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Ben Simmons officially asks to be traded


NYRaider

Should they trade Ben Simmons  

40 members have voted

  1. 1. Trade him?

    • Yes
      36
    • No
      4


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1 minute ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Agreed.  And someone like Ben coming in and playing defense may inspire the others to.  He will at least hold them a little more accountable than they have been.  KAT has never had another star player that is a defensive stopper play with him.  He has the athletic ability to be a good defender, he just doesn't try.  I think ben could lift Minny more than people think.  I still don't think D Russ is a title contending PG/SG but he could turn into a Booker type player with Ben around. 

While I agree with most of this there is no way Ben Simmons holds anyone accountable for anything.

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10 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Agreed.  And someone like Ben coming in and playing defense may inspire the others to.  He will at least hold them a little more accountable than they have been.  KAT has never had another star player that is a defensive stopper play with him.  He has the athletic ability to be a good defender, he just doesn't try.  I think ben could lift Minny more than people think.  I still don't think D Russ is a title contending PG/SG but he could turn into a Booker type player with Ben around. 

He had Jimmy Butler, who surely held them 10x more accountable than a laid back personality like Ben ever would.
 

The issue w/ Ben is that he has barley improved since day 1 on the offensive end. Why is that and why should we expect him to start improving? 

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10 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

While I agree with most of this there is no way Ben Simmons holds anyone accountable for anything.

If he is playing defense, and trying on that end, others will follow suit.  I am sure if he is locking someone down and KAT plays lackluster effort on D, I guarantee he will say something.  

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3 minutes ago, RandyMossIsBoss said:

He had Jimmy Butler, who surely held them 10x more accountable than a laid back personality like Ben ever would.
 

The issue w/ Ben is that he has barley improved since day 1 on the offensive end. Why is that and why should we expect him to start improving? 

Who cares if Ben hasn't improved?  He is what he is offensively but shooting isnt the only part of the game.  he is an elite defender, a fringe elite playmaker, and a very good rebounder.  He does everything well except shooting.  Even with that he is a career 65% free throw shooter which is good enough if he can do it in the playoffs.  And maybe its a confidence thing more than a skill thing.  And thats where the right coach needs to get in his head.  Obviously blaming him for all of the teams woes (including Embiids 8 turnovers, Harris 15% shooting, and Seth's lack of defense) in the last few games isnt the right way to build confidence in a player. 

Butler was there for a short time and was not a team player.  The Butler that played in MN didn't care as seen by his career worst .9 DBPM while in Minny.  Butler pouted his way out of Minny and Philly.  He wasn't a team player or holding anyone accountable. 

Ben is good friends with those guys.  They will try harder for him and he will expect his friends to put forth similar effort.  

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1 minute ago, Sllim Pickens said:

If he is playing defense, and trying on that end, others will follow suit.  I am sure if he is locking someone down and KAT plays lackluster effort on D, I guarantee he will say something.  

He's pretty clearly not a leader, and there is no reason to think he will be. The Brook Lopez comparison is terrible too. Brook came into the league as a skilled low post scorer before the 3 point revolution. He adapted his skillset to avoid becoming obsolete. Ben has been in the NBA for 5 seasons and never attempted to address his largest weakness. The dude missed his entire rookie season with a foot injury which would've been the perfect time to work on your shooting. He didn't.

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2 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

He's pretty clearly not a leader, and there is no reason to think he will be. The Brook Lopez comparison is terrible too. Brook came into the league as a skilled low post scorer before the 3 point revolution. He adapted his skillset to avoid becoming obsolete. Ben has been in the NBA for 5 seasons and never attempted to address his largest weakness. The dude missed his entire rookie season with a foot injury which would've been the perfect time to work on your shooting. He didn't.

lol, Being out because of a foot injury is a good time to work on a jump shot?  Thats laughable. 

The comparison is that a bad shooter can become a good or at least serviceable shooter.  Brook attempted 6 3's his first 5 years.  then like 10 and 12 the next two years.  He didnt make one in a game until year 6.  Why didn't he work on his shot earlier?  Ben has been working on his shot.  And struggles to utilize it.  He did shoot 30% this year from 3, and just needs the right coaching and push to shoot more.  He also has an ability to get to the rim and shoot inside where he shoots at a 56% clip, so why stretch it much.  As I said, if he hits close to his career average from the FT line in the Atlanta series, they win easy.  He had the yips, he isnt the first player to get them.  He also wont be that for his career. 

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9 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

lol, Being out because of a foot injury is a good time to work on a jump shot?  Thats laughable. 

