Ben Simmons officially asks to be traded

[Mox]

@seminoles1 Your fellow defense of the obvious (Westbrook/Simmons are liabilities) keeps me sane.

[NYRaider]

Just now, Sllim Pickens said:

If you want a better version of Draymond Green, then Ben is your man.  

They're different players but peak Draymond Green was better than anything Ben Simmons has done. In his best season he averaged 14/9.5/7.5 on 49/38/70 splits while also being 1st team all defense. Two things that separate Draymond from Ben are that he's a tough, gritty player who will do whatever it takes to win and that he can occasionally hit a 3 so defenses have to respect it. 

[Sllim Pickens]

9 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Yeah I don't view Ben as a great leader that's going to get everyone else to lock in defensively. But I think his defensive versatility and impact would make them better on that end. And on offense they have shooters everywhere. 

I'm not saying he will come in and make them great defenders, I am saying that if I am playing with one of my best friends, I will try and keep up and not let him down.  If ben is hustling, working hard, I know I better work hard too.  And per reports, Ben has been vocal and getting after people.  So he at least will push them to put forth more effort on D.  A slight improvement with Ben, would make MN a very good team. 

[NYRaider]

2 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

@seminoles1 Your fellow defense of the obvious (Westbrook/Simmons are liabilities) keeps me sane.

Simmons is a good player, definitely will be a liability if he can't shoot 3's at all or hit FT's at a consistent clip. But that's why I think you see the teams that are interested in trading for him are ones looking to finally get over the hump and be a playoff team, not ones that want to chase a title. 

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I'm not saying he will come in and make them great defenders, I am saying that if I am playing with one of my best friends, I will try and keep up and not let him down.  If ben is hustling, working hard, I know I better work hard too.  And per reports, Ben has been vocal and getting after people.  So he at least will push them to put forth more effort on D.  A slight improvement with Ben, would make MN a very good team. 

I don't think Ben would inspire Minnesota's other players to be better defensively, I think his defensive versatility would mask some of their lack of defense. And on the other end I don't think Minnesota being able to spread the floor with good shooters would make Ben a better shooter but it was mask his inability to shoot. 

[NYRaider]

Quote

In conversations with teams in Las Vegas, I came away with the impression that the Timberwolves were the team that was most active in talks to try to make a Simmons deal happen.

 

[Sllim Pickens]

3 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

@seminoles1 Your fellow defense of the obvious (Westbrook/Simmons are liabilities) keeps me sane.

So Dame is a liability too right?  So is Brad Beal right?  So is Paul George right?  And Harden is too because he can't win even with guys like Chris Paul.  Great players that cant win, or havent yet.  Throw Ben on a team with two other real stars instead of one and a generic one with Harris and they win.  He is no more a liability than other stars who cant win and dont always show up in the playoffs. 

[Sllim Pickens]

3 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Simmons is a good player, definitely will be a liability if he can't shoot 3's at all or hit FT's at a consistent clip. But that's why I think you see the teams that are interested in trading for him are ones looking to finally get over the hump and be a playoff team, not ones that want to chase a title. 

His FT is a bigger issue than 3 point shooting.  He does enough damage without a 3 but he has to hit Fts at even just his 60% clip in the playoffs. 

[Mox]

1 minute ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Ben doesnt limit your ceiling any more than other players with weaknesses.  He has advanced in the playoffs and not won it all just like Harden, Dame, Paul, etc.  You think his shooting impacts ceilings but it doesn't.  His +/- is still positive in every loss to Atlanta.  Meaning when on the court, his defense outweighed his lack of offense.  

His shooting is a weakness, that can be masked.  Its not his game.  Why force it when its not his game.  He averages a triple double on 56% shooting, that is not a ceiling creator. 

Comparing to others liek Duncan isnt BS.  All players have their styles of play.  Bens is to average 16-18 a game, pass the ball, rebound and play elite defense.  With the right cats, that is super valuable and can win a championship.  

Again, you are holding Ben to a standard that no other star in the league seems to be having that same standard.  If you want ben to be Steph, continue to be disappointed.  If you want a better version of Draymond Green, then Ben is your man.  If you think scoring 30 a game is the only way to add value and remove a ceiling, go ask Brad Beal how thats working out. 

