mention

Deshaun for Lamar or Burrows and see if they agree with you.

Also Burrows has delivered the Bengals a Super bowl appearance 

Deshaun 1 win.

Excellent point 

 

[big poppa pump]

2 hours ago, MWil23 said:

He can’t even suck correctly. 😏 

 

 

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

[Thomas5737]

8 hours ago, mtmmike said:

Burrows and Lamar are both better plus they both had better drafts.

Plus there both on rookie contracts.

Burrows (and Watson for that matter with at least 1 full year off) still have things to prove but yeah Joe may be better.

Lamar is not better than Watson. He may win more and is certainly more dynamic but once the shine has gone (or his escapability) Lamar isn't in the same class as any of the top 15 top QBs. He is a hybrid and very hard to defend but as a thrower of the football under the same duress as any other QB he simply isn't good.

Minus Lamar's legs he isn't in Mayfield's class let alone the other two guys who are coming off of career years.

[NateDawg]

4 hours ago, mtmmike said:

Burrows 

Excellent point 

Agreed

[MalcolmBrown]

Removed to put in the appropriate thread.

Edited June 17, 2022 by MalcolmBrown

[mrpazzo]

23 hours ago, mtmmike said:

Deshaun 1 win.

That one win was over Josh Allen in the playoffs.  It was a come from behind win that was won in overtime. The Texans were down 13-0 at halftime and 16-0 in the 3rd quarter, so it's not chopped liver😉 

 

[mtmmike]

4 minutes ago, mrpazzo said:

That one win was over Josh Allen in the playoffs.  It was a come from behind win that was won in overtime. The Texans were down 13-0 at halftime and 16-0 in the 3rd quarter, so it's not chopped liver😉 

 

1 win 

334.playoff winning percentage

259 million Guaranteed. 

[candyman93]

15 minutes ago, mtmmike said:

1 win 

334.playoff winning percentage

259 million Guaranteed. 

Before last year, how many playoff wins did Matthew Stafford have?

[mtmmike]

1 minute ago, candyman93 said:

Before last year, how many playoff wins did Matthew Stafford have?

I believe stafford only maid 29 million last year not 60

Besides name your top qb we could trade Deshaun for

Rodgers

Mahomes

Tom brady

[Thomas5737]

4 hours ago, mrpazzo said:

That one win was over Josh Allen in the playoffs.  It was a come from behind win that was won in overtime. The Texans were down 13-0 at halftime and 16-0 in the 3rd quarter, so it's not chopped liver😉 

 

Well at that time Josh Allen's career QB rating was in the 70s. Allen's QB rating in that playoff game wasn't even 70.

A win is a win but beating 2nd year Josh Allen isn't a feather in anyone's cap.

[mrpazzo]

40 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

beating 2nd year Josh Allen isn't a feather in anyone's cap.

Perhaps.  (But I sure as heck ain't going to deduct style points from Baker for beating an old and creaky Roethlisberger😉) Watson was also only in his 3rd year, having played in only 7 games in his rookie year due to injury when he beat the 2nd year Allen.  Watson made the playoffs in his 2nd year, and he lost his first game just like Allen. In Watson's case, he lost to Andrew Luck in his first playoff game.  In the game after beating the Bills, he lost to Mahomes, something Baker, Allen and a lot guys have done.

Also I wouldn't minimize a playoff game in which Watson's team was in a big hole and had to climb out to win it in overtime.  We love to think about Baker's come back win against the Bengals in 2020, I mean this sincerely as a Browns fan, it was an awesome game for Baker and the Browns. I enjoyed it immensely 😁  But he beat a rookie Joe Burrow on a Bengals team that went 4-12. Should say we say that game "wasn't all that"? What would we say if Baker led a comeback against the Bills in the playoffs where the Browns were down 16-0 in the 3rd quarter?  I felt good about the Baker and the Browns when they didn't manage to come all the way back against KC in the playoffs.  Heck, after that game the Browns were going to win the Super Bowl in 2021.

I'm not claiming Watson is at the level of Mahomes or Allen, but some folks in this thread seem to be saying a 1-2 playoff record is an indictment of a guy that has played 4 seasons.  Meaning 2 seasons with appearances in the playoffs out of 4 seasons, and a starting record of 11-5 and 10-5 in those two seasons is proof that he isn't one of the top young qbs in the league. Not only does Baker have only one 10+ win season in 4 seasons, the Browns have just 2 in since 1999, the same amount as Watson.  

It's really too early to make conclusions on most of these young quarterbacks.  The consensus of those that have watched Watson play, (and no I haven't watched him, I'm a Browns fan with little opportunity see the Browns play, let alone the Texans) is that Watson is pretty darn good, and better than Baker. Only time will tell.

TLDR: Watson Playoff Record:  Beat Josh Allen, lost to Andrew Luck and Patrick Mahomes.😉

[Thomas5737]

1 hour ago, mrpazzo said:

for beating an old and creaky Roethlisberger

Does this go for the whole team? Our playoff win was meaningless because Ben was old?

Dang, now we are back to not having won a playoff game since the move.

[candyman93]

 

[mrpazzo]

10 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

Does this go for the whole team? Our playoff win was meaningless because Ben was old?

I think you missed the point I was trying to make. I do think the playoff win against the hated Steelers counts.  That was a great victory for Baker, all the players, the Browns organization and the entire Browns fanbase. I loved that day.  I was trying to make the point that if you are going to devalue Watson's win over Josh Allen on the basis that Allen was a younger version of himself who did not play great on that day, despite being one of, if not the main reason the Bills made the playoffs, one could use the same logic to devalue the win that Baker and the Browns had over an old and creaky Roethlisberger because Ben was no longer the best version of himself.  I think it is a mistake in both instances.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I was getting the sense that for some, Baker's one appearance in the playoffs with a win over Ben and a loss to Mahomes is good and something to be celebrated (and I believe it should be), but Watson's 2 seasons in the playoffs, with a win over Allen and losses to Andrew Luck and Mahomes are nothing to write home about.

Finally, since this is a Baker thread, you should know I like Baker for all his prickly love him or hate attitude.  He did good things for the Browns, he was a part of some good memories for the last 4 years.  Over time I did come to fear that he may never learn to compensate for his limitations in a way that will allow him to develop into a top level quarterback, so I don't blame the Browns for trying to find a better qb.  I just don't agree that Watson's playoff record is questionable.  Watson is a young qb who took his team to the playoffs twice in his young career, won a game against another rising star and that's not something to discount or dismiss.

TLDR: In my book, ALL playoff wins count. As Browns fans can we afford to have any other attitude?  I mean we have so few. They are precious😉