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6 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Don’t forget hr3 first wr picked with 3rd rounder production

How many players have we selected in the first 3 rounds since 2014 that you were surprised were still there.  I would say Moehrig, Melinfonwu, and maybe Mullen but he went where I thought he should have.  Everyone else could have been drafted after trading down and if someone else took them there were higher ranked players almost every time.  Maybe we should just draft DBs whose names start with M.  Scratch that.  DBs whose first name starts with T and last name starts with M since Obi was a bust.

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3 hours ago, Mr Raider said:

Agreed with you Oaktown. 

I'm not at all saying that I think he was used well last season, or that I believe he's the type of WR that is going to be a dominant threat in all areas that will give you 100 catches a year. That isn't his game. And he will need to prove at the NFL level he can go over the middle and make the tough catches and all of that. He did show some flashes there as a rookie but we really didn't even use him in a way that lent itself to showing his skills there. We basically sent him on go routes, fake jet sweeps, and basically that was it. 

I don't really take issue or think it was a bad look, at least when talking about Ruggs himself and not the coaching staff, to have NA out produce him last season. Like I mentioned WR is a spot that used to be notorious for rookies not producing great as rookies, Gruden has a lengthy history of relying on veterans and bringing young guys on very slowly (much slower than almost any other coach), and I don't think it can be overstated when talking about a rookie wideouts first season playing under a coach notorious for not putting a lot on a rookies plate, it was a covid shortened year. No training camp, no preseason, significantly less time actually on the field together. That is a situation any rookie could struggle to show all their skills. But you pair that rookie with a QB that almost all fans acknowledge how much he locks onto the guys he is most comfortable with, a run first offense with an elite TE, a coach that even in normal off seasons brings rookies along slowly, and not even being able to gain chemistry or be brought along the way every other player in NFL history has experienced their first year? Yeah that's a situation designed for the 5+ year NFL veteran (that was a former first round pick himself) to out produce the raw rookie. 

Honestly Agholor's success and career saving type of season with us last year actually makes me significantly more confident in Ruggs. I would argue Ruggs has better athletic tools as he's bigger and faster than Nelson who is no slouch in the speed department, is better at the more nuanced parts of his game (though like Agholor he isn't the most natural there), has significantly better hands, and showed more big play ability than Nelson did in his first season. Nelson last year showed me that Ruggs should be able to provide THAT type of season/production for us in a Gruden run offense, ran by DC. I think Ruggs has a ceiling of a Desean Jackson type, and while I think Lamb has a Hopkins type ceiling and thus would have been my selection, if Ruggs can be that he will be worth the selection. And I think Ruggs safe, middle ground between his ceiling and floor is a guy that produces like Nelson did for us for a handful of years. Nelson having a career resurgence leads me to believe that in a normal off season with camp and practices for Ruggs to take Nelson's spot last from last season to gain familiarity and chemistry with DC, Gruden can deploy Ruggs in virtually the same role and get that same type of production. And honestly I think it's reasonable to think Ruggs can be even a little better because of his better tools and because Nelson didn't get much run for the first several weeks. Not to mention Ruggs was dealing with injuries for a good chunk of the year on top of the totally unique covid year and a coach that keeps rookies in the doghouse and a QB that needs to gain chemistry with guys over time before really looking their way unless they are wide open. 

Nelson last year was an encouraging sign to me for Ruggs ability here because it shows Gruden can use that type of skill set and get explosive plays to open things up for Jacobs and Waller. Ruggs to me does need to show he's taken a step this year. He needs to prove he can stay healthy, he needs to prove he can do more than run go routes (which really means Gruden needs to let him do the things NA did last year inside the offense), he needs to gain chemistry with Carr. Simply he needs to develop. But Nelson now being gone opens up a role we know works in the offense, provided exactly what we lacked in the passing game before last year, and the off season will be a more typical one with actual practices, not to mention a year already in the strength and conditioning program. Obviously Ruggs needs to take a step in his development, but that's most players going into their second year. When considering the entire situation and how unique to last years rookies some parts of it were, I'm not extremely worried about Ruggs. I am actually very excited to see what he does this year. I am more worried about Gruden shoving Brown into that role and using Ruggs almost exclusively as a decoy than I am worried about Ruggs skill set or ability to be a productive player. 

