EURO 2020

[Buc Ball]

18 hours ago, Kip Smithers said:

Disagree. Southgate is definitely holding them back (and I’ve been saying this for a long time now, so not saying this because they lost). But I don’t think the ceiling of this team is nearly as high as people think. It’s a flawed squad. Lacks balance. Midfield is most important part of football nowadays and England are average in that aspect compared to other nations. 
 

I think these past two tournaments (2018 and this Euros) have papered over the cracks. A LOT of things have inexplicably broken for them. 2018 that ridiculously easy path. This tournament again with an easy path, playing all games but 1 at Wembley, playing teams that have had to travel and having home fans in their stadium while restricting access to opposing fans. 

The midfield is serviceable at that level and there are ways to reduce its importance (width from the fullbacks, the two wide players from the front 3 tucking in as number tens). Mount, Henderson, Rice/ Phillips isn’t on the level of France’s or Italy’s midfield (to name a few), but it just needs to be functional and not necessarily the focal point of the team.

Teams generally need luck in these tournaments and England have had a lot in the last two, but you can only take the road in front of you. The only easy game England had in the knockouts was Ukraine (Denmark are very underrated and Germany are Germany). They also had a more difficult group than they seem to be getting credit for.
 

Overall, you’d have expected them to get to the final given how strong a team they have, but historically they’re massive bottle merchants, so should get credit for hitting their ceiling.

 

[Kip Smithers]

5 hours ago, Buc Ball said:

The midfield is serviceable at that level and there are ways to reduce its importance (width from the fullbacks, the two wide players from the front 3 tucking in as number tens). Mount, Henderson, Rice/ Phillips isn’t on the level of France’s or Italy’s midfield (to name a few), but it just needs to be functional and not necessarily the focal point of the team.

Teams generally need luck in these tournaments and England have had a lot in the last two, but you can only take the road in front of you. The only easy game England had in the knockouts was Ukraine (Denmark are very underrated and Germany are Germany). They also had a more difficult group than they seem to be getting credit for.
 

Overall, you’d have expected them to get to the final given how strong a team they have, but historically they’re massive bottle merchants, so should get credit for hitting their ceiling.

 

It’s serviceable when you play the lesser teams. But when you play a team with the stature of Italy it’s gonna hold you back big time. Midfield are what wins football matches majority of the time. Not necessarily just in terms of control or possession but having the right balance. You win the midfield battle you typically win. No point in having full Backs high and wide if you can’t consistently get the ball to them. 

Look at the names you rattled off. Phillips, Rice, Henderson, Mount (who isn’t really a natural midfielder). Good premier league players (apart from Mount who is proven to be a very good player no matter the stage) but on a bigger stage against top tier talent they get exposed. Denmark showed stretches of that in the Semis but didn’t have the legs to sustain it. 
 

what I’ll give them credit for is how they appear as a group. Seem like they’re united and have great togetherness. As for the quality they produced, it was disappointing 

[BlaqOptic]

On 7/11/2021 at 6:22 PM, DreamKid said:

 

I'll take Donnarumma any day of the week over Pickford as he's a top 5 GK in football, but Pickford had a better tournament, IMO. Chiellini was the key for Italy's defense.

[BlaqOptic]

On 7/11/2021 at 6:25 PM, lomaxgrUK said:

Can't be arsed second guessing penalties. Young teams have beaten old, old teams have beaten old.

Well done to Italy. I think they were the better team for sure on the night.

Frankly, I think the decision to sit so deep after the goal was a bad one without pace to play on the counter.

Like I said, well done to Italy. Worthy winners.

There was a second after an Italy corner where Kane and Sterling tried to spring for a counterattack. Pickford held the ball and then played it out the back and at that point I knew Italy was going to equalize at some point because Southgate wanted them to play slow and defend for 88 minutes after the goal.

[BlaqOptic]

On 7/11/2021 at 7:15 PM, mattyice0401 said:

I could be wrong but I think England is set up pretty nicely with their national team for future tournaments Id call it more of a stretch to say their window is closed than to say their window is just opening up when i think a lot of their team is really young. Although playing in a home match in the final is pretty hard to overcome.

This. Even if things were favorable with their draws and where they played they have a WC Semi-Final and a Euro Final with this young core with the veterans of this side being Walker, Hendo, and Kane. While I expect a decline from Walker and Kane over the next WC (and walker to not be in the next Euro side) they're a young side who are learning how to win.

[BlaqOptic]

On 7/11/2021 at 10:04 PM, Oregon Ducks said:

Despicable. This happened before England lost.

 

This is football hoolaganism everywhere though. I think there's no denying that football fans are the worst of all sports. What they consider "banter" is verbal assault here in the US.

[lomaxgrUK]

4 hours ago, BlaqOptic said:

This is football hoolaganism everywhere though. I think there's no denying that football fans are the worst of all sports. What they consider "banter" is verbal assault here in the US.

