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8 minutes ago, Rod Johnson said:

Do you think Mayfield performed like the 14th ranked QB in the NFL on Sunday?  He's been middling with him and great without him.  Yesterday he was putrid.

That’s fair.

Again, I’m not defending Baker or accusing OBJ of anything.  I wish they’d figure it out.  OBJ had 2 easy TD’s that I can remember from yesterday, but they just never do.

It’s just like regardless of the situation whenever one zigs, the other zags.

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1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

It’s not.  Who’s saying it is?  

Most people aren’t saying timing.  I’m saying chemistry. They have none, zero.

You’re conflating people saying that this offense takes 10 steps backwards with OBJ in the lineup as being his fault as a direct consequence of things he does with just acknowledging the offense doesn’t run well with him in there regardless of the reason.

Whats chemistry have to do with seeing a open WR and throwing him a catchable pass. I think people are searching for some hidden answer to the problem and not just saying the obvious.

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16 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

Whats chemistry have to do with seeing a open WR and throwing him a catchable pass. I think people are searching for some hidden answer to the problem and not just saying the obvious.

Well if you find it, make sure to let the 2 coaching staffs who’ve failed to do so know.

 

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1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Mat Best Reaction GIF by Black Rifle Coffee Company

I know better than to tangle with this legend. 

 

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Mat Best Reaction GIF by Black Rifle Coffee Company

I know better than to tangle with this legend. 

😀

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8 hours ago, ReggieCamp said:

 

 

8 hours ago, brownie man said:

That’s even more concerning 

 

It has to be the shoulder.

It really just has to be.

If it's the yips or the pressure of the contract or pressure of super bowl expectations then the Haslams and Andrew Berry need to invest every resource possible to get Baker an effective Sports & Performance Psychologist and Baker needs to be willing to receive the help.

In truth, even if it is that stuff he can get past it in ways that help this team still remain on track to their goals.

Baker's always had issues in critical pressure moments in big games going back to the miss hung inside ball to a wide open Jarvis Landry in the 2018-2019 Ravens playoff spoiler game at the end of the year to last year's 2 wide open misses in the endzone and wide open miss to Kareem Hunt against Jacksonville to the fumble and misses against the Jets in what was a playoff clinching game at the time to this year's wide open misses to Njoku and Schwartz in the last deciding drives against Kansas City.

I'm willing to attribute post-Kansas City struggles to the shoulder even though deep down inside I doubt that's the case.

We need the issue to be the shoulder b/c critiques of Baker or not Browns fans don't deserve to really have to experience the maddening dark timeline of events whereby Baker gets in the way of winning in key moments.

The good news is Baker's still young and the season is young. There's a lot of smart people in the building and Baker by all accounts still is a hard worker and is ultra motivated to turn things around.

He just has to. Will he? Maybe not, but the Rams went to the Super Bowl with Jared Goff and the 49ers with Jimmy G. He doesn't have to be spectacular in this paint by numbers offense with a quality defense. If he can just improve a few percentage points in critical moment play, the Browns can go where they want to go.

Edited by Empire Lies
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11 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Only if he fails without him too and OBJ goes on to excel elsewhere.

If he continues to plays like he has pretty much his entire career without him, no one questions anything, regardless as to what OBJ does moving forward.

That's a pretty rosey way to look at it.

It's a stinging indictment of Mayfield if he can't excel with a HOF caliber WR. It was more of a conspiracy last season that he was better w/o Odell... so it was easily brushed away. If it's confirmed this year that definitely isn't just going away, no matter what the outcomes. 

If trading Beckham becomes a real option, at best I think you'd have to trade him for another WR talent + and just hope it works better. 

Brandon Aiyuk

Denzel Mims

N'Keal Harry

Quintez Cephus

 

To me, this was the biggest issue the team was potentially going to face this year...if Mayfield plays poor again with OBJ back. 

 

Edited by BrownLeader
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A missing element that no one is taking into account is what the players and coaches think of Baker's struggles should they persist.

While it seems acceptable in this forum to blame OBJ for Baker's ills, I'm willing to bet that excuse and rationale doesn't cross Kareem Hunt, Demetric Felton, Harrison Bryant's mind when Baker is missing them on wide open throws.

We all know it sure isn't crossing Jarvis Landry's mind given his friendship with OBJ and his own frustrations with a lot of Baker's misses.

