Ben Simmons officially asks to be traded

[Sllim Pickens]

37 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

LaMelo Ball raised the Hornets win total by 10 games. If the Rockets added Simmons and Jalen is legit they're not going to be a bottom 5 team.

Ball didn't, adding Gordon Heyward, Ball and guys like Bridges and Washington taking steps forward led to them increasing their win total.  They also had other players that were productive and solid players like Graham and Rozier.  The Rockets have two players, three if Simmons comes in.  They still would not be very good unless of course a SG is lights out at both ends his first year which hasn't happened.  Even MJ's big rookie year they sucked. 

[Sllim Pickens]

58 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

I disagree about Cade, I think Green's plus athleticism/experience in the G-League will allow him to have a smoother transition into the league and he'll be better as a rookie. I also don't think Detroit has a better team around him, they're going to be the least athletic team in the league. Grant is good, Bey/Stewart flashed, and Hayes has potential but I'm not sure how well those pieces fit together, particularly Hayes/Cade. 

Cleveland's roster is a mess with 3 bigs, 2 small guards and zero depth. And Orlando has a bunch of young players but Fultz/Isaac are just projections at this point and are coming off of injuries. 

 

Detroit was 3 games away from being the 7th pick with that same roster less Cade.  They may be unathletic but they won games and played hard.  If we didn't sit Grant the final week of the season, we likely wouldn't have got Cade.  They look like trash on paper but adding Cade to that, who had better defensive metrics and plays more of a point guard position which allows more impact early, will allow him to have more of an impact than Green.  

Cleveland I can sort of agree with but injuries derailed their year and they started with Drummond playing C.  Allen was better, Mobely is an upgrade at the 4, and they play in the East which is easier than the West.  And they were already 5 games better than the Rockets.  Its close, but I wouldn't guarantee they don't have a better record than the Rockets.  

[NYRaider]

2 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Detroit was 3 games away from being the 7th pick with that same roster less Cade.  They may be unathletic but they won games and played hard.  If we didn't sit Grant the final week of the season, we likely wouldn't have got Cade.  They look like trash on paper but adding Cade to that, who had better defensive metrics and plays more of a point guard position which allows more impact early, will allow him to have more of an impact than Green.  

Cleveland I can sort of agree with but injuries derailed their year and they started with Drummond playing C.  Allen was better, Mobely is an upgrade at the 4, and they play in the East which is easier than the West.  And they were already 5 games better than the Rockets.  Its close, but I wouldn't guarantee they don't have a better record than the Rockets.  

Cade isn't a PG though and will likely have to play off ball so that Hayes can play. I think you're underestimating losing the majority of your veteran players. Blake Griffin, Derrick Rose, Mason Plumlee, Delon Wright, and Wayne Ellington all played for you for a period of time last season. And Plumlee/Ellington were both top 7 on the team in minutes played. Neither guy is super good but Plumlee was your best big and Wayne was your best shooter. 

The Pistons currently have the 4th youngest roster in the league and that number is dragged up by a couple of role players. I'm assuming your primary lineup will be: Hayes - Cade - Bey - Grant - Stewart. With an average age of 21.6 that has to be the youngest starting lineup in the league. 

Allen isn't a good defender and his lack of rim protection was one of the main reasons their small backcourt didn't work. I like their guards, Okoro, and Mobley but they just have such a weird roster after trading for Lauri. Mobley is a 5 and will be good in time but I don't expect him to have a super impactful rookie season.

[NYRaider]

3 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Ball didn't, adding Gordon Heyward, Ball and guys like Bridges and Washington taking steps forward led to them increasing their win total.  They also had other players that were productive and solid players like Graham and Rozier.  The Rockets have two players, three if Simmons comes in.  They still would not be very good unless of course a SG is lights out at both ends his first year which hasn't happened.  Even MJ's big rookie year they sucked. 

I guess only Donovan Mitchell carries the squad to the playoffs and beats the MVP in the first round as a rookie. 

