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2021 Green Bay Offensive Line


Refugee

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I figured we should get this started now that we have gotten a look at the '90' to begin this trial by fire.  Nothing matters if you can't win the trenches and GB has been true to that philosophy with great coaching and a mix of vet and young talent as they try to build a champion. Being a lineman is truly a mix of brawn, athleticism, smarts and attitude- a lot is required to run this system.  Let's see what the final line looks like but we won't get to where we want to go unless this unit is one of the best.  Here's a look at the current group of juggernauts.

 

Departed:

Corey Linsley (LAC) - Great center and community member, was a rock from the minute he stepped in. Salute!

Rick Wagner (unsigned)-Cut for cap reasons and never truly showing top level ability, future TBD

Lane Taylor (Hou)-Journeyman G who had starting experience but hit the IR 2 years in a row. All the best to Lane

Jared Veldheer-(unsigned, PED violation)  Was with GB for a playoff cup of coffee(& Covid). Well past his prime and not in good standing with the League

 

Starters:

David Afrosiab Assad Bahktiari- All world 9th year vet LT, paid like it, recovering from ACL surgery but in camp today working on the field

Elgton Jenkins- 3rd year rook G/T/C who has been nothing short of solid and generally incredible wherever he's played

Jon Runyan Jr.- 2nd year rook who saw some action and played well last year.  Big leap year for him. He may get opportunity and may be the first guy to sit if 69 is back.

Josh Myers- True rook and presumed starter hoping to fill the shoes of fellow Buckeye.  Outside of LT, how he steps in will have a lot to do with how this line plays.

Lucas Patrick- Undrafted 5th year G/C .  All this guy does is work and even if his replacement is already on the roster, he will be hard to beat out this year.

Billy Turner- 8th year vet, T/G.  Has had lapses but has made a good showing anywhere he was needed.  True pro with his versatility

 

Returned:

Yosh Nijman, mountain of a man and athletic T, can he put it all together? Big year for Yosh.  Zack Johnson G/T/Wookie trying to make the cut.  Ben Braden G/T, brought up several times from the PS last year, 27y/o.  Jake Hanson C/G drafted but hasn't made the 53 yet. Simon Stepaniak, G/Steamroller started last year on IR, brought in late but never saw much action. 

 

Rooks:

Josh Myer (2nd rd). Royce Newman (4th rd) T/G/Mulletcop.  Cole Van Lanen (6th rd) T/G/Hometown Hero.  John Dietzen OL/Other HH.  Coy Cronk OL. Jacob Capra OL.

 

How will it all shake out and who will make this team better this season and those to come?  Let the competition begin.

 

Edited by Refugee
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By week 8 (and probably week 1) Bakhtiari and Turner will start at the Tackles

There's a 4 man fight for the 2 interior spots that Jenkins doesn't play. While I think it's very unlikely that Jenkins starts anywhere but LG, that might not be a lock if something weird happens and 2 of the other 3 look tremendous at the Guard spots but not Center. 

Myers vs Patrick vs Hanson is the likely Center battle, Myers is clearly the best talent, but Patrick has a lot of reps here. Given what we know of Myers (which isn't a ton) I think he'll get the spot Day 1. He might not be the best player Day 1, but he probably is by week 18.

I wouldn't be stunned if Hanson gets cut. We didn't get to see much of him last year, but even if he gets cut, I don't think he's worthless, and might not even be bad, but as a pure Center you just have to be the best on the roster, and Hanson clearly isn't here. 

Runyan vs. Patrick vs. Stepanik vs. Newman at RG is going to be wild.

Patrick and Runyan were both passable last year. Runyan was a touch better, but Patrick wasn't bad in more snaps. Assuming Runyan put in the work this offseason, he's probably the favorite to start with Patrick as the supersub.

Newman's got the position change to deal with and is going to be the rawest, but he's the best athlete in this group and is probably the best fit if they're all at their best.