The comparison is that a bad shooter can become a good or at least serviceable shooter.  Brook attempted 6 3's his first 5 years.  then like 10 and 12 the next two years.  He didnt make one in a game until year 6.  Why didn't he work on his shot earlier?  Ben has been working on his shot.  And struggles to utilize it.  He did shoot 30% this year from 3, and just needs the right coaching and push to shoot more.  He also has an ability to get to the rim and shoot inside where he shoots at a 56% clip, so why stretch it much.  As I said, if he hits close to his career average from the FT line in the Atlanta series, they win easy.  He had the yips, he isnt the first player to get them.  He also wont be that for his career. 

It's a terrible comparison. One guy didn't work on it because he didn't have to. When it become key to keeping him around he immediately developed it. It's always been an issue for the other guy and it's never been improved. They aren't remotely similar, and you know it.

Your attempts to defend him are embarrassing. It's laughable that he could've worked on his jumper while his foot was injured? Sounds like you'd be a terrible coach who gets walked all over. If Amare Stoudemire could work on his midrange jumper while injured and make that a weapon what's stopping Ben? Oh yeah, effort. He shot 30% on ten attempts. First, that sucks, and second that small of a sample size is irrelevant. Sure, he got the yips. Doesn't change the fact that he has been a liability in every second round he's played in, and his biggest weakness is still a huge issue for him 5 years in.

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5 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

It's a terrible comparison. One guy didn't work on it because he didn't have to. When it become key to keeping him around he immediately developed it. It's always been an issue for the other guy and it's never been improved. They aren't remotely similar, and you know it.

Your attempts to defend him are embarrassing. It's laughable that he could've worked on his jumper while his foot was injured? Sounds like you'd be a terrible coach who gets walked all over. If Amare Stoudemire could work on his midrange jumper while injured and make that a weapon what's stopping Ben? Oh yeah, effort. He shot 30% on ten attempts. First, that sucks, and second that small of a sample size is irrelevant. Sure, he got the yips. Doesn't change the fact that he has been a liability in every second round he's played in, and his biggest weakness is still a huge issue for him 5 years in.

Oh so you know the evolution details of Brook Lopez.  Based on the numbers he was working on it for about 7 years.  It didn't happen overnight.  And if you don't think Ben is working on a shot, thats ridiculous.  Why did Shaq shoot 57% from the free throw line for his career?  Because its hard to shoot with his size and hand size.  You think he didn't work on it?  Is he just lazy and no effort to try and get better at FTs?  Why didn't Tim Duncan develop a 3 point shot while being a 68% FT shooter? Giannis is a 28% shooter, and similar FT shooter to Ben.  Is it smart to have Giannis taking 3s or driving to the hole where he shoots 60%?  They did the same thing to Giannis in the playoffs and made him beat them, eventually, in his 8th season he got over the hump after failing multiple times.  Why is Ben's career over at 24 when Giannis was three years away from being the player that led his team to the championship?  Find a way to best utilize him, sort of like Philly did all regular season as a playmaker and defender and then keep doing the same in the playoffs.  The only reason they needed him to score in the playoffs was because Harris was broke and Embiid kept turning the ball over.  If those guys played as well as they did to get the 1 seed, they would have won easily. 

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3 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Oh so you know the evolution details of Brook Lopez.  Based on the numbers he was working on it for about 7 years.  It didn't happen overnight.  And if you don't think Ben is working on a shot, thats ridiculous.  Why did Shaq shoot 57% from the free throw line for his career?  Because its hard to shoot with his size and hand size.  You think he didn't work on it?  Is he just lazy and no effort to try and get better at FTs?  Why didn't Tim Duncan develop a 3 point shot while being a 68% FT shooter? Giannis is a 28% shooter, and similar FT shooter to Ben.  Is it smart to have Giannis taking 3s or driving to the hole where he shoots 60%?  They did the same thing to Giannis in the playoffs and made him beat them, eventually, in his 8th season he got over the hump after failing multiple times.  Why is Ben's career over at 24 when Giannis was three years away from being the player that led his team to the championship?  Find a way to best utilize him, sort of like Philly did all regular season as a playmaker and defender and then keep doing the same in the playoffs.  The only reason they needed him to score in the playoffs was because Harris was broke and Embiid kept turning the ball over.  If those guys played as well as they did to get the 1 seed, they would have won easily. 

Sweet, Brook had a reason to improve it and he did. Check exactly when he started shooting 3's. Hint: it's when I said it was.

I mean Shaq is routinely and widely considered one of the laziest superstars ever so that's another bad example. Though I am familiar with Shaq's FT shooting. It was largely mental, though he was working with Rick Barry, who wanted him to change his form but he wouldn't because of how it looked. Again, not a glowing example. Optics mattered to him more than results. Which is eerily similar to Ben.