Hmm. This isn't traditional hooliganism, as such.

For those that don't know what is happening here - this is hundreds (if not thousands) of fans illegally breaking in to the ground via an entrance for disabled people. Affectionately known as 'jibbing' into the ground by match-going football fans.

The stewards are completely helpless to stop them. There isn't enough of them and frankly, they don't have the necessarily jurisdiction to use physical force to stop the fans entering. 

The fighting that you see is angry fans with tickets trying to subdue the fans that broken in. However, these fans with tickets have absolutely no legal right to subdue the fans breaking in, and as you can see from the footage, some of these ticketed fans are committing assault, if not Grievous Bodily Harm.

There are so many things you could discuss about this incident.

1) How RIDICIOUSLY underpoliced the event was. There is so much footage out there that shows this. 

2) The scummy nature of a small, but very loud and very obvious, drunken English football fans thinking they have the right to physically harm fans who have broken into the ground. 

3) The effrontery of those fans in the first place to use an entrance designed for those with a disability to steal their way into the match, resulting in some of said disabled fans missing the start of the game (including England's goal).

4) Not a topic the media want to discuss, but the pricing out of working class football fans that caused such a undersupply issue.
Tom Cruise seem to have no issues getting a ticket, but a lad from my local village told me on Sunday that he has been to Albania, Ukraine and Kosovo in the last 2 years following England via the supporters trust, but was unable to get a ticket.
No - I am not saying this justifies what took place. However, it is also a disgrace that corporate companies can control who gets in to the ground to watch such an event.

It's another blight on English football, which is just so frustrating because I thought the lads did us proud. A final for the first time in 55 years, and we conceded TWO goals all tournament. One was an amazing free kick, one was a scruffy second ball from a corner. 

No goals conceded from open play for an ENTIRE tournament. That is a credit to the discipline of the players and planning of the coaching staff. I don't care who you play, how you play; that is an incredible statistic.

Onwards and upwards.
 

[DreamKid]

9 minutes ago, lomaxgrUK said:

1) How RIDICIOUSLY underpoliced the event was. There is so much footage out there that shows this. 

Beyond those breaking into the event, it's clear the limited number of security officials also then enables the paying fans to act as gatekeepers or deputized(in their minds) enforcers of sorts against the trespassers. 

I get being upset about 'jibbing' or whatever it's called, especially when you personally might've shelled out an exorbitant amount of money for travel/lodging/tickets etc, but it's clear most of those engaging in physicality weren't doing so out of some noble motivation 😅. They just wanted to rough up others, and felt they had some level of impunity because it was trespassers they were beating on. Which is a dynamic you just can't have when trying to run a clean and professional sporting event.

Hopefully they take this as an example of what happens when you're not properly prepared and go about it better in the future. 

23 minutes ago, lomaxgrUK said:

Tom Cruise seem to have no issues getting a ticket, but a lad from my local village told me on Sunday that he has been to Albania, Ukraine and Kosovo in the last 2 years following England via the supporters trust, but was unable to get a ticket.

I'm sure prices were crazy, but there aren't too many events in the world Tom Cruise can't get into over your average Joe from the neighborhood. That's just kind of the nature of things. I don't think this event was special in that respect. 

27 minutes ago, lomaxgrUK said:

It's another blight on English football, which is just so frustrating because I thought the lads did us proud. A final for the first time in 55 years, and we conceded TWO goals all tournament. One was an amazing free kick, one was a scruffy second ball from a corner. 

No goals conceded from open play for an ENTIRE tournament. That is a credit to the discipline of the players and planning of the coaching staff. I don't care who you play, how you play; that is an incredible statistic.

I wouldn't take it to the heart, this stuff fades quick. Plus CONCACAF soccer is coming up. I'm sure some craziness will emerge from that and take the heat off the English, at least internationally. I mean Mexican fans pelted Gio Reyna(and others, including their own player) in the head with bottles last time they had a major game. 

As for on the pitch, I'm kind of curious how England supporters are viewing a couple things. So maybe you can help me out? Southgate's detractors have blasted his strategy this tourney, but as you pointed out- it yielded only two goals all tournament. So when the dust settles and all the discussion around making better use of his attacking resources and the penalty shootout drama dies down, what do think public opinion of him going forward will be? And then I'm also kind of curious about Harry Kane. How did you view his play throughout the tourney?

[lomaxgrUK]

35 minutes ago, DreamKid said:

I'm sure prices were crazy, but there aren't too many events in the world Tom Cruise can't get into over your average Joe from the neighborhood. That's just kind of the nature of things. I don't think this event was special in that respect. 

I am well aware of this; but I do think football is unique in that you have working class fans that will literally go to every single game (home, away) who then can't get a ticket because of corporate sponsors taking up a ridiculously large % of the ticket allocation.