We all remember the exasperated look on Stefanski's face in the Jacksonville game when Baker missed 2 wide open touchdowns and skied Kareem Hunt on an easy convert. From the All22 view that included the sideline, Stefanski had that same look in the Kansas City and Vikings games when Baker kept missing.

At some point, it's hard for an OC to forget those misses and eventually the OC/HC starts to lose confidence in being able to rely on the QB to make the requisite plays. Despite quality numbers and strong play at times with the Rams, Sean McVay grew weary of Goff's limitations and misses. In time, if things don't change, Stefanski will as well.

I wonder what the players, coaches, and front office are thinking relative to what a lot of us are thinking. Do the majority of them think "Baker's in a funk or injured and this will pass soon" or are they worried and losing some confidence. What's the tipping point.

Only time will tell.

Edited by Empire Lies
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1 hour ago, Empire Lies said:

A missing element that no one is taking into account is what the players and coaches think of Baker's struggles should they persist.

While it seems acceptable in this forum to blame OBJ for Baker's ills, I'm willing to bet that excuse and rationale doesn't cross Kareem Hunt, Demetric Felton, Harrison Bryant's when Baker is missing them on wide open throws.

We all know it sure isn't crossing Jarvis Landry's mind given his frustrations with a lot of Baker's misses.

We all remember the exasperated look on Stefanski's face in the Jacksonville game when Baker missed 2 wide open touchdowns and skied Kareem Hunt on an easy convert. From the All22 view that included the sideline, Stefanski had that same look in the Kansas City and Vikings games when Baker kept missing.

At some point, it's hard for an OC to forget those misses and eventually the OC/HC starts to lose confidence in being able to rely on the QB to make the requisite plays. Despite quality numbers and strong play at times with the Rams, Sean McVay grew weary of Goff's limitations and misses. In time, if things don't change, Stefanski will as well.

I wonder what the players, coaches, and front office are thinking relative to what a lot of us are thinking. Does the majority of them think "Baker's in a funk or injured and this will pass soon" or are they worried.

Only time will tell.

That is a great question. 
If it isnt injury related than his misses are profound because his level of accuracy at times is the best i have seen. 
His game vs the Texans he was throwing at 90% the 2nd half vs the bengals he was unreal. 

There are a lot of weird things going, DPJ looked dangerous last year, this year he has ahuge snap count and virtually no targets. 

Higg got resigned and then hardly sees the field and produces hwen he is on it, he seems to live in the dog house. 

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11 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Well if you find it, make sure to let the 2 coaching staffs who’ve failed to do so know.

 

My point is that it's not a coaching thing, or a chemistry thing, or some other 'thing'. It's that Baker has been a bottom 10 QB in the NFL so far this season and he needs to be a better passer in order to capitalize on the separation OBJ gets.

There isn't some hidden meaning to sailing a ball 5 feet over a wide open WRs head or throwing a uncatchable pass on a open streak down the sideline. 

Be more accurate, be better and hit your wide open WRs. If Baker could just give OBJ a catchable pass when he has space then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

Edited by AkronsWitness
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4 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

My point is that it's not a coaching thing, or a chemistry thing, or some other 'thing'. It's that Baker has been a bottom 10 QB in the NFL so far this season and he needs to be a better passer in order to capitalize on the separation OBJ gets.

And yet somehow he was completing over 80% of his passes the first two weeks.

4 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

There isn't some hidden meaning to sailing a ball 5 feet over a wide open WRs head or throwing a uncatchable pass on a open streak down the sideline. 
 

I understand he’s missing throws. To everyone.  He also wasn’t doing this at any point earlier in the year or last year after OBJ went down or his rookie year.

4 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

Be more accurate, be better and hit your wide open WRs. If Baker could just give OBJ a catchable pass when he has space then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

Maybe he just had a bad couple games and he gets it together moving forward. I’ve been told that was going to happen any time now… for 3 years.

The answer this whole time has always been, just throw it better, throw it to the open guy, etc.  He can’t. I mean, he can, just not with OBJ. He forces him the ball and looks for him way too often (already leads the team in targets despite playing half as many games).

This isn’t a blame game issue with anyone from me, just an acknowledgment that thus far this 3 year experiment has failed terribly and maybe it’s approaching time to move on from the easiest part of the puzzle to replace.

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