Ruggs may never become the dominant, 100 reception type elite #1 WR and that may always make the pick look like it could have been better, but if he becomes the player I think he can be, we won't care THAT much. Ruggs does have some traits and abilities that those other WR and the "mold" they fit into don't. Last year we saw how drastically having a legit big play burner could improve the offense, how much it could open up (look at the offense in 2019 compared to last year) and that was with the big play guys being banged up and not super consistent. If Ruggs can take a step forward? Watch out. 

Great post. I think Edwards can fill the possession void over time and Renfrow is gonna be a 10 year NFL player as a slot guy. I am very high on our WR group.

I think if Ruggs can learn the nuances of route running from guys the way Sanders/Diggs/Adams/Allen did (much easier said than done), he can really skyrocket. 

It hasn't been talked about at length, but I do think that knee injury affected his ability to cut last year. He ran some nice "inside-outside" routes (not sure what they're called but Amari did it a lot for us) against Carolina that I didn't see much for the rest of the year.

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18 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

You have some points but he definitely didn't have 3rd round production in college. And Gruden horrendously misused him last year. I like to give WR's a little time this year. If he doesn't make a big leap this year though, I'll be disappointed. I think he will.

But he never cracked 50 catches or 800 yards in a season I think he’ll produce similar stats in the nfl. Again I hope I’m wrong 

 

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26 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

But he never cracked 50 catches or 800 yards in a season I think he’ll produce similar stats in the nfl. Again I hope I’m wrong 

 

Josh Jacobs rushed for like 600 yards at Alabama, lol.

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48 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

But he never cracked 50 catches or 800 yards in a season I think he’ll produce similar stats in the nfl. Again I hope I’m wrong 

 

Splitting time with a million talented receivers.

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3 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Josh Jacobs rushed for like 600 yards at Alabama, lol.

Him too his durability was a huge flag for me cause he never was asked to carry so many times. 

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2 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Splitting time with a million talented receivers.

In 2019 Jeudy and smith went over 1k yards what’s their excuse. fwiw I always thought hr3 was a one trick pony maybe 2 trick even at bama. 

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1 minute ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

In 2019 Jeudy and smith went over 1k yards what’s their excuse. fwiw I always thought hr3 was a one trick pony maybe 2 trick even at bama. 

He had one of the highest passer ratings targeted in the country and was arguably their biggest threat to score on a per touch basis in the SEC.

I wasn't even a HR3 advocate pre-draft, but his production was definitely not a red flag.

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1 minute ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

He had one of the highest passer ratings targeted in the country and was arguably their biggest threat to score on a per touch basis in the SEC.

I wasn't even a HR3 advocate pre-draft, but his production was definitely not a red flag.

Imo he was never really tested never really had a signature game where I could say ok he’s a legit stud. He had speed so of course he’s a threat to score if he can run away from people. But his routes were always suspect never sharp always rounded. Never really had to take some legit big boy hits. He only had one real signature contested catch and it was a td. He’s a gimmick wr to me #2 or #3 type but not a high volume #1. I’d almost sig bet hr3 won’t crack 1k yards this year but we don’t have sigs lol. Imo his ceiling is nelly last year. 

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2 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Imo he was never really tested never really had a signature game where I could say ok he’s a legit stud. He had speed so of course he’s a threat to score if he can run away from people. But his routes were always suspect never sharp always rounded. Never really had to take some legit big boy hits. He only had one real signature contested catch and it was a td. He’s a gimmick wr to me #2 or #3 type but not a high volume #1. I’d almost sig bet hr3 won’t crack 1k yards this year but we don’t have sigs lol. Imo his ceiling is nelly last year. 