Stepanik should bounce back from his injury, in which case he's got the best drive skills. I don't think he's a super pure fit here, but again, I like the talent level. 

Best guess:

Starters: Bakhtiari-Jenkins-Myers-Runyan-Turner

Bench: Yijman-Newman-Patrick-Stepanik

PS: Hanson, VLL

Cut: Braden, Johnson, Capra, Cronk, Dietzen, 

I like Braden, I'm just not sure he's athlete enough to hang.

Johnson's still raw as hell, so unless he made incredible strides this offseason, he's not gonna make it.

I'm not convinced Dietzen doesn't suck.

Capra: former running mate of Hansen, haven't really watched him.

Cronk: former running mate of Stepanik, haven't really watched him. 

Edited by AlexGreen#20
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This is by far the strongest unit on the team and we all know that. However, we tend to forget how this unit is the strongest unit citing the multiple draft picks that are annually used to round out the OL, especially the IOL in recent years dating back to the Jenkins pick. Over the past year and a half, we've lost our starting RT and C to the same AFC team in successive years with RT being a rotation last year, but Center having multiple viable candidates to secure the position long-term.

That said, we've lost sight of the fact that we've quietly found(or have tried to find) long-term replacements for everyone on the OL except for Bakh who was just inked to a long-term deal(at least for Tackles) and Jenkins who I would suspect will get a second deal of at least 4-5 years minimum given his elite play as well. Center on Right is more of a ? given that Turner is going into year 3 of a 4 year deal IIRC, but we all knew he was signed essentially as a bridge type of player given the health issues with Bulaga and the hole we had at RG following Sitton and Lang's exits. IMHO, Royce Newman is Turner's replacement given that they are not only Guards who can kick to Tackle, but they're in that "swing Tackle" category that the team seems to covet; Zach Johnson is also in that category FWIW. We will always be bringing in at least 15-20 OL in any given camp, but again, I'm of the impression that if our draft picks play well, we could see a situation where we have our final 9 OL all but set in stone for a good 2-3 years simply because we gave Bakh a long-term deal and, again, will most likely give Jenkins a long and pricey contract when the time comes.

We DO know that Bakh and Jenkins will be starters as well as Turner this year and of course the question with the latter two is where they will play. It could easily be a situation where we have Myers step in immediately as the Center as assumed with Jenkins back at LG, Turner at RT, and a fight between Patrick and Runyan for Guard. Lucas Patrick is the wild card however and if Myers just isn't ready to step in and start Day 1, which I don't think he will be, we could easily see a situation with Runyan at LG, Jenkins at Center, Patrick at RG, and Turner at RT. Stepaniak, Myers, Newman, and Nijman would presumedly be the back-ups. I would suspect we'll see the traditional 5 starters but certain back-ups will get quality reps in certain packages and/or roles depending on the opponent and strategy. What's most likely is that we start with that line-up, but Myers slowly gets worked in at Center and gets reps at either Guard position. I don't see us cutting Jake Hanson given that he was injured as was Stepaniak IIRC; but I also see a situation where Hanson and Johnson wind up on the PS again along with Cole Van Lanen and Coy Cronk(if he can stay healthy). Dietzen and Capra are camp bodies IMHO but wouldn't be surprised if one of them snuck onto the PS or on someone else's PS and I don't see Nijman surviving the 2022 TC, maybe not this year's either IMO. 

Barring major injury, the depth chart should look at such at the END of 2021 with the first name listed as the starter:

LT: Bakh, Nijman
LG: Jenkins, Runyan, Stepaniak(?)
Center: Myers
RG: Runyan, Patrick, Stepaniak(?) Newman
RT: Turner, Newman, Nijman(?)

