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Just now, MWil23 said:

TL;DR

It's not OBJ's fault. However, in a vacuum, a QB is infinitely more important than a WR. You therefore trade the WR if you're sold on Baker being your dude. It's not personal, it's just basic positional importance. One position impacts 90% of the game, and the other impacts ~8-12 plays a game. 

I really didn’t think it was as hard of a concept to grasp as it’s proven to be.

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Maybe the FO is thinking along the same lines of you guys, but it's hard to see trading OBJ midseason would be the missing ingredient for a championship team. I think there would be other human elements of the transaction that would make it difficult and/or detrimental to the team.

If OBJ is a cancer behind closed doors, then absolutely. Otherwise, I think you still have to try to figure it out.

I know many of you are over "trying to figure it out", but it still may be the best move at this point.

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6 minutes ago, ReggieCamp said:

If OBJ is a cancer behind closed doors, then absolutely. Otherwise, I think you still have to try to figure it out.

I know many of you are over "trying to figure it out", but it still may be the best move at this point.

I'm personally in this camp as well. I think it's a 2022 off-season move and you hope for the best at that point.

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4 minutes ago, ReggieCamp said:

Maybe the FO is thinking along the same lines of you guys, but it's hard to see trading OBJ midseason would be the missing ingredient for a championship team. I think there would be other human elements of the transaction that would make it difficult and/or detrimental to the team.

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/Article/Are-the-Cleveland-Browns-Better-With-or-Without-Odell-Beckham-Jr-in-the-Offense-Going-Forward-160055917/

A quote from the article:


Going back to the start of the 2019 season up until Beckham’s injury, Mayfield and Beckham had the worst completion success rate of any quarterback/receiver duo in the league at 55.6 percent, according to ESPN Stats & Info with at least 100 attempts.

During the 2020 season with Beckham, Mayfield ranked 14th in Quarterback Rating. But after Beckham’s injury, through Week 15, he ranked third in QBR. Only Patrick Mahomes and Aaron Rodgers had higher QBR's than Mayfield did.

 

Like, it’s not as if he’s middling without him and struggles a bit more with him.  It’s absurd the difference tbh. The difference between 2018 and 2019 matches this as well, as does the 4 games thus far this season.

I get the hesitation, but the change is almost instantaneous in every situation.

4 minutes ago, ReggieCamp said:

If OBJ is a cancer behind closed doors, then absolutely. Otherwise, I think you still have to try to figure it out.

That doesn’t appear to be the case at all.

4 minutes ago, ReggieCamp said:

I know many of you are over "trying to figure it out", but it still may be the best move at this point.

I mean, maybe, but how long can you give it?  
 

LIS before, we’ve for 4 games until the deadline.  If 3 years and 20 something games isn’t enough time, I’m not sure there will ever be enough time. Especially when there’s very little doubt about each of their talent individually.

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Posted (edited)

For someone who appears to be so mentally strong in a lot of areas, this one is REAL tough one to figure out for Baker. I went back and watched just about the whole game again, and Baker's mechanics were poo-poo on all the bad throws. I'm gonna go ahead and conclude that his mechanics were his biggest problem yesterday.

This is a mental problem imo. Will trading OBJ make him more relaxed? Or will it make him more on edge and desperate to prove himself?

Delicate stuff here.

Edited by ReggieCamp
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10 minutes ago, ReggieCamp said:

For someone who appears to be so mentally strong in a lot of areas, this one is REAL tough one to figure out for Baker. I went back and watched just about the whole game again, and Baker's mechanics were poo-poo on all the bad throws. I'm gonna go ahead and conclude that his mechanics were his biggest problem yesterday.

This is a mental problem imo. Will trading OBJ make him more relaxed? Or will it make him more on edge and desperate to prove himself?

Delicate stuff here.

Unless it's a health related mechanical problem (his non throwing shoulder), it's 100% the 2nd one.

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24 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/Article/Are-the-Cleveland-Browns-Better-With-or-Without-Odell-Beckham-Jr-in-the-Offense-Going-Forward-160055917/

A quote from the article:


Going back to the start of the 2019 season up until Beckham’s injury, Mayfield and Beckham had the worst completion success rate of any quarterback/receiver duo in the league at 55.6 percent, according to ESPN Stats & Info with at least 100 attempts.

