Raiders DE Carl Nassib announces he's gay

[Matts4313]

5 minutes ago, pwny said:

LMAO. the most likes that any on of the three people arguing on your side has gotten is 4. Meanwhile, @Jakuvious's post telling people to stop currently sits at 24. 

Sounds like you should take your own advice. 

You completely missed the point. For example - you liking Domes false argument and attempt at bullying is a clear example of you supporting antagonistic and vitriolic conversation. It wasnt about "who has the most likes" it was more of "who is supporting poor communication and (implied) insults". 

[Deadpulse]

1 hour ago, Matts4313 said:

Odd that you chose Texas as opposed to podunk Alabama. I take offense to that good sir. 

not gonna lie, whenever I think of HS football my first thought is Billie Bob in Odessa 

[Jakuvious]

2 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

Im not going to go quote a bunch of people and cause drama. Suffice it to say that those names have been thrown out or implied several times towards many people. "Saying 'I dont care' is dismissive" followed by a post a few minutes later "People who are dismissive should shut up" followed  by a post "People only say "i dont care" because they are homophobes", "you cant say 'I dont care with out being a prick'", "hurr durr, matts doesnt care!" (even though I never said that) etc. It was a chain of people that ultimately led to nonsense and vitriol. 

People telling me? I am almost certain you havent actually read the thread. I conceded that point a long time ago. I have no clue why you keep trying to box me into a corner that I am fighting that point. I am not nor have I argued against more accepting phraseology. Could you please stop insinuating that I have? 

I havent. The end. 

If you have never said "I don't care," why do you feel so attacked by what people are saying about those who say "I don't care"? I don't tend to take offense to people saying that everyone should stop saying things that I don't say.

You also should really stop using quotes incorrectly. It's again just more of you playing victim, acting like people have said things to you that they have not. You don't want to quote people and cause drama, but you do love to fake quote people.

[pwny]

2 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

You completely missed the point. For example - you liking Domes false argument and attempt at bullying is a clear example of you supporting antagonistic and vitriolic conversation. It wasnt about "who has the most likes" it was more of "who is supporting poor communication and (implied) insults". 

Okay, cool. Now let me know what you not making a single post defending the LGBT people in this thread asking people to stop until you were called out for not doing it says. 

[Matts4313]

2 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

If you have never said "I don't care," why do you feel so attacked by what people are saying about those who say "I don't care"? I don't tend to take offense to people saying that everyone should stop saying things that I don't say.

Because people keep stating that I have said "I dont care". Let me show you a direct quote from someone else:

Matts: “Hey man, how you been!”

Friend: “Great! Big year for me. Came out to my family as gay, they’ve met my partner, it took a ton of courage but I’m finally being me.”

Matt: “I don’t care.”

Friend: “Oh. I mean yeah it was really hard for a lot of years. Living behind a mask, tiptoeing around your own family and friends, th—“

Matts: “Oh yeah totally good for you. I just mean it’s like choosing between tacos or burgers for dinner.”

Friend: “ ….. “

Matts: “Or like choosing a different magazine. You know? Sure you do, you lived it. But I get it to, I’m an ally. I don’t care. I. DONT. CARE.”

…..

Matts: *nailed it*

Its pretty clear I was being attacked. 

2 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

You also should really stop using quotes incorrectly. It's again just more of you playing victim, acting like people have said things to you that they have not. You don't want to quote people and cause drama, but you do love to fake quote people.

Its all there if you want to read it, friend. If you chose not to read it, then you really dont have a leg to stand on. 

[Matts4313]

6 minutes ago, pwny said:

Okay, cool. Now let me know what you not making a single post defending the LGBT people in this thread asking people to stop until you were called out for not doing it says. 

Thats simply not true. Starting yesterday morning in regards to Ramblin mans post I thought was terrible:

On 6/22/2021 at 10:45 AM, Matts4313 said:

This is very well disproven as mixed marriages continue to increase over time. I would 100% date someone of any ethnical background. I think "sticking to your tribe" is an antiquated and boring approach to life.

Lol. This is the exact opposite that will happen. I assume the media and the "SJW" crowd that controls internet messaging to overwhelmingly support him. Sure, Nassib might walk away. But thats because he is older and not good, not because he is gay.

Your reality isnt a place that most of us live.

Later on I spoke with Dome and reaffirmed that marginalized groups needed to be supported and that some of this phraseology was pretty terrible. 

A stance I repeated over and over. Are you willing to admit you were wrong in your accusation just now? 

[pwny]

1 minute ago, Matts4313 said:

Because people keep stating that I have said "I dont care". Let me show you a direct quote from someone else:

Matts: “Hey man, how you been!”