If the Rockets acquire Simmons while keeping KPJ and House I think they'll be competitive. 

PG - Ben Simmons | DJ Augustin | Dante Exum 

SG - Jalen Green | Kevin Porter Jr

SF - Jae'Sean Tate | Josh Christopher 

PF - Danuel House | Daniel Theis 

C - Christian Wood | Alperen Sengun | Usman Gabaru 

You've been one of the biggest Ben Simmons truthers on the forum, you know that having him is instantly going to make the team a lot better. He's an All-NBA, All-Defense caliber player and they'd have a ton of flexibility with their rotations and defensive versatility. 

[NYRaider]

But anyways apparently Philly turned down a package of CJ McCollum, Robert Covington, and multiple 1st round picks. 

[seminoles1]

54 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

But anyways apparently Philly turned down a package of CJ McCollum, Robert Covington, and multiple 1st round picks. 

That's a bad whiff by Philadelphia if true.

[NYRaider]

9 minutes ago, seminoles1 said:

That's a bad whiff by Philadelphia if true.

Morey is doubting the power of Klutch Sports. They're going to get pennies on the dollar the longer they hold onto him. 

[Sllim Pickens]

2 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Cade isn't a PG though and will likely have to play off ball so that Hayes can play. I think you're underestimating losing the majority of your veteran players. Blake Griffin, Derrick Rose, Mason Plumlee, Delon Wright, and Wayne Ellington all played for you for a period of time last season. And Plumlee/Ellington were both top 7 on the team in minutes played. Neither guy is super good but Plumlee was your best big and Wayne was your best shooter. 

The Pistons currently have the 4th youngest roster in the league and that number is dragged up by a couple of role players. I'm assuming your primary lineup will be: Hayes - Cade - Bey - Grant - Stewart. With an average age of 21.6 that has to be the youngest starting lineup in the league. 

Allen isn't a good defender and his lack of rim protection was one of the main reasons their small backcourt didn't work. I like their guards, Okoro, and Mobley but they just have such a weird roster after trading for Lauri. Mobley is a 5 and will be good in time but I don't expect him to have a super impactful rookie season.

lol, Rose and Blake we lost early, and the team played better after they left and guys like Bey and Stewart got more minutes.  Plumlee was replaced by Olynyk which is at worst a lateral move.  Ellington is hot garbage and his minutes replaced by Diallo. The Pistons are young, but they started winning games when the young guys played.  They will be better adding Hayes and Cade but still wont be good.  The players that left this team were about 3% of the reason for success last year and the guys brought in will be much higher than that this year.  And Cade may not be a true PG, but will play the role IMO about 40/50% of the time.  Thats why he was drafted first overall ahead of better scorers like Green.  He has playmaking ability, so taking the ball out of his hands is stupid, especially for Hayes who hasn't shown the ability to score yet.  

The Cavs do have a weird roster, but its still better than last years team that won 5 more games than the Rockets.  They may have put together an interesting group but there is enough talent to win some games in the East.  

[Sllim Pickens]

2 hours ago, NYRaider said:

I guess only Donovan Mitchell carries the squad to the playoffs and beats the MVP in the first round as a rookie. 

If the Rockets acquire Simmons while keeping KPJ and House I think they'll be competitive. 

PG - Ben Simmons | DJ Augustin | Dante Exum 

SG - Jalen Green | Kevin Porter Jr

SF - Jae'Sean Tate | Josh Christopher 

PF - Danuel House | Daniel Theis 

C - Christian Wood | Alperen Sengun | Usman Gabaru 

You've been one of the biggest Ben Simmons truthers on the forum, you know that having him is instantly going to make the team a lot better. He's an All-NBA, All-Defense caliber player and they'd have a ton of flexibility with their rotations and defensive versatility. 

Mitchell came into a team that just missed the playoffs with multiple other good players around.  Also he wasn't a top pick and wasn't all that efficient his first year.  

