Raiders sign LB Darron Lee and CB De’Vante Bausby

[NYRaider]

5 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

I think Deablo was drafted to be a "rover" type player anyways. He has a nice skillset. If he's coached up I'll be surprised if he busts.

But he's already hurt, no?

[ronjon1990]

Idk who Bausby is, and outplaying Arnette doesn't impress me (I thought he was garbage). 

Lee, I'm cool with. The Jets were bad. He bounced and played with Buffalo and KC....er.....was on their rosters. Not a bad shot to take. 

[RaidersAreOne]

 

[BayRaider]

Good special teams move.

[NYRaider]

13 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Good special teams move.

Special teams war daddy Tanner Muse better come to camp ready

[MrOaktown_56]

22 hours ago, NYRaider said:

But he's already hurt, no?

Let's see how he's doing for training camp.

[MrOaktown_56]

6 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Special teams war daddy Tanner Muse better come to camp ready

This was probably our worst pick in Mayock's tenure, with Ferrell and Bowden close behind.

[NYRaider]

18 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

This was probably our worst pick in Mayock's tenure, with Ferrell and Bowden close behind.

Abram and Arnette right up there as well. 

[jimkelly02]

I actually really like the Darron Lee signing. He’s still young and really fast and could be a spot starter.  He could very well get cut in camp too.  But It could be a very good depth Move.

[Mr Raider]

1 hour ago, jimkelly02 said:

I actually really like the Darron Lee signing. He’s still young and really fast and could be a spot starter.  He could very well get cut in camp too.  But It could be a very good depth Move.

I agree. 

Lee was actually one of my bigger misses of the past 5 or so years. I loved him coming out. Off the top of my head I believe I only had Ramsey, Floyd (would probably also classify as a pretty big miss as I thought he was going to be a premier edge rusher that offered a lot of versatility), Buckner, Rankins, and Shaq Lawson ahead of him in terms of defensive players on my big board. I believe I had him as a top 15 overall player. I thought he was the perfect LB in the new era of football. I thought while he would struggle sheading blocks and trying to dominate coming downhill in the run game, I thought those would be minor concerns as he would be a LB that could move like a safety and be a TE eraser, make a ton of plays in the flats and short and deep zones in pass coverage, and would be impossible to scheme against with his ability to do that and cover ground sideline to sideline. 

I obviously ended up greatly underestimating his faults in the physical aspects of football for a LB even in a more pass friendly league and how much that would impact his ability to live up to expectations. I believe he's still had moments of grading really positively from PFF and such in pass coverage, but those seem to be on very limited snaps. He's been a bust. 

None of us should see this signing as a lock to be a big impact because he will have to earn even a roster spot. All that said however, I still like the signing and think there's some room for him to carve out a role here and have success. The special teams point is a good one. His athletic skill set could make him a special teams ace, and Bradley has had a lot of success and seems to really like LBs that move at an elite level. And our LB core isn't exactly proven with top tier talent, nor does it have great depth. You can do a lot worse than a former first round pick that is an elite athlete for his position for chump change that you can get out of any time. If he can offer something to special teams and provide some depth at LB because they think he can fill a very specific role, particularly if injuries happen, it's a win. 

I'll say he ends up making the team, but likely because of special teams ability and in part because I think so little of Muse. More than likely Muse fills that role and Lee gets cut, but it's possible that will simply be because Muse was just drafted pretty early, even though he was drafted there because the staff reached on him. Muse clearly showed he wasn't ready last year and the staff tried to hide it behind an injury. They won't be able to do that this year. But I just don't see it with him. And as much as Lee has under preformed, I still think I'd probably take a chance on him. The staff will likely go the other way. But hopefully guys like Littelton, Deablo, Lee, Morrow, make Muse earn it if he gets one of the LB roster spots. 

I still question who is playing SLB because I feel like most of our LBs fit the MLB or WLB role significantly better and don't really have the skill set to be the traditional SLB. But I suppose in todays day in age where you are in the nickel 70+ percent of the time that's one spot you can get away with putting someone there that may not be the perfect skill and scheme fit. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

On 6/19/2021 at 3:42 PM, NYRaider said:

Abram and Arnette right up there as well. 

Don’t forget hr3 first wr picked with 3rd rounder production

[Mr Raider]

35 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Don’t forget hr3 first wr picked with 3rd rounder production

I don't think Ruggs is really comparable to Arnette or Abram when talking about worst pick or biggest reach. 