If all goes as planned, that group probably comes back as such for 2022 making 2023 an interesting discussion. I highly doubt Turner comes back unless it's on a team-friendly contract. Does that open the door for Newman to take over at RT? I think it does and wouldn't be surprised if Turner were to move to RG at some point in the season in 2021 or 2022 depending on Newman's progression. All signs clearly indicate that Newman is a player on the ascent who quickly adjusts to his assignments and executes them well though he is no world beater; there's obviously room for development and improvement which we all know our elite OL coaching staff can accomplish in a hurry. I also think we draft another LT to groom in the 2023 draft though I'm sure the pick could just as easily be made in next year's draft if the right prospect presents himself. I also think that Johnson can solidify himself as Newman's back-up though it wouldn't be surprising to see another OT drafted given Cole Van Lanen's challenges and Coy Cronk's injury history; 2022 may be the make-or-break year for one if not both of those players TBH.

Ergo, my initial prediction for the 2023 OL is as such, again with the first name listed as the starter:

LT: Bakh, draft pick
LG: Jenkins, Runyan, Stepaniak(?)
Center: Myers
RG: Runyan, Stepaniak(?), Johnson
RT: Newman, Johnson

 

I think the big take away from this entire situation is that we've been able to field a top-3 OL regardless of who the players have been, but more importantly we've done so without missing a beat when someone gets hurt and a sub comes in. Sure, Lucas Patrick is "super-sub" as someone else pointed out, but I really can't think of a single OL we've had play the past 3 seasons who has been an incredible liability at any position they've played. Sure, Turner was exposed as LT against TB and Lucas Patrick got mauled by Suh a few times, but it wasn't to the point of wondering of Allen Barbre was on the field.

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2 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

By week 8 (and probably week 1) Bakhtiari and Turner will start at the Tackles

There's a 4 man fight for the 2 interior spots that Jenkins doesn't play. While I think it's very unlikely that Jenkins starts anywhere but LG, that might not be a lock if something weird happens and 2 of the other 3 look tremendous at the Guard spots but not Center. 

Myers vs Patrick vs Hanson is the likely Center battle, Myers is clearly the best talent, but Patrick has a lot of reps here. Given what we know of Myers (which isn't a ton) I think he'll get the spot Day 1. He might not be the best player Day 1, but he probably is by week 18. ...

The way OL injuries role, it may be as likely that by the time Bakhti is back, one of the other top-6 guys will be out.  So we may never see which of them is 6th man.

In OTA1, they reportedly ran Jenkins-Runyan-Myers-Patrick-Turner as the first line.  I'll imagine that as the pre-Bakhti default alignment.  

Last year Patrick consistently started ahead of Runyan, so at that time the coaches still preferred Patrick.  I get the concept of Runyan beating out Patrick, and I'm not the scout that you guys are.  But with Patrick having tenure, the burden will be on Runyan to surpass him.  So when Bakh returns, and *if* Jenkins-Runyan-Myers-Patrick-Turner are all still healthy and available, I'm going to guess Patrick will win a Patrick/Runyan competition until/unless we get input to the contrary.  

Myers seems like such an important piece.  *IF* he's able to step right in, grab that center spot, and play it well, that would stabilize so much.  Unfortunately Myers getting the spot and playing it effectively are not necessarily the same, and at present we have no guarantee of either.  But things sure simplify and look a lot better with the hypothetical premise that Myers is the center and is good.  

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I agree that Myers immediately grabbing the center spot, that he was highly drafted to do, would settle this line as much as who plays LT early on . We have guys in Patrick and Jenkins who can play center but they might help us more at guard and tackle. A good center is smart and can make calls/adjustments on the fly on top of being in sync with the QB and stout at the point of attack. I think Myers has that capability but if he’s not yet ready, we need a vet to avoid any breakdowns. I’m still confident he will step up. 
 

Patrick is interesting, he’s fought for and earned all of his reps up to this point.  If young guys like Runyan and Stepaniak are kicking teeth in early on, he could possibly be a trade asset.  I wouldn’t like that because he’s a competent starter on a very modest contract. He should get a solid raise next year and probably not with us. I hope it’s a pure competition and not one settled by injury but you better have a plan for when they strike. Lucas can start or be a great 6th man.

