Hicks trade smoke is back

[soulman]

1 minute ago, WindyCity said:

They bought Quinn, Foles, and Trevathan on credit.

Covid 100% screwed that up. But whether they thought they could afford them or not, the contracts are still hideous.

I can think I can afford a Bentley, it does not change the fact that realistically I cannot.

I get it Windy but your point of view is not the same as mine which I've at least tried to align more with that of Pace and Laine.

You're entitled to your opinion but it won't change a thing.  What was done is not out of line with what other teams have done as well.

Look at the 2021 deal TB gave Ndamukong Suh whose 34 years old.  It's a $9 mil gtd one year deal with just a $3 mil cap hit.  The remaining $6 mil is spread out over 4 void years with $6 mil of dead cap in 2022.

To you they're "hideous" yet it's what many teams are doing now while kicking the can down the road to years when the cap will be much higher.  My guess is once the cap hits $220 mil and rising annually again we'll see less of this kind of deal.

I'm not into dealing with shoulda type past history analysis only current and future analysis and how best to deal with it.

[JAF-N72EX]

Who cares about dead-cap right now after COVID. It's an anomaly.....not the norm. The NFLPA and owners will figure it out as they go just like they have. 

This is just another windy complaining just for the sake of complaining. He can't spend an entire offseason harping on Pace about anything else right now so he's gotta find something and chooses "dead-cap" LMAO.

 

 

[JAF-N72EX]

On 6/13/2021 at 6:29 AM, soulman said:

His deal runs through 2021 so there's $1.5 mil of amortized signing bonus charged against the cap each year with this year being the final year.  That's his dead cap.  But this is a book entry only.  It's part of the cash he received in 2017 not cash he's receiving in 2021.

Reading back on my post I was wrong about the structure. I completely forgot it was an extension and not a new deal and I also thought for sure Pace added a void year to his contract (like he did with virtually everyone else on the team) but after doing a little more research it turns out he never did because google is looking at me like I'm crazy right now.

Anyways, just an FYI brother the 1.5M isn't part of the signing bonus (despite sportrac placing it under the label "signing"), it's part of the 8M injury clause in his contract. 2M in 2017 + 6M spread out in increments of 1.5x 4 years= 8M.

The signing bonus was only 7.5M and it was not amortized over the length of the contract. Instead, it was paid in the form of making his base salary(4.5) + roster bonus (3.5) both fully gtd in 2018. The excess 500k was just a reporting bonus for showing up to camp in 2017 as part of his initial deal.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/bears/ct-akiem-hicks-contract-guaranteed-money-20170914-story.html

 

Quote

 

2018

Base salary $4.5 million fully guaranteed

Roster bonus $3 million fully guaranteed and due third day of league year

Reporting bonus $500,000

Workout bonus $100,000

Cash total $8.1 million

 

 

Basically the deal was a 4/48 deal with 22M upfront with an additional 8M in gtd money but only if he stayed healthy enough to earn an accrued season for each individual year of the contract plus an additional possibility of 4.5M of the 8 becoming fully gtd after 2 years if he stayed healthy.

In other words, the FO pretty much told Hicks;  "we will give you 22M in fully gtd money with the possibility of earning an additional 8M gtd based on availability. But that 8M is only on a year-to-year basis and isn't fully gtd until you show us you can stay healthy for the next 2 years. We'll pay you individually for each year that you stay healthy for the first 2 years of the contract individually---2M at the end of 2017 and another 1.5 for 2018 (he was already paid 500k from his initial deal)--and If you do that then the remaining 4.5M will be fully gtd regardless of whether if you're healthy or not.

https://overthecap.com/player/akiem-hicks/1472/

Quote

Akiem Hicks signed a four year, $48 million contract extension with the Chicago Bears on September 9, 2017. The first reported breakdown of the contract comes from Brad Biggs of the Chicago Tribune so please credit him if using this information.  Hicks' contract contains $22 million fully guaranteed at signing, including a $7.5 million signing bonus and Hicks' 2017 and 2018 salaries as well as a March roster bonus worth $3 million which is paid in 2018.

 

The 22M fully guaranteed money was broken down like this;

(Red represents the entire 22M in fully guaranteed money and the blue represents the 7.5M signing bonus in the form of base salary and roster bonus.

 

The structure for the additional 8M is broken down like this;

(Red represents each individual year that was guaranteed and the green represents the fully guaranteed years)

 

On 6/13/2021 at 6:29 AM, soulman said:

2020 is where things get a little odd because according to this he still has $13.3 mil in dead cap remaining which only adds up if $10 mil of his salary was guaranteed as well and that would seem to be the case. 