During the 2020 season with Beckham, Mayfield ranked 14th in Quarterback Rating. But after Beckham’s injury, through Week 15, he ranked third in QBR. Only Patrick Mahomes and Aaron Rodgers had higher QBR's than Mayfield did.

 

Like, it’s not as if he’s middling without him and struggles a bit more with him.  It’s absurd the difference tbh. The difference between 2018 and 2019 matches this as well, as does the 4 games thus far this season.

I get the hesitation, but the change is almost instantaneous in every situation.

That doesn’t appear to be the case at all.

I mean, maybe, but how long can you give it?  
 

LIS before, we’ve for 4 games until the deadline.  If 3 years and 20 something games isn’t enough time, I’m not sure there will ever be enough time. Especially when there’s very little doubt about each of their talent individually.

2 wins no losses with obj (your solution cut him).

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A really great article by OBR's Jake Burns today contextualizing and highlights many of Baker's struggles vs the Vikings and prior with All22 clips and thoughtful analysi:

 https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/LongFormArticle/conversation-baker-mayfield-172375333/#172375333_2 

A lot has been made about the wheel route Demetric Felton miss last being b/c of focusing on OBJ as his first read.

All22 reveals that wasn't the case at all as Baker instead kept his eyes mid-field to hold the safety. All other routes to the right short by DPJ and OBJ were decoy routes on the opposite side of the field: 

<div style="width: 100%; height: 0px; position: relative; padding-bottom: 56.250%;"><iframe src="https://[LINK ERROR]/e/pscq2s" frameborder="0" width="100%" height="100%" allowfullscreen style="width: 100%; height: 100%; position: absolute;"></iframe></div>

 

 

Edited by Empire Lies
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1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/Article/Are-the-Cleveland-Browns-Better-With-or-Without-Odell-Beckham-Jr-in-the-Offense-Going-Forward-160055917/

A quote from the article:


Going back to the start of the 2019 season up until Beckham’s injury, Mayfield and Beckham had the worst completion success rate of any quarterback/receiver duo in the league at 55.6 percent, according to ESPN Stats & Info with at least 100 attempts.

During the 2020 season with Beckham, Mayfield ranked 14th in Quarterback Rating. But after Beckham’s injury, through Week 15, he ranked third in QBR. Only Patrick Mahomes and Aaron Rodgers had higher QBR's than Mayfield did.

 

Like, it’s not as if he’s middling without him and struggles a bit more with him.  It’s absurd the difference tbh. The difference between 2018 and 2019 matches this as well, as does the 4 games thus far this season.

I get the hesitation, but the change is almost instantaneous in every situation.

That doesn’t appear to be the case at all.

I mean, maybe, but how long can you give it?  
 

LIS before, we’ve for 4 games until the deadline.  If 3 years and 20 something games isn’t enough time, I’m not sure there will ever be enough time. Especially when there’s very little doubt about each of their talent individually.

Do you think Mayfield performed like the 14th ranked QB in the NFL on Sunday?  He's been middling with him and great without him.  Yesterday he was putrid.

Edited by Rod Johnson
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19 minutes ago, Empire Lies said:

A really great article by OBR's Jake Burns today contextualizing and highlights many of Baker's struggles vs the Vikings and prior with All22 clips and thoughtful analysi:

 https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/LongFormArticle/conversation-baker-mayfield-172375333/#172375333_2 

A lot has been made about the wheel route Demetric Felton miss last being b/c of focusing on OBJ as his first read.

All22 reveals that wasn't the case at all as Baker instead kept his eyes mid-field to hold the safety. All other routes to the right short by DPJ and OBJ were decoy routes on the opposite side of the field: 

<div style="width: 100%; height: 0px; position: relative; padding-bottom: 56.250%;"><iframe src="https://[LINK ERROR]/e/pscq2s" frameborder="0" width="100%" height="100%" allowfullscreen style="width: 100%; height: 100%; position: absolute;"></iframe></div>

 

 

That wasn’t the play to Felton I was talking about if you’re referring to me.


6:08 ish mark

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