Edited by Refugee
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Adam Stenavich on Ben Braden: "I'm really excited about Ben and what's going to happen with him. I think he's really going to compete for a starting job at guard or tackle."

It did raise an eyebrow for me the other day when he started and was running with the 1's ahead of Nijman at LT.

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50 minutes ago, R T said:

It did raise an eyebrow for me the other day when he started and was running with the 1's ahead of Nijman at LT.

Why? Jenkins is a proven commodity while Nijman has been a developmental guy over his entire NFL career.

 

2 hours ago, craig said:

The way OL injuries role, it may be as likely that by the time Bakhti is back, one of the other top-6 guys will be out.  So we may never see which of them is 6th man.

In OTA1, they reportedly ran Jenkins-Runyan-Myers-Patrick-Turner as the first line.  I'll imagine that as the pre-Bakhti default alignment.  

Last year Patrick consistently started ahead of Runyan, so at that time the coaches still preferred Patrick.  I get the concept of Runyan beating out Patrick, and I'm not the scout that you guys are.  But with Patrick having tenure, the burden will be on Runyan to surpass him.  So when Bakh returns, and *if* Jenkins-Runyan-Myers-Patrick-Turner are all still healthy and available, I'm going to guess Patrick will win a Patrick/Runyan competition until/unless we get input to the contrary.  

Myers seems like such an important piece.  *IF* he's able to step right in, grab that center spot, and play it well, that would stabilize so much.  Unfortunately Myers getting the spot and playing it effectively are not necessarily the same, and at present we have no guarantee of either.  But things sure simplify and look a lot better with the hypothetical premise that Myers is the center and is good.  

Let's not forget that Patrick has experience at Center as well, so if Myers isn't quite yet ready we could see Patrick there potentially. Under MLF, I have more confidence in our OL staying healthy. We saw how McCarthy fared in Dallas last year and it's very clear that he runs his practices VERY hard IMHO. I'm a bit more curious to see how Stepaniak, Johnson, Cronk, and Nijman fare in this particular camp. We have a pretty good handle on who is starting and who are the immediate back-ups, but Lane Taylor surprised us several years ago coming out of camp so I'm willing to guess that there will be a dark horse that'll emerge before the 3rd pre-season game.

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11 minutes ago, Joe said:

Why? Jenkins is a proven commodity while Nijman has been a developmental guy over his entire NFL career.

 

Let's not forget that Patrick has experience at Center as well, so if Myers isn't quite yet ready we could see Patrick there potentially. Under MLF, I have more confidence in our OL staying healthy. We saw how McCarthy fared in Dallas last year and it's very clear that he runs his practices VERY hard IMHO. I'm a bit more curious to see how Stepaniak, Johnson, Cronk, and Nijman fare in this particular camp. We have a pretty good handle on who is starting and who are the immediate back-ups, but Lane Taylor surprised us several years ago coming out of camp so I'm willing to guess that there will be a dark horse that'll emerge before the 3rd pre-season game.

What now?

McCarthy's entire time here everybody bitched that our players didn't hit enough in camp?

Also I feel like I'm in opposite world. We lost the NCFCG last year because of an offensive line injury?

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15 minutes ago, Joe said:

Why? Jenkins is a proven commodity while Nijman has been a developmental guy over his entire NFL career.

 

Let's not forget that Patrick has experience at Center as well, so if Myers isn't quite yet ready we could see Patrick there potentially. Under MLF, I have more confidence in our OL staying healthy. We saw how McCarthy fared in Dallas last year and it's very clear that he runs his practices VERY hard IMHO. I'm a bit more curious to see how Stepaniak, Johnson, Cronk, and Nijman fare in this particular camp. We have a pretty good handle on who is starting and who are the immediate back-ups, but Lane Taylor surprised us several years ago coming out of camp so I'm willing to guess that there will be a dark horse that'll emerge before the 3rd pre-season game.

What does Jenkins have to do with anything I quoted?

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