I didn't think Ruggs was the correct choice over Lamb (my top WR in the draft) at the time, and I still don't with one year of hindsight. But I did think Ruggs was the better choice over Jeudy. Production is great and all, but you draft traits. Production is sometimes fleeting and volatile when trying to project it to the NFL. I was lower on most than Jeudy, but I would bet on Ruggs elite athleticism, his ridiculous long speed, explosion, big hands, and ability (when evaluating in college) to do more than just run go routes. Of course Jeudy is going to be more productive when used in the roll he was at Alabama compared to Ruggs who because of his speed and the other guys around him was forced more into being the decoy and splash play guy. It doesn't mean that is all he is capable of. It means Alabama wins with defense and dominant run game, they used Ruggs as a way to open that run game up. Which is a similar thing we did in Ruggs rookie year. 

The problem is, we are letting our staff potentially waste assets more valuable because he has ridiculous athletic gifts by deploying him like that is all he can do without even really giving him anywhere near enough opportunities to show if he's capable of more. 

I think even after looking at his rookie season it's silly to throw Ruggs in with the group of reaches or bad picks during this front offices time here. Rookie WRs used to regularly be expected to not pay off immediately. A year or two was expected before they really started to produce. Obviously some guys now will hit the ground running, but there are still countless examples of guys needing a year or two to make the transition. Ruggs did show flashes, and it was easy to see how much defenses feared what he could do. 

Will he ultimately be the best pick we could have made with hindsight? Time will tell. But if he is what I think he can be, it won't be an argument worth having. Ruggs is a very different thing compared to Arnette or Abram. Arnette especially. Nobody thought he was worth a first round pick. Nobody loved him for anything whethet it's technique, athletic ability, etc. He was a guy some liked when they were viewing him as a second or third round pick. 

Ruggs may not have been your top choice, and he may not have been a lot of peoples top WR, but he was pretty universally seen as a lock first rounder, a talent worthy of a top 15 selection, and most argued that the top 3 wideouts brought unique things to the table and didn't have a lot separating them on the whole. Perhaps we will look back and regret not taking Lamb or Jefferson or whoever. It's possible. But without total hindsight Ruggs was in no way a reach on the level of someone like Arnette. Ruggs was in the same group with other first round WR. It was more about what flavor you needed. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

2 hours ago, Mr Raider said:

I don't think Ruggs is really comparable to Arnette or Abram when talking about worst pick or biggest reach. 

I didn't think Ruggs was the correct choice over Lamb (my top WR in the draft) at the time, and I still don't with one year of hindsight. But I did think Ruggs was the better choice over Jeudy. Production is great and all, but you draft traits. Production is sometimes fleeting and volatile when trying to project it to the NFL. I was lower on most than Jeudy, but I would bet on Ruggs elite athleticism, his ridiculous long speed, explosion, big hands, and ability (when evaluating in college) to do more than just run go routes. Of course Jeudy is going to be more productive when used in the roll he was at Alabama compared to Ruggs who because of his speed and the other guys around him was forced more into being the decoy and splash play guy. It doesn't mean that is all he is capable of. It means Alabama wins with defense and dominant run game, they used Ruggs as a way to open that run game up. Which is a similar thing we did in Ruggs rookie year. 

The problem is, we are letting our staff potentially waste assets more valuable because he has ridiculous athletic gifts by deploying him like that is all he can do without even really giving him anywhere near enough opportunities to show if he's capable of more. 

I think even after looking at his rookie season it's silly to throw Ruggs in with the group of reaches or bad picks during this front offices time here. Rookie WRs used to regularly be expected to not pay off immediately. A year or two was expected before they really started to produce. Obviously some guys now will hit the ground running, but there are still countless examples of guys needing a year or two to make the transition. Ruggs did show flashes, and it was easy to see how much defenses feared what he could do. 

Will he ultimately be the best pick we could have made with hindsight? Time will tell. But if he is what I think he can be, it won't be an argument worth having. Ruggs is a very different thing compared to Arnette or Abram. Arnette especially. Nobody thought he was worth a first round pick. Nobody loved him for anything whethet it's technique, athletic ability, etc. He was a guy some liked when they were viewing him as a second or third round pick. 

Ruggs may not have been your top choice, and he may not have been a lot of peoples top WR, but he was pretty universally seen as a lock first rounder, a talent worthy of a top 15 selection, and most argued that the top 3 wideouts brought unique things to the table and didn't have a lot separating them on the whole. Perhaps we will look back and regret not taking Lamb or Jefferson or whoever. It's possible. But without total hindsight Ruggs was in no way a reach on the level of someone like Arnette. Ruggs was in the same group with other first round WR. It was more about what flavor you needed. 

Potential vs production. I’ll take production every time. Having a guy like nelly come and show hr3 up wasn’t a good look. I also don’t think he’s big/strong/durable enough to run all the routes especially over the middle. Hopefully I’m wrong cause we need him to produce. 

[MrOaktown_56]

1 hour ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Potential vs production. I’ll take production every time. Having a guy like nelly come and show hr3 up wasn’t a good look. I also don’t think he’s big/strong/durable enough to run all the routes especially over the middle. Hopefully I’m wrong cause we need him to produce. 

