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The Pass "Rush" After 7 Games


TheOnlyThing

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9 minutes ago, TheOnlyThing said:

 

So, the Brooks injuries are a bit out of character based on his history, but did you really think that both Clay & Nick would go through the season injury-free? And if so, based on what magic pixie dust?

Because I was on record last Spring about the position being paper thin and given the above-referenced and well-documented injury histories of the starters questioned the wisdom of relying upon (then) two completely untested players who would necessarily have to play and contribute, Fackrell and Elliott.

Now, the answer to your question about why Fackrell is playing so many snaps is that (1) GB has regularly rotated 3-4 OLBers the past few years, (2) Ted Thompson determined Fackrell was worthy of a 3rd round pick in the 2016 draft, (3) Ted Thompson is, or at least has been, devoted to getting his picks (especially his more premium picks) playing time, (4) Fackrell was projected to be the 3rd OLBer until just before the season began when Brooks was signed and he became the 4th OLBer, and (5) with injuries to Brooks & Perry and Clay not really able to go full-time any more the 4th OLBer/Fackrell was of course the next man up.

Now, a couple of questions I'm sure you'll provide answers to, do you think Kyler was the best option available as the 3rd/4th OLBer this offseason and do you think his play has warranted TT's faith in him?

I might be reading this wrong but it sounds like you expect our fourth string OLB to be a "name" free agent.

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21 minutes ago, TheOnlyThing said:

So, the Brooks injuries are a bit out of character based on his history, but did you really think that both Clay & Nick would go through the season injury-free? And if so, based on what magic pixie dust?

Because I was on record last Spring about the position being paper thin and given the above-referenced and well-documented injury histories of the starters questioned the wisdom of relying upon (then) two completely untested players who would necessarily have to play and contribute, Fackrell and Elliott.

Now, the answer to your question about why Fackrell is playing so many snaps is that (1) GB has regularly rotated 3-4 OLBers the past few years, (2) Ted Thompson determined Fackrell was worthy of a 3rd round pick in the 2016 draft, (3) Ted Thompson is, or at least has been, devoted to getting his picks (especially his more premium picks) playing time, (4) Fackrell was projected to be the 3rd OLBer until just before the season began when Brooks was signed and he became the 4th OLBer, and (5) with injuries to Brooks & Perry and Clay not really able to go full-time any more the 4th OLBer/Fackrell was of course the next man up.

Now, a couple of questions I'm sure you'll provide answers to, do you think Kyler was the best option available as the 3rd/4th OLBer this offseason and do you think his play has warranted TT's faith in him?

It has nothing to do with expecting them to stay injury-free, but you also can't predict injuries.  Let me ask you this, why would a veteran pass rusher come to Green Bay to be our 4th OLBer?  And I'd be willing to bet the only reason you can come up with is a chance to win a Super Bowl, which quite frankly isn't a valid argument.  But I digress.

You weren't the only one who was skeptical about the OLB position.  I know I was, and it was a concern that was shared by others.  I thought it was risky coming into the 2017 season with Fackrell as the #3 OLB, and when the development that the Packers hoped would happen didn't happen they signed Ahmad Brooks.  You're telling me that you knew from the 15% defensive snaps he played in 2016 that you KNEW he wouldn't make any progression?  If that's the case, I'd like the Power Ball numbers.

As for the future for Fackrell, he's moving into that Khyri Thornton territory for me.  I think TT got too cute on this pick, and tried to find a very valuable skillset late in the draft.  You generally don't draft good pass rushers late in the draft.  They usually go early and often.  The next two pass rushers drafted AFTER Fackrell were Joe Schobert (1 career sack) and Charles Tapper (1 career sack).  After Charles Tapper was drafted 101st overall, the next pass rusher didn't go off the board until the 142nd pick.  I don't blame him for making the gamble, but it was one we knew had a ton of risk involved.

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3 hours ago, MNPackfan32 said:

I'm ready to usher in the Bradley Chubb era in Green Bay. We need an impact player on defense and at EDGE would be a great place.

This times 100. It'll be fun watching Chubb vs a great ND offensive line. But, yeah, it's time to draft an impact player like him for our D. 

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Clay Mathews at this point in his career is extremely overrated as a pass rusher. I think our biggest issue is the real lack of any pass rush on the D line. They are elite at holding the point of attack but they cannot get a pressure to save there lives. I don't know if Daniels is injured or what but we really need to see more pressure from him. 

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8 hours ago, NormSizedMidget said:

I might be reading this wrong but it sounds like you expect our fourth string OLB to be a "name" free agent.

Yeah, you're reading it wrong as I wanted a veteran or veterans brought in to compete for the 3rd OLB position once the team decided to move on from Peppers & D. Jones. Also, there are no "fourth string" OLBs on the Packers. 

After the Packers lost two guys who played a lot of snaps at OLB in 2016 all that was left behind Perry & Matthews were two untested players in Fackrell & Elliott.

Until September 3 (when Brooks was brought in), Fackrell was the 3rd OLBer (and Jayrone Elliott who is not currently on a NFL roster was the 4th).