Duncan was a role player by the time the three point explosion occurred. He's irrelevant here. It's smart for Giannis to continue to develop his 3 pt shot to help create space to make driving easier. 

Ben's career isn't over. He's a really good overall player. He's arguably the best perimeter defender in the NBA. That said, his lack of improvement, and his biggest weakness keep him as solely a good floor raiser as well as a postseason liability. When you have the talent to be the best player in the NBA, one thing is holding you back, and you refuse to adapt over five seasons, you're a disappointment, and you should be criticized for it. 

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8 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

Sweet, Brook had a reason to improve it and he did. Check exactly when he started shooting 3's. Hint: it's when I said it was.

I mean Shaq is routinely and widely considered one of the laziest superstars ever so that's another bad example. Though I am familiar with Shaq's FT shooting. It was largely mental, though he was working with Rick Barry, who wanted him to change his form but he wouldn't because of how it looked. Again, not a glowing example. Optics mattered to him more than results. Which is eerily similar to Ben.

Duncan was a role player by the time the three point explosion occurred. He's irrelevant here. It's smart for Giannis to continue to develop his 3 pt shot to help create space to make driving easier. 

Ben's career isn't over. He's a really good overall player. He's arguably the best perimeter defender in the NBA. That said, his lack of improvement, and his biggest weakness keep him as solely a good floor raiser as well as a postseason liability. When you have the talent to be the best player in the NBA, one thing is holding you back, and you refuse to adapt over five seasons, you're a disappointment, and you should be criticized for it. 

The point is though, you are judging him by others finished standards.  He has gradually improved and is working on it.  It is improving each year.  Maybe not as fast as you want but there is progress.  Assuming because he struggles to shoot that its a lazy issue is ridiculous.  If you think he is just sitting at home playing video games is a side story you developed.  If everyone could just be a good shooter, everyone would.  Not everyone has it or we all would be in the NBA.  He hasn't improved his shot dramatically but has improved every other aspect of his game, which seems to be no value to you since he still is a poor shooter.  he is playing to his strengths, just like Duncan and Shaq did and what Giannis did/does.  Duncan played at the same time as KG and Dirk and Bosh and KD and other bigs that had better outside shots and could have been a shooter like them. But nope, he played to his strengths and his coaches developed those strengths and utilized them opposed to trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.  

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14 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

The point is though, you are judging him by others finished standards.  He has gradually improved and is working on it.  It is improving each year.  Maybe not as fast as you want but there is progress.  Assuming because he struggles to shoot that its a lazy issue is ridiculous.  If you think he is just sitting at home playing video games is a side story you developed.  If everyone could just be a good shooter, everyone would.  Not everyone has it or we all would be in the NBA.  He hasn't improved his shot dramatically but has improved every other aspect of his game, which seems to be no value to you since he still is a poor shooter.  he is playing to his strengths, just like Duncan and Shaq did and what Giannis did/does.  Duncan played at the same time as KG and Dirk and Bosh and KD and other bigs that had better outside shots and could have been a shooter like them. But nope, he played to his strengths and his coaches developed those strengths and utilized them opposed to trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.  

I'm judging him on him. In five years he has gone from non-existent shooter to non-existent shooter. That's a fact. You yourself said "Who cares if Ben hasn't improved" which is acknowledging that he hasn't. This massive hole in his game  is something that can, has, and will be taken advantage of in the postseason until it's corrected. There is no reason to believe it will be.

The amount of excuses you make for him is honestly pathetic. Giannis plays to his strengths but still shoots. Shaq played to his strengths and was a center. Ben is afraid to shoot. Those are not the same thing. The Dirk/KG nonsense is more irrelevant information to try and change the conversation and it's not going to work. Enough with the excuses. Hold him accountable for something. Let's lay this out for you plain and simple.

Do you think Ben Simmons is a postseason liability?

Do you think Ben Simmons is doing enough to overcome his biggest weakness?

Do you think Ben Simmons is a leader?

Do you think Ben Simmons deserves criticism for not developing any semblance of a jumper in five seasons?

Do you have reason to believe Ben Simmons will develop into a competent shooter? If so, why?

If your answers are anything other than yes, no, no, yes, no. Don't bother responding because it won't be worth my time to deal with that level of delusion.

8 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

There's a reason he was 2nd in DPOY voting last year, on the best team in the East. lol

Ben's leadership and holding up the team to his standard is why that happened? Yeah, right.