That's because spotrac is wrong again and you hit the nail on the head as to why. His base salary was not guaranteed. The only gtd money that was left on his contract for 2020 was the 3M we still owed to him out of the 8M for the injury clause (1.5 for 2020 + 1.5 for 2021). Therefore, his dead-cap in 2020 would've only been 3M.  Which is why his dead-cap this year is only 1.5M---the last year of his injury clause. The cap hit savings would've been 8.8M in 2020 and )

Off-topic, but this is just another example of why I don't trust spotrac and prefer OTC. Spotrac posts their data as if it's fact, while OTC will always posts their sources if they can. Plus the founder (Jason) actually goes to places like Halas Hall and talks with team GMs, contract negotiators, coaches, scouts, team members, etc and has built a strong relationship with them.

 

[soulman]

1 hour ago, JAF-N72EX said:

Off-topic, but this is just another example of why I don't trust spotrac and prefer OTC. Spotrac posts their data as if it's fact, while OTC will always posts their sources if they can. Plus the founder (Jason) actually goes to places like Halas Hall and talks with team GMs, contract negotiators, coaches, scouts, team members, etc and has built a strong relationship with them.

Thanks brother.  This makes a whole lot more sense now although the numbers Spotrac used they say were attributed to Brad Biggs summary of them.  Despite that stuff didn't add up which is why I wanted to point that out in my summary.

I'm not as accustomed to following OTC's format as I am Spotrac's but it looks like I need to get more accustomed to it especially with the more complex structure extensions can create.  Theoretically both should agree but I've found many instances where they do not.

Edited June 16, 2021 by soulman

[abstract_thought]

5 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

The 22M fully guaranteed money was broken down like this;

(Red represents the entire 22M in fully guaranteed money and the blue represents the 7.5M signing bonus in the form of base salary and roster bonus.

 

The structure for the additional 8M is broken down like this;

(Red represents each individual year that was guaranteed and the green represents the fully guaranteed years)

 

Not quite... The 7.5M hits the cap as a prorated bonus, 1.5M over 5 years from 2017 to 2021. There is 0.5M of prorated bonus money leftover from his initial contract.

What you've highlighted in blue can't be a signing bonus because it's... a roster bonus. It's not prorated against the cap.

What you've highlighted in red is not all fully guaranteed. The 2019 base salary was guaranteed only for injury.

So you have:

Full Guarantees:

7.5M Bonus prorated over 5 years

7M Base salary (2017)

4.5M Base salary (2018)

3.5M Roster bonus (2018)

Total: 22.5M

Guaranteed for Injury:

8M Base salary (2019)

Total: 30.5M

[WindyCity]

9 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

Who cares about dead-cap right now after COVID. It's an anomaly.....not the norm. The NFLPA and owners will figure it out as they go just like they have. 

This is just another windy complaining just for the sake of complaining. He can't spend an entire offseason harping on Pace about anything else right now so he's gotta find something and chooses "dead-cap" LMAO.

 

 

The cap reality is a thing and something they need to work through. The discussion is not harping on Pace it is about how best to manage the 2020 contracts that are causing problems and how to maximize space for the new QB.

Having a discussion about the issues this team is facing is valid conversation. 

The owners are not doing **** to figure it out. The cap next year is ceilinged at 208 million, which is 20 million lower than most teams had projected. The owners are getting their money back and the cap can be damned.

Edited June 16, 2021 by WindyCity

[WindyCity]

22 hours ago, soulman said:

I get it Windy but your point of view is not the same as mine which I've at least tried to align more with that of Pace and Laine.

You're entitled to your opinion but it won't change a thing.  What was done is not out of line with what other teams have done as well.

Look at the 2021 deal TB gave Ndamukong Suh whose 34 years old.  It's a $9 mil gtd one year deal with just a $3 mil cap hit.  The remaining $6 mil is spread out over 4 void years with $6 mil of dead cap in 2022.

To you they're "hideous" yet it's what many teams are doing now while kicking the can down the road to years when the cap will be much higher.  My guess is once the cap hits $220 mil and rising annually again we'll see less of this kind of deal.

I'm not into dealing with shoulda type past history analysis only current and future analysis and how best to deal with it.

2021 deals are not my issue. That had to be done. Dalton, Ifedi, Gipson, Williams, there really is not way around that considering the circumstances.

The best way to deal with it is to make some hard decisions about what you are doing in 2021. There are moves that can be made in 2021 that would make the team worse on the field, but put them in a better situation moving forward.

[WindyCity]

The Bears have 2 options

*trading Nick Foles is the best interest of both options

1. Focus on 2021

Keep things the same and deal with the reduced cap in 2021.

2. Focus on 2022

Trade Hicks [Goldman makes this harder], maybe release Graham [won't happen], try and generate some extra picks, and stack resources for 2022.

[soulman]

1 hour ago, WindyCity said:

2021 deals are not my issue. That had to be done. Dalton, Ifedi, Gipson, Williams, there really is not way around that considering the circumstances.

The best way to deal with it is to make some hard decisions about what you are doing in 2021. There are moves that can be made in 2021 that would make the team worse on the field, but put them in a better situation moving forward.

Possibly but you act as if you believe they aren't aware of this.

Given how this bunch goes about things and the kind of preparation Joey Laine is famous for my bet is they have spread sheets and an analysis of their cap situation stretching out at least through 2024.