YES. HE. DOES. How do you not see this? Advancing out of the first round a few times next to a fellow top ten player, and at one point another is not success. Look if you can't see his refusal to shoot in 2021 as a massive liability you don't understand the game. It's that simple. Not being able to shoot is one thing. Refusing to shoot is an inarguable liability that cannot be completely masked.

You're only comparing Ben to traditional C's in an era when 3 point shooting wasn't prevalent. That should tell you all you need to know about how awful your comparisons have been. I'm holding Ben to a reasonable standard. Improve your game. He hasn't. You've admitted it. That's not holding him to a standard anyone else in the league isn't being held to. Players can have weaknesses. Players can not refuse to do something. They are different. Ben is the latter. It would be different if Ben shot two 3's a game at 30%. He's not. He's on his own planet in terms of unwillingness to shoot.

[Mox]

1 minute ago, Sllim Pickens said:

So Dame is a liability too right?  So is Brad Beal right?  So is Paul George right?  And Harden is too because he can't win even with guys like Chris Paul.  Great players that cant win, or havent yet.  Throw Ben on a team with two other real stars instead of one and a generic one with Harris and they win.  He is no more a liability than other stars who cant win and dont always show up in the playoffs. 

You don't understand the difference between weakness and liability. 

[seminoles1]

5 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

@seminoles1 Your fellow defense of the obvious (Westbrook/Simmons are liabilities) keeps me sane.

Right back at you, friendo.

[Sllim Pickens]

2 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

I don't think Ben would inspire Minnesota's other players to be better defensively, I think his defensive versatility would mask some of their lack of defense. And on the other end I don't think Minnesota being able to spread the floor with good shooters would make Ben a better shooter but it was mask his inability to shoot. 

From my view, the issues defensively with KAT and Russ is purely effort.  Adding effort will make them better defenders.  Not significantly, but enough to mask deficiencies. Same as the shooters around Ben mask his lack of shooting.  I would still gladly take a guy who can put up 13 assists and score 10 points playing great D over a Brad Beal type. 

[NYRaider]

4 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

His FT is a bigger issue than 3 point shooting.  He does enough damage without a 3 but he has to hit Fts at even just his 60% clip in the playoffs. 

How many teams have had any perimeter player that won't even attempt a 3 and have won?

[Sllim Pickens]

2 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

YES. HE. DOES. How do you not see this? Advancing out of the first round a few times next to a fellow top ten player, and at one point another is not success. Look if you can't see his refusal to shoot in 2021 as a massive liability you don't understand the game. It's that simple. Not being able to shoot is one thing. Refusing to shoot is an inarguable liability that cannot be completely masked.

You're only comparing Ben to traditional C's in an era when 3 point shooting wasn't prevalent. That should tell you all you need to know about how awful your comparisons have been. I'm holding Ben to a reasonable standard. Improve your game. He hasn't. You've admitted it. That's not holding him to a standard anyone else in the league isn't being held to. Players can have weaknesses. Players can not refuse to do something. They are different. Ben is the latter. It would be different if Ben shot two 3's a game at 30%. He's not. He's on his own planet in terms of unwillingness to shoot.

I compared Ben to Duncan, a PF in an era with Dirk and KG dominating.  I compared Ben to Zion, a PF in todays game.  The position and era don't matter.  Its the point that all players have weaknesses, and to be their best, play them to their strengths. You are trying to make Ben, a 7 ft player who happens to have handles and vision of a PG, into a prototypical wing player.  Thats not him.  Any other 7 footer with his passing ability and defense would be just fine in the post, but he is too good away from it to be stuck in the post.  There isn't a comparable player to Ben.  His skill set is not found in 7 footers.  So why try and force him into a 6'2" style of play?  Coach to his strengths. 

[Sllim Pickens]

Just now, NYRaider said:

How many teams have had any perimeter player that won't even attempt a 3 and have won?

Why does he have to be a perimeter player?  He is 7 ft tall.  Make him a 4 that handles the rock.  Put him out there with three wings and a big with range.  Thats called coaching to strengths.  He isnt a typical wing, so why try to play him as one?