I don't think he'll crack 1000 yards as long as Waller is around. But I do think he can be better than Nelly last year. He only had like 43 targets. 

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18 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

I don't think he'll crack 1000 yards as long as Waller is around. But I do think he can be better than Nelly last year. He only had like 43 targets. 

Agholor had just under 900 yards last year with 82 targets.  Per target Agholor and Ruggs are very similar and this is the reason why I was willing to pay Agholor.  At the same time this is also why I would not want to take Ruggs with our first pick in the draft.  We got the same player in FA for close to the league minimum.  A lot of people here think that Brown could duplicate what Agholor did and if that is true then why draft Ruggs.  You either let Ruggs try to become a #1 or you do not draft him that high.

 

20 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Him too his durability was a huge flag for me cause he never was asked to carry so many times. 

There were a few of us with this same concern and we have been pretty spot on with Jacobs slowing down or getting banged up towards the end of the year.  I like the signing of Drake just for the purpose of limiting Jacobs touches without a drop off in production.  In 2019 I was happy about the Crowell signing but when he went down I could not understand why they decided to not sign anyone else.  Booker was alright last year but Drake should be much better.

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1 hour ago, drfrey13 said:

Agholor had just under 900 yards last year with 82 targets.  Per target Agholor and Ruggs are very similar and this is the reason why I was willing to pay Agholor.  At the same time this is also why I would not want to take Ruggs with our first pick in the draft.  We got the same player in FA for close to the league minimum.  A lot of people here think that Brown could duplicate what Agholor did and if that is true then why draft Ruggs.  You either let Ruggs try to become a #1 or you do not draft him that high.

 

There were a few of us with this same concern and we have been pretty spot on with Jacobs slowing down or getting banged up towards the end of the year.  I like the signing of Drake just for the purpose of limiting Jacobs touches without a drop off in production.  In 2019 I was happy about the Crowell signing but when he went down I could not understand why they decided to not sign anyone else.  Booker was alright last year but Drake should be much better.

Let's see how he plays this year.

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1 hour ago, drfrey13 said:

Agholor had just under 900 yards last year with 82 targets.  Per target Agholor and Ruggs are very similar and this is the reason why I was willing to pay Agholor.  At the same time this is also why I would not want to take Ruggs with our first pick in the draft.  We got the same player in FA for close to the league minimum.  A lot of people here think that Brown could duplicate what Agholor did and if that is true then why draft Ruggs.  You either let Ruggs try to become a #1 or you do not draft him that high.

 

There were a few of us with this same concern and we have been pretty spot on with Jacobs slowing down or getting banged up towards the end of the year.  I like the signing of Drake just for the purpose of limiting Jacobs touches without a drop off in production.  In 2019 I was happy about the Crowell signing but when he went down I could not understand why they decided to not sign anyone else.  Booker was alright last year but Drake should be much better.

🎯🎯

why draft him so high if you know he’s not gonna ever be your #1 wr you can always find short fast guys later In the draft. You use those premium picks on sure fire battle tested studs. Same for rbs 🤦🏽‍♂️

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At least Ruggs flashed as a rookie, hopefully he put in work on his routes and getting bigger without losing speed. I wish we double dipped on wideouts with Jefferson/Shenault to compliment Ruggs with, but Edwards might end up being a steal. It's going be interesting to see how the WR unit shakes out. 

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On 6/19/2021 at 11:42 PM, NYRaider said:
On 6/19/2021 at 4:44 AM, MrOaktown_56 said:

This was probably our worst pick in Mayock's tenure, with Ferrell and Bowden close behind.

Abram and Arnette right up there as well

Looking at how Bradley uses his CBs and what kind of schemes he has played in the past and how that fits with Arnette, who's selling point is man coverage and press man and who is not very lengthy, is poor in zone, struggles playing off the receiver, struggles reading the QB and was over drafted even for the past scheme, unfortunately this could very easily be the worst pick of the Mayock tenure and a total bust. I could see us trading him before the season if he struggles with the new scheme in camp. I don't enjoy thinking that at all......

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