 

I don't see how the Rockets can get Simmons without giving up KPJ.  He is the type of player Philly wants around Embiid and if they want to unload the Wall contract, he will be included.  Take him out of that rotation and you have a stud in Ben, a solid C in Wood and an unproven rookie who needs to develop physically a little to reach his potential.  Tate and House and the rest of the bench is laughable.  Those guys get zero minutes on a playoff team.  Ben makes that team better, but not significantly better than KPJ and Wall do.  They have to win 10 more games than last year to move out of the top 5, and Ben might come close to that, but thats a huge improvement.  They are/were that bad.  The Rockets will go as Green develops either way and Ben is likely a better fit with Green and Wood.  And I am guessing a good year from Green will be similar to what KPJ did last year, but his upside is significantly higher. 

[NYRaider]

4 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

lol, Rose and Blake we lost early, and the team played better after they left and guys like Bey and Stewart got more minutes.  Plumlee was replaced by Olynyk which is at worst a lateral move.  Ellington is hot garbage and his minutes replaced by Diallo. The Pistons are young, but they started winning games when the young guys played.  They will be better adding Hayes and Cade but still wont be good.  The players that left this team were about 3% of the reason for success last year and the guys brought in will be much higher than that this year.  And Cade may not be a true PG, but will play the role IMO about 40/50% of the time.  Thats why he was drafted first overall ahead of better scorers like Green.  He has playmaking ability, so taking the ball out of his hands is stupid, especially for Hayes who hasn't shown the ability to score yet.  

The Cavs do have a weird roster, but its still better than last years team that won 5 more games than the Rockets.  They may have put together an interesting group but there is enough talent to win some games in the East.  

Kelly doesn't defend the rim or finish like Plumlee does though, they're completely different players. Ellington was older but he was still a very efficient 3P shooter, Diallo is a career 29% 3P shooter. The young guys started winning post ASB against an extremely easy schedule. Cade hasn't shown that he can be an effective primary ball handler though and if you have him on the ball the majority of the time Hayes is essentially useless because he can't shoot. Cade averaged more turnovers than assists at Oklahoma State and had almost a 1/2 assist/to ratio in the summer league. Obviously the summer league should be taken with a grain of salt but some of the concerns about his game were on full display. 

Getting to the FT once in 83 minutes of burn and shooting 8/23 (34%) isn't a great sign and points to what I had been saying throughout the draft process. He's not a great athlete and therefore he's going to have some growing pains.

[NYRaider]

7 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Mitchell came into a team that just missed the playoffs with multiple other good players around.  Also he wasn't a top pick and wasn't all that efficient his first year.  

And I am guessing a good year from Green will be similar to what KPJ did last year, but his upside is significantly higher. 

We had made the playoffs the year before Mitchell arrived but lost Gordon Hayward in free agency and everyone expected us to be terrible. 

And I disagree I think Jalen is going to have a great rookie season. Donovan Mitchell averaged 20 ppg as a rookie and did it with better efficiency numbers across the board then what Luka Doncic put up. Dude is going to be in the 99th percentile in terms of athleticism from day 1 and is a walking bucket. 

[NYRaider]

!

@CWood21 @Leader @TheRealMcCoy

The only way this would be possible financially would be Russ, no?

 

[CWood21]

Just now, NYRaider said:

@CWood21 @Leader @TheRealMcCoy

The only way this would be possible financially would be Russ, no?

For the Lakers?  Yes.  The Lakers would have to deal one of Westbrook, LeBron, or AD for Simmons to be a Laker. And the Lakers are going to run with their Big 3 for at least a year.

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, CWood21 said:

For the Lakers?  Yes.  The Lakers would have to deal one of Westbrook, LeBron, or AD for Simmons to be a Laker. And the Lakers are going to run with their Big 3 for at least a year.

I totally misread that, I thought it was Lakers players flying to meet him, lol.

[DirtyDez]

1 hour ago, NYRaider said:

!

@CWood21 @Leader @TheRealMcCoy

The only way this would be possible financially would be Russ, no?

 

I respect this more than Aaron Rodgers passive aggressive trade request.