How many other sports have fans that go to literally every single game, and then can't go to a final? It can't be many.

35 minutes ago, DreamKid said:

As for on the pitch, I'm kind of curious how England supporters are viewing a couple things. So maybe you can help me out? Southgate's detractors have blasted his strategy this tourney, but as you pointed out- it yielded only two goals all tournament. So when the dust settles and all the discussion around making better use of his attacking resources and the penalty shootout drama dies down, what do think public opinion of him going forward will be? And then I'm also kind of curious about Harry Kane. How did you view his play throughout the tourney?

The public viewpoint from a pure football perspective is a total mixbag. You've alluded to the things being said - bottled the final, didn't utilise the attacking talent, didn't use his subs properly etc.

And then the counter arguments are the lack of goals conceded, first final in 55 years, a penalty shootout away from winning it, etc.

For me, I think Southgate's biggest achievement (by some distance) is the collective spirit and culture he has managed to bring to the national team.

For many, many years England have suffered from a toxic culture within their national team camp. Gerrard, Ferdinand and Lampard have all made reference to club rivalries spilling into the national team camp during their illustrious careers, and it showed on the pitch.

Given the limited time you have with the players, it is very difficult to change a culture for a national team. The English fans themselves are worse than the players. I've no idea where it comes from, but we are so territorial and rivalries from cities literally 30 mins down the road somehow spill into feelings of the national team.

Southgate has created a brilliant togetherness amongst not only the players, but the fans too. It's the most likable coaching staff and playing squad in my lifetime. He's a fantastic leader with pretty much every trait you'd want from a managerial role.

Him being potentially knighted is obviously ridiculous and typical point scoring from politicians. But he's changed the entire attitude within the squad and it shows with performances on the pitch.

I don't care who you play - a Semi Final and a Final in consecutive major tournaments is a fantastic achievement. Especially for England.

Edited July 13, 2021 by lomaxgrUK

[Kip Smithers]

On 7/12/2021 at 12:15 AM, mattyice0401 said:

I could be wrong but I think England is set up pretty nicely with their national team for future tournaments Id call it more of a stretch to say their window is closed than to say their window is just opening up when i think a lot of their team is really young. Although playing in a home match in the final is pretty hard to overcome.

It’s not about window being closed. I don’t think their window was really ever open to win a major tournament because I don’t think that squad as a WHOLE is good enough and stacks up to rival squads. Loads of attacking talent in wider areas that can’t be denied but you can only play 2 max at a time. I’m not as high on the overall talent of this squad as others are. 

Edited July 13, 2021 by Kip Smithers

[KimuraGod]

On 7/12/2021 at 3:04 AM, Oregon Ducks said:

Despicable. This happened before England lost.

 

I’d give my right nut sack to fight each one of those morons 1v1. Ugly, fat and losers in life. Not much more to say. 

[Oregon Ducks]

This is almost unbelievable. ****ty, ****ty gamelan.

 

[Hunter2_1]

On 7/13/2021 at 3:45 AM, Kip Smithers said:

It’s serviceable when you play the lesser teams. But when you play a team with the stature of Italy it’s gonna hold you back big time. Midfield are what wins football matches majority of the time. Not necessarily just in terms of control or possession but having the right balance. You win the midfield battle you typically win. No point in having full Backs high and wide if you can’t consistently get the ball to them. 

Look at the names you rattled off. Phillips, Rice, Henderson, Mount (who isn’t really a natural midfielder). Good premier league players (apart from Mount who is proven to be a very good player no matter the stage) but on a bigger stage against top tier talent they get exposed. Denmark showed stretches of that in the Semis but didn’t have the legs to sustain it. 
 

what I’ll give them credit for is how they appear as a group. Seem like they’re united and have great togetherness. As for the quality they produced, it was disappointing 

100%

 

He will always lose to the likes of Italy/Spain...teams that want to dominate the ball in midfield and generally press-resistant, technical and control the pace etc. Southgate won't ever have an answer to this, it's not his style

[Hunter2_1]

On 7/13/2021 at 12:03 PM, xenajets said:

I’d give my right nut sack to fight each one of those morons 1v1. Ugly, fat and losers in life. Not much more to say. 

I've never been more embarrassed to be English. Some of our fans make me want to change my nationality, legally. It HAS to change. Not sure how, but it's got to

[Hunter2_1]

Thought it was a good tournament! Some AWESOME games and most goals since 1982 in a major tournament, I read.

 

My team;

 

Donnarumma

Shaw, Maguire, Bonucci (shout out to Kjaer, what a hero), Walker

Pedri, Pogba, Jorginho (shout out to Hjøbjerg)

Sterling, Schick, Chiesa

 

 

Edited July 18, 2021 by Hunter2_1