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24 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

I'm judging him on him. In five years he has gone from non-existent shooter to non-existent shooter. That's a fact. You yourself said "Who cares if Ben hasn't improved" which is acknowledging that he hasn't. This massive hole in his game  is something that can, has, and will be taken advantage of in the postseason until it's corrected. There is no reason to believe it will be.

The amount of excuses you make for him is honestly pathetic. Giannis plays to his strengths but still shoots. Shaq played to his strengths and was a center. Ben is afraid to shoot. Those are not the same thing. The Dirk/KG nonsense is more irrelevant information to try and change the conversation and it's not going to work. Let's lay this out for you plain and simple.

Do you think Ben Simmons is a postseason liability? Nope

Do you think Ben Simmons is doing enough to overcome his biggest weakness? I don't know

Do you think Ben Simmons is a leader? Probably 

Do you think Ben Simmons deserves criticism for not developing any semblance of a jumper in five seasons? Some, but so do other stars for not fixing their weaknesses. 

Do you have reason to believe Ben Simmons will develop into a competent shooter? If so, why? Nope, but still very valuable without it. 

If your answers are anything other than yes, no, no, yes, no. Don't bother responding because it won't be worth my time to deal with that level of delusion.

Ben's leadership and holding up the team to his standard is why that happened? Yeah, right.

He still can score though without being an outside shooter.  Who cares if he is a 3 pt shooter if thats not his game, just like it wasn't Duncan's.  Utilize him the best way you can, which is as a playmaker and driver.  Surround him with shooters and when the shooters suck, dont blame him because thats not his game. 

Harden isn't a defender, so you have to put defenders around him.  He hasnt improved his defense in all of his years so why does he get a pass? 

Dame is a great shooter but doesnt make those around him better.  He isnt a playmaker that makes his teammates better and he doesnt play defense.  Why is he a top 10 player with those known deficiencies in his game? 

Steph struggles on defense, and his team missed the playoffs without other stars playing well around him.  

Brad Beal scores 30 but gives up 40 a game on a team that barely sneaks into the playoffs if they get there. Why hasnt he fixed that aspect of his game and become a better distributor?

Zion can't shoot from outside.  Why hasn't he been developing the three ball? 

Trae Young can't play D and is partly why they lost.  He also is inefficient but he got hot for a couple series. 

Every player has deficiencies. Every player has known weaknesses that they work on yet don't always improve on over their careers.  That only means they are a liability in the postseason if you don't mask those weaknesses and utilize their strengths. 

Ben has been to the second round of the playoffs every year he has been healthy.  In the losses to the Hawks, Ben was the only player on the 76ers with a positive +/- in all four games.  He played great D on Young when he was guarding him causing him to shoot 23% from three when guarded by Ben.  In game 7 he had 8 rebounds and 13 assists.  In that game, Harris shot 33% from the floor on 24 shots, 23% from 3.  In the game 5 loss Harris shot 15% from the floor on 11 shots.  He is a liability in the playoffs it seems.  In game 4 Embiid shot 20% on 20 shots, had 8 turnovers in each of the last two games, and had a 77, 79, and 83 offensive rating scores in the last three losses compared to his season average of 114.  But nope, its all Bens fault. 

Every player has weaknesses.  Do I wish Ben was better shooting?  For sure because he would be the best player in the league if he shot 40% from three.  But he isnt and I am ok with him being who he is and making his strengths bigger strengths while also working on weaknesses.  I don't know his leadership style, I am not in the locker room.  I don't know his work ethic, but I have seen plenty of videos of him shooting in the offseason every year and putting in work.  What I do know is a leader doesnt throw a teammate under the bus after a tough loss when they didnt play great themselves.  A leader as a coach doesnt throw one player under the bus when his system is not utilizing said players strengths.  Doc and Embiid have proven lack of leadsership in those aspects so I would say Ben is more of a leader than them.  

You want yes and no answers, thats because your mind is made up and you dont want facts and support that negate your made up opinion. If you want to hold Ben to a standard you don't hold every other player in the NBA, then thats on you.  I see a player and although I want to see progress, I also look at what they are improving on and if that makes up for their weaknesses.  

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1 hour ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Agreed.  And someone like Ben coming in and playing defense may inspire the others to.  He will at least hold them a little more accountable than they have been.  KAT has never had another star player that is a defensive stopper play with him.  He has the athletic ability to be a good defender, he just doesn't try.  I think ben could lift Minny more than people think.  I still don't think D Russ is a title contending PG/SG but he could turn into a Booker type player with Ben around. 

There is absolutely nothing about his past or personality that makes me think that would happen.

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