Friend: “Great! Big year for me. Came out to my family as gay, they’ve met my partner, it took a ton of courage but I’m finally being me.”

Matt: “I don’t care.”

Friend: “Oh. I mean yeah it was really hard for a lot of years. Living behind a mask, tiptoeing around your own family and friends, th—“

Matts: “Oh yeah totally good for you. I just mean it’s like choosing between tacos or burgers for dinner.”

Friend: “ ….. “

Matts: “Or like choosing a different magazine. You know? Sure you do, you lived it. But I get it to, I’m an ally. I don’t care. I. DONT. CARE.”

…..

Matts: *nailed it*

Its pretty clear I was being attacked. 

Its all there if you want to read it, friend. If you chose not to read it, then you really dont have a leg to stand on. 

This is the post you’re taking offense to? A post where someone was making an obvious joke about your ridiculous comparison? And you had the gall to say that society is too sensitive?

[Matts4313]

On 6/22/2021 at 9:52 AM, Matts4313 said:

Thats terrible phraseology and detrimental to progress. Hopefully you explained that to him and let him know that we are all one kind - human. And that the accepted terminology is the LBGTQ Community. 

Whoops, @pwny, I said it before that other post. Not after.

[pwny]

1 hour ago, Matts4313 said:

Thats simply not true. Starting yesterday morning in regards to Ramblin mans post I thought was terrible:

Later on I spoke with Dome and reaffirmed that marginalized groups needed to be supported and that some of this phraseology was pretty terrible. 

A stance I repeated over and over. Are you willing to admit you were wrong in your accusation just now? 

You want to try quoting something you said to someone that’s relevant to the discussion we’re having; wherein LGBT+ people are asking supposed allies to stop using language, and not a completely different topic wherein bigoted language is being used?

 

and it is absolutely hilarious that you think a post where you talk about the **“SJW" crowd that controls internet messaging to overwhelmingly support him** is allyship. Absolutely brilliant. 

[Matts4313]

3 minutes ago, pwny said:

This is the post you’re taking offense to? A post where someone was making an obvious joke about your ridiculous comparison? And you had the gall to say that society is too sensitive?

It was one example pwny. 1 of many. And again - please understand I am speaking in general terms - not about me specifically. I am attempting to keep the thread about the content and not the posters. Which is why I am not quoting the other 40 nasty comments, implied or otherwise, that have been said about a myriad of posters. 

[Deadpulse]

21 minutes ago, FrantikRam said:

 

So first, super happy for him and I think the representation part is huge. Big win for all the kids that this will inspire and hopefully make more comfortable.

But this mindset overall is a huge problem with society. Huge.

What we've basically done is group people together by race, gender or sexuality and apply sweeping assumptions to them if they fall into that group. The very act of doing this divides the world - whether it should or not (it shouldn't) is irrelevant - by now we all know that it does.

But something you touched on makes all the sense in the world - that we need to have empathy for individuals. Having empathy for an entire group does absolutely nothing for the world when you include members of that group who shouldn't be there and exclude someone who should, because everyone experiences the world differently and that is more than just their race, gender or sexuality.

Debating just to debate on the internet is fine - but what would truly make society better would be if each person focused on their sphere of influence. Have empathy for the people who you interact with daily. Coming into a talk forum and asking people to learn about artificial lines in the sand that we've drawn is going to have the opposite effect of what you're going for.

 

And if you want to get real - race, gender, and sexuality are small potatoes compared to the actual biggest issue in our country: parenting. There is no greater disadvantage than having bad parents or having something awful done to you as a child. Want to go google something? Check out the psychological impact that divorce has on a child. Then ask yourself how we can welcome divorce and think nothing of it when it's that damaging? While we waste our time trying to change people's minds and arguing over semantics - children are being abused. And if we're going to focus on stamping out all the hate, have to go to the root of it, which is parenting. 

Getting to know a person and having empathy for them will do a lot more than applying the sweeping assumptions that their life has been more of a challenge because of ____________.

Im sorry. I have tried so hard to be super positive in this thread and be understanding of other's takes but man this one is wild. Having empathy for groups does nothing for the world? HOW? We shouldnt have empathy for holocaust survivors because they are a group and we shouldnt make a sweeping assumption that they had it hard? 