The Packers (Thompson, Dom, Moss, and or McCarthy) obviously put a lot of faith in Kyler this offseason and due to the fact that he remains the 4th OLBer in a system where 4 OLBers regularly play and because Perry (yet again) and Brooks have sustained injuries he has gotten quite a bit of playing time at OLB through seven games.

In response to CWood's original question about why the pass rush has declined so precipitously in comparison to last season, I would say that Fackrell's 0 sacks despite extensive playing time have been a major contributor.

Counting on Fackrell to produce seems to have been a major miscalculation. Who is principally responsible for that miscalculation I do not know.

 

 

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Just now, deltarich87 said:

We knew OLB was one of the weakest groups on the team heading into the season so this wasn't a surprise. GB still desperately needs to add OLB and CB help again in the draft

That's the most frustrating aspect about it.  We knew it, and yet we didn't do anything about it.  We added Brooks, but that was too little too late.  There's no damn way in hell we should have let Peppers go back to Carolina. 

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2 hours ago, deltarich87 said:

We knew OLB was one of the weakest groups on the team heading into the season so this wasn't a surprise. GB still desperately needs to add OLB and CB help again in the draft

Backwards philosophy in GB these days ... they keep spending high draft picks on the secondary when they should be spending high picks on pass rushers.  Having little to no pass rush can make any secondary look ridiculous.  Thompson hasn't drafted an elite pass rusher in years.  He has't drafted an above average pass rusher in years.  

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Josh Jones had 2 quick sacks and I've not really seen him near the LOS since that game....

That tells me that maybe it is scheme based...the lack of sacks...and that may have a lot to do with the health of the team.

And I don't think it is getting better.  Biegle may add some youthful energy that the defense needs.  I'd like to see Adams get on the DL and spell Daniels once in a while.

But at the end of the day, this isn't an old defense, but it plays old and tired football.  It needs an infusion of energy, I would like to see them build a pressure D around Jones...maybe try him in the ole Woodson role...but keep his coverage duties limited.

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3 hours ago, TheOnlyThing said:

Yeah, you're reading it wrong as I wanted a veteran or veterans brought in to compete for the 3rd OLB position once the team decided to move on from Peppers & D. Jones. Also, there are no "fourth string" OLBs on the Packers. 

After the Packers lost two guys who played a lot of snaps at OLB in 2016 all that was left behind Perry & Matthews were two untested players in Fackrell & Elliott.

Until September 3 (when Brooks was brought in), Fackrell was the 3rd OLBer (and Jayrone Elliott who is not currently on a NFL roster was the 4th).

The Packers (Thompson, Dom, Moss, and or McCarthy) obviously put a lot of faith in Kyler this offseason and due to the fact that he remains the 4th OLBer in a system where 4 OLBers regularly play and because Perry (yet again) and Brooks have sustained injuries he has gotten quite a bit of playing time at OLB through seven games.

In response to CWood's original question about why the pass rush has declined so precipitously in comparison to last season, I would say that Fackrell's 0 sacks despite extensive playing time have been a major contributor.

Counting on Fackrell to produce seems to have been a major miscalculation. Who is principally responsible for that miscalculation I do not know.

 

 

That really doesn't make sense but I knew you'd timeline it. If we brought someone equal to Brooks in earlier you'd still want a fourth guy brought in. It's the same conversation we'd have. And he'd be the fourth guy up. That's all I meant. 

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3 minutes ago, NormSizedMidget said:

That really doesn't make sense but I knew you'd timeline it. If we brought someone equal to Brooks in earlier you'd still want a fourth guy brought in. It's the same conversation we'd have. And he'd be the fourth guy up. That's all I meant. 

You think it was wise to count on Fackrell & Elliott as OLBs 3 & 4 up until just a couple of days before the season opener? 

Lots of moving parts at OLB this offseason, but the team decided to move on from Peppers & Jones as soon as the season was over. Veteran options were available then to replace at least one of them. The Packers passed on those options. To me, that means the team had a lot of faith in Fackrell (& Elliott??).

At this point, I just hope Brooks can get back on the field and produce and Biegel can show us something -- though you keep telling me that it might be a tad unrealistic to count on a 4th round rookie to produce after coming off the PUP (which is true).

 

 

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8 minutes ago, TheOnlyThing said:

You think it was wise to count on Fackrell & Elliott as OLBs 3 & 4 up until just a couple of days before the season opener? 

Lots of moving parts at OLB this offseason, but the team decided to move on from Peppers & Jones as soon as the season was over. Veteran options were available then to replace at least one of them. The Packers passed on those options. To me, that means the team had a lot of faith in Fackrell (& Elliott??).

At this point, I just hope Brooks can get back on the field and produce and Biegel can show us something -- though you keep telling me that it might be a tad unrealistic to count on a 4th round rookie to produce after coming off the PUP (which is true).

 

 

Hell no. I've been begging to draft a pass rusher first two for what feels like ages.

I just don't think asking that your fourth OLB is a named FA is like this simple thing anyone would do. Doesn't mean I don't believe Kyler stinks.

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