I'd also be willing to bet Pace and his Pro Scouting group are already evaluating potential 2022 UFAs they would be interested in pursuing and since they're getting paid and I'm not I'll let them do the heavy lifting.

They are gonna do what they're gonna do and decide on it with far more info than you or I could ever hope to have.

[WindyCity]

8 minutes ago, soulman said:

Possibly but you act as if you believe they aren't aware of this.

Given how this bunch goes about things and the kind of preparation Joey Laine is famous for my bet is they have spread sheets and an analysis of their cap situation stretching out at least through 2024.

I'd also be willing to bet Pace and his Pro Scouting group are already evaluating potential 2022 UFAs they would be interested in pursuing and since they're getting paid and I'm not I'll let them do the heavy lifting.

They are gonna do what they're gonna do and decide on it with far more info than you or I could ever hope to have.

I do not think that they are unaware of this. I also understand that they are going to do what they are going to do. But this is a message board and the entire purpose is to discuss these things.

 

[soulman]

2 hours ago, WindyCity said:

I do not think that they are unaware of this. I also understand that they are going to do what they are going to do. But this is a message board and the entire purpose is to discuss these things.

 

Discuss, yes.  Debate, yes.  Beat to death when there are no real answers, only speculation?  No.

I'm outta here for a bit brother so discuss away.....LOL

[Heinz D.]

7 hours ago, soulman said:

Possibly but you act as if you believe they aren't aware of this.

I'm sure he recognizes that they have at least a broad understanding of what's going on with the cap. 

I'm willing to bet that he's worried they're not looking at the entire situation reasonably. I'm not so sure of that, either. 

[WindyCity]

39 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

I'm sure he recognizes that they have at least a broad understanding of what's going on with the cap. 

I'm willing to bet that he's worried they're not looking at the entire situation reasonably. I'm not so sure of that, either. 

Fields changes the approach. Because they have been very loose and now we need to get serious.

[JAF-N72EX]

12 hours ago, WindyCity said:

The cap reality is a thing and something they need to work through. The discussion is not harping on Pace it is about how best to manage the 2020 contracts that are causing problems and how to maximize space for the new QB.

You're basing this whole "sky is falling" idea around dead cap. DEAD CAP in 2020 at that!  Not cap space moving forward, or not having the right personnel or players to put Fields in a better position to succeed....no.....DEAD CAP is your concern right now.

There's nothing to work through. The 2020 contracts are not causing any problems for the future. What are you talking about? The team is already set for 2021 and trying to predict next year's cap is futile because so much can happen from now until then. How the hell does dead-cap in 2021 affect whether or not we can build around Fields in the future when the roster has practically already been made? First, you complain about the dead money in 2021 and future cap for 2022 and you post a link to OTC showcasing the "high" dead-cap for 2021 but somehow ignore the fact the Bears have 13th highest cap in 2022. Second, you ignore the reason as to why the dead-cap is so high (which soul already pointed out to you).

All of this is borderline clinically insane for so many reasons.

Face it, this is another example of you doing your typical offseason trolling/complaining just for the sake of it. Every year you post about how the Bears are in cap trouble, they suck, they can't sign anyone, Pace sucks, blah blah blah, and you throw out random numbers with no context and every year you are wrong. This **** is old. Get a new shtick. 

 

12 hours ago, WindyCity said:

The owners are not doing **** to figure it out. The cap next year is ceilinged at 208 million, which is 20 million lower than most teams had projected before COVID. The owners are getting their money back and the cap can be damned.

FIFY.

Who cares about projected numbers when an unexpected anomaly happens. You seem to be forgetting there was a worldwide pandemic going on that nobody expected, and for some odd reason you seem to be intent on using it against owners to prove a bad point. Do you think people cared about their "projected bills" when they suddenly lost their businesses and jobs due to COVID? 

Hate the owners all you want (and generally I do too) but they absolutely are figuring it out and have made their own financial sacrifices for it and the way they have handled this COVID ordeal should be applauded.

But since you're the type to just spew opinionated garbage nonsense with no context behind it, I'm gonna put you to a test here. Explain exactly how owners ****ed it up with COVID? I can't wait for this. But I'll probably get another typical "because" like response followed by 4 words that offers no more context than the last post.

 

[JAF-N72EX]

17 hours ago, abstract_thought said:

There is 0.5M of prorated bonus money leftover from his initial contract.

 

No it wasn't. Otherwise, his guaranteed money for 2017 would've been 7.5 and not 7M flat.

He signed a 2/10 deal in 2016 with 5M guaranteed and that was paid in full during his first year at the date of signing the contract (4M in signing bonus and 1M in the form the base salary).

17 hours ago, abstract_thought said:

What you've highlighted in blue can't be a signing bonus because it's... a roster bonus.

That's blatantly false. This is why we're talking about Hicks contract in the first place.  It's a very common practice for teams to use roster bonus as part of the signing bonus. 

Ultimately, it's just used as an exploit for paper and cap implications.