You have some points but he definitely didn't have 3rd round production in college. And Gruden horrendously misused him last year. I like to give WR's a little time this year. If he doesn't make a big leap this year though, I'll be disappointed. I think he will.

[Mr Raider]

1 minute ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

You have some points but he definitely didn't have 3rd round production in college. And Gruden horrendously misused him last year. I like to give WR's a little time this year. If he doesn't make a big leap this year though, I'll be disappointed. I think he will.

Agreed with you Oaktown. 

I'm not at all saying that I think he was used well last season, or that I believe he's the type of WR that is going to be a dominant threat in all areas that will give you 100 catches a year. That isn't his game. And he will need to prove at the NFL level he can go over the middle and make the tough catches and all of that. He did show some flashes there as a rookie but we really didn't even use him in a way that lent itself to showing his skills there. We basically sent him on go routes, fake jet sweeps, and basically that was it. 

I don't really take issue or think it was a bad look, at least when talking about Ruggs himself and not the coaching staff, to have NA out produce him last season. Like I mentioned WR is a spot that used to be notorious for rookies not producing great as rookies, Gruden has a lengthy history of relying on veterans and bringing young guys on very slowly (much slower than almost any other coach), and I don't think it can be overstated when talking about a rookie wideouts first season playing under a coach notorious for not putting a lot on a rookies plate, it was a covid shortened year. No training camp, no preseason, significantly less time actually on the field together. That is a situation any rookie could struggle to show all their skills. But you pair that rookie with a QB that almost all fans acknowledge how much he locks onto the guys he is most comfortable with, a run first offense with an elite TE, a coach that even in normal off seasons brings rookies along slowly, and not even being able to gain chemistry or be brought along the way every other player in NFL history has experienced their first year? Yeah that's a situation designed for the 5+ year NFL veteran (that was a former first round pick himself) to out produce the raw rookie. 

Honestly Agholor's success and career saving type of season with us last year actually makes me significantly more confident in Ruggs. I would argue Ruggs has better athletic tools as he's bigger and faster than Nelson who is no slouch in the speed department, is better at the more nuanced parts of his game (though like Agholor he isn't the most natural there), has significantly better hands, and showed more big play ability than Nelson did in his first season. Nelson last year showed me that Ruggs should be able to provide THAT type of season/production for us in a Gruden run offense, ran by DC. I think Ruggs has a ceiling of a Desean Jackson type, and while I think Lamb has a Hopkins type ceiling and thus would have been my selection, if Ruggs can be that he will be worth the selection. And I think Ruggs safe, middle ground between his ceiling and floor is a guy that produces like Nelson did for us for a handful of years. Nelson having a career resurgence leads me to believe that in a normal off season with camp and practices for Ruggs to take Nelson's spot last from last season to gain familiarity and chemistry with DC, Gruden can deploy Ruggs in virtually the same role and get that same type of production. And honestly I think it's reasonable to think Ruggs can be even a little better because of his better tools and because Nelson didn't get much run for the first several weeks. Not to mention Ruggs was dealing with injuries for a good chunk of the year on top of the totally unique covid year and a coach that keeps rookies in the doghouse and a QB that needs to gain chemistry with guys over time before really looking their way unless they are wide open. 

Nelson last year was an encouraging sign to me for Ruggs ability here because it shows Gruden can use that type of skill set and get explosive plays to open things up for Jacobs and Waller. Ruggs to me does need to show he's taken a step this year. He needs to prove he can stay healthy, he needs to prove he can do more than run go routes (which really means Gruden needs to let him do the things NA did last year inside the offense), he needs to gain chemistry with Carr. Simply he needs to develop. But Nelson now being gone opens up a role we know works in the offense, provided exactly what we lacked in the passing game before last year, and the off season will be a more typical one with actual practices, not to mention a year already in the strength and conditioning program. Obviously Ruggs needs to take a step in his development, but that's most players going into their second year. When considering the entire situation and how unique to last years rookies some parts of it were, I'm not extremely worried about Ruggs. I am actually very excited to see what he does this year. I am more worried about Gruden shoving Brown into that role and using Ruggs almost exclusively as a decoy than I am worried about Ruggs skill set or ability to be a productive player. 

Ruggs may never become the dominant, 100 reception type elite #1 WR and that may always make the pick look like it could have been better, but if he becomes the player I think he can be, we won't care THAT much. Ruggs does have some traits and abilities that those other WR and the "mold" they fit into don't. Last year we saw how drastically having a legit big play burner could improve the offense, how much it could open up (look at the offense in 2019 compared to last year) and that was with the big play guys being banged up and not super consistent. If Ruggs can take a step forward? Watch out.