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Aaron Rodgers officially begins holdout by skipping Packers mandatory mini-camp


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On 6/16/2021 at 3:54 PM, GSUeagles14 said:

is it bingo though? I wonder how good GBs offense is with a league average QB instead of the reigning MVP and a likely top 5 of all timer. Lets think critically, why was GBs offense top 3? Because of the genius of Aaron Rodgers, or because of the duo of Davante Adams and Allen Lazard?

Or it could have been because of a very weak division.  Another thing that nobody has brought up is the possibility that the absence of crowds gave more experienced quarterbacks an abnormally big advantage last year. 

I know the first reaction for people will be "well they all played without crowds.  True, but 2020 was a season where the experienced QB's like Rodgers, Brady, etc. had the benefit of only having to read the defenses, and didn't have to deal with crowd noise at away games, which can be an equalizer when comparing them to QB's with less playing time and experience reading defenses.

Just a thought.

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5 hours ago, GSUeagles14 said:

cool story. i disagree that tonyan is above average and id guess youre in a pretty deep minority that Lazard and MVS are even close to average.  ANd while GBs oline was elite in the past, its fairly unlikely that they classify as that this year. But all this is just nonsense and pointless to debate as its purely subjective unless someone is throwing around incredibly foolish claims. 

Also, for clarities sake, what are you calling there supporting cast. like lets put a range on paper you wouldnt argue either way as your descroption is fairly vague. Would you say 10-15, 10-20? 8-15? 15-22? Indulge and just let us know what range you feel is fair.

Borderline top 10.

Tonyan was good this year. Did you watch him at all or are you just dismissing him because he's not as well known as the elite TEs in the league? I live in the Midwest so I end up watching a lot of Packers games. He was 2nd in DYAR and 1st in DVOA among TEs and Rodgers had a 148 passer rating when throwing to him. He was also 12th in receptions and yards and 2nd in TDs for TEs. So above average is perfectly fair considering the QB and that it was potentially just an outlier, rather than a breakout, season.

MVS and Lazard as averagish WR2 and WR3 isn't that controversial. Go through actual team rosters and look at their WR2/WR3. There aren't many that are head and shoulders above those two, imo. MVS was 34th in DYAR and 25th in DVOA for WRs with 50+ targets; Lazard was first in DYAR and 4th in DVOA for WRs with less than 50 targets. They're not amazing receivers and certainly have their flaws (drops being the most obvious), but that's how it is with most WR2/WR3. So again, after accounting for the fact that Rodgers was throwing them the ball, calling them an averagish WR2/WR3 is perfectly fair.

Edited by childofpudding
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14 hours ago, Uncle Buck said:

Or it could have been because of a very weak division.  Another thing that nobody has brought up is the possibility that the absence of crowds gave more experienced quarterbacks an abnormally big advantage last year. 

I know the first reaction for people will be "well they all played without crowds.  True, but 2020 was a season where the experienced QB's like Rodgers, Brady, etc. had the benefit of only having to read the defenses, and didn't have to deal with crowd noise at away games, which can be an equalizer when comparing them to QB's with less playing time and experience reading defenses.

Just a thought.

It's a great thought. I pointed the same thing out in-season. Huge advantage for good pre-snap QBs. It's no coincidence this was another career year for a guy like Rodgers who prides himself on pre-snap adjustments.

 

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12 hours ago, Joe_is_the_best said:

The way people are talking about Rodgers, it almost seems like he’s not the reigning MVP. Go ahead. Replace the MVP. I'm pretty sure the backup is just as good!

This mess makes it hard to reconcile MVP with him.   MVP's are above this.  He better win a bunch of football games after this is resolved or he will turn this drama into a big part of his legacy.  

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12 hours ago, Joe_is_the_best said:

The way people are talking about Rodgers, it almost seems like he’s not the reigning MVP. Go ahead. Replace the MVP. I'm pretty sure the backup is just as good!

He's pretty good at football and all, but the MVP voting is somewhat subjective.  There are a few QBs I'd take over him.

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Rodgers supporting cast in 2020 was top 5, easy.

  • Best WR (top 3 for sure)
  • Best O-line (or top 3)
  • Top 5 RB
    • 2 good backup RBs
  • Solid TE who played at pro bowl level
  • Cast of big yards per target complimentary receivers.
  • Great coaching staff
  • Advantageous system 
  • Almost fully made up of players and coaches from 2019 so the pandemic had less impact

As always, people are free to pretend otherwise.

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He's the reigning MVP and he's 38, a terrible leader, and a toddler throwing a hissy fit because he can't run the team. He's actually called for the GM that hired LaFleur and led them to back to back NFCCGs to be fired.

 

Who else was MVP recently?

So was Cam going into 2016 

  • The Panthers went 6-10

So was Ryan going into 2017

  • The Falcons went 10-6 and won 1 playoff game

So was Lamar going into 2020

  • The Ravens went 11-5 and won 1 playoff game

So was some egomaniac going into 2015

  • They went 10-6 and won 1 playoff game

Which of those results will be seen as successful for the 2021 Packers?

 

 

So was Mahomes going into 2019 but he was 24 years old and Rodgers is no Mahomes.

 

We can skip Tom Brady because Rodgers is nowhere near Brady.

 

Reigning MVPs that won the Super Bowl the next year in 55 tries.

Starr(1), Bradshaw(1), Favre(1), Brady(1), Mahomes(1)

Rodgers himself is 0-2

Edited by SkippyX
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On 6/19/2021 at 12:07 AM, NudeTayne said:

He's pretty good at football and all, but the MVP voting is somewhat subjective.  There are a few QBs I'd take over him.

Going forward? Sure I'd take a few over him. Last season though, he deserved the MVP, and that can't be argued.

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On 6/19/2021 at 12:03 AM, offbyone said:

This mess makes it hard to reconcile MVP with him.   MVP's are above this.  He better win a bunch of football games after this is resolved or he will turn this drama into a big part of his legacy.  

Being a prick doesn't mean you're not MVP. The way people are hand waving MVP awards is mind-boggling.

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2 hours ago, Joe_is_the_best said:

Going forward? Sure I'd take a few over him. Last season though, he deserved the MVP, and that can't be argued.

Agreed; however, this is all about going forward, fwiw.

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Aaron Rodgers looks like the biggest clown on earth.  

I mean, how can he go golfing with Tom Brady when he has one Super Bowl and Brady's standing there with seven?  

That's just not a good image for him.

If he's trying to make a statement in Green Bay, I would have picked a different opponent for the golf match.  

Edited by RamblinMan99
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2 hours ago, RamblinMan99 said:

Aaron Rodgers looks like the biggest clown on earth.  

I mean, how can he go golfing with Tom Brady when he has one Super Bowl and Brady's standing there with seven?  

That's just not a good image for him.

If he's trying to make a statement in Green Bay, I would have picked a different opponent for the golf match.  

Just 1 superbowl. Something that only ~25-30 men have accomplished in their life (starting QB to win a superbowl). What a total clown. 

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32 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

Just 1 superbowl. Something that only ~25-30 men have accomplished in their life (starting QB to win a superbowl). What a total clown. 

Bro, most of us posters have at least 1 Superbowl. We're just not attention-seekers like Rodgers. We prefer to maintain a low profile.

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