Obviously thats an extreme example. Ultimately you are advocating for nuance. A gay man in Seattle, his life is going to be oodles easier than one in Alabama ( @Matts4313). That is a distinct possibility. However, societal change does not come from individual empathy. This isnt a one or the other situation in any aspect of marginalized groups of people. It is ALWAYS both empathy for the wider group and for the individual. People need to rationally understand that nuance also ALWAYS exists within a group of people and accept that. So I get you advocating for this, but to in turn dismiss marginalized groups as irrelevant and even damaging to society is dangerous and irresponsible. Gays were not allowed to marry as recently as 7 years ago. There is no individual empathy that could make that change. You, as someone who issues marriage licenses, could not see an individual couple and decide, you know, they deserve it, and then go against Federal law. Even if you could, you are leaving it up to ONE guy to make that decision? 

And then comparing bad parents to growing up black or gay or any other marginalized group in America as small potatoes in comparison? That is massively disrespectful to the struggles of anyone in those groups AND in the one whose strife you are championing. Its funny how you have a post dismissing marginalized groups of people as destructive and then MARGINALIZE GROUPS OF PEOPLE which you yourself claimed grouping them together as the real issue here. Like... are you serious? Back to the point of your last paragraph, no one should be comparing the struggles of one person or group over another's. No one's experience is the same and to make a sweeping statement like that is so disrespectful. You don't tell one group to sit down because this one had it worse, you lift them ALL up god damnit. You don't pick and choose which person has it worse, that is horrific. You have two people lay bleeding, do you help only one because he has a bullet wound and leave the other because his are stab wounds? No you do everything to help both. You also never know when you just look at the surface level of the issue. Bullet wound sounds worse but you get them treated and realize that the bullet was a through and through on the arm with no structural damage where as the stab wound nicked an artery and then suddenly the opposite is true... because... stay with me I am looping this all together here... NUANCE EXISTS. So you can talk about the individual all you want, and it is important, but dont come at me with that ish and then pretend it doesnt exist just to push a separate agenda, albeit also an important one. 

[BroncoSojia]

3 minutes ago, FrantikRam said:

 

So first, super happy for him and I think the representation part is huge. Big win for all the kids that this will inspire and hopefully make more comfortable.

But this mindset overall is a huge problem with society. Huge.

What we've basically done is group people together by race, gender or sexuality and apply sweeping assumptions to them if they fall into that group. The very act of doing this divides the world - whether it should or not (it shouldn't) is irrelevant - by now we all know that it does.

But something you touched on makes all the sense in the world - that we need to have empathy for individuals. Having empathy for an entire group does absolutely nothing for the world when you include members of that group who shouldn't be there and exclude someone who should, because everyone experiences the world differently and that is more than just their race, gender or sexuality.

 

This has been going on for a millennia plus. POC, women, LGBT, people with disabilities, etc have been historically discriminated against and marginalized based solely on the "group" they belong to. They've been told that they're less intelligent, not capable of the same type of work, deviants simply for being who they are. They've been killed, enslaved, beaten, denied housing and adequate medical treatment, among other things, just for belonging to a marginalized group. The effects of these current and historical practices and policies still have a profound impact on those communities today. 

This is why we can't focus on the "individual" at the expense of marginalized communities as a whole. There are and have been mass movements, organizations and activists groups based on the shared struggled of women, LGBT people, POC, and the disabled, often with a lot of overlap. Obviously, sometimes its overplayed, but identity matters. Let's not make it easy for opponents of progress to "individualize" people from these groups to downplay the effects of systemic bigotry. I.E. bringing up someone like Candance Owens or Dave Rubin and saying "see, they're successful and they're black/gay/female, why can't you do the same?" 

[Deadpulse]

13 minutes ago, BroncoSojia said:

Let's not make it easy for opponents of progress to "individualize" people from these groups to downplay the effects of systemic bigotry.

This is well said, wish I couldve phrased this out in my post lol

[FrantikRam]

10 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

Im sorry. I have tried so hard to be super positive in this thread and be understanding of other's takes but man this one is wild. Having empathy for groups does nothing for the world? HOW? We shouldnt have empathy for holocaust survivors because they are a group and we shouldnt make a sweeping assumption that they had it hard? 

Obviously thats an extreme example. Ultimately you are advocating for nuance. A gay man in Seattle, his life is going to be oodles easier than one in Alabama ( @Matts4313). That is a distinct possibility. However, societal change does not come from individual empathy. This isnt a one or the other situation in any aspect of marginalized groups of people. It is ALWAYS both empathy for the wider group and for the individual. People need to rationally understand that nuance also ALWAYS exists within a group of people and accept that. So I get you advocating for this, but to in turn dismiss marginalized groups as irrelevant and even damaging to society is dangerous and irresponsible. Gays were not allowed to marry as recently as 7 years ago. There is no individual empathy that could make that change. You, as someone who issues marriage licenses, could not see an individual couple and decide, you know, they deserve it, and then go against Federal law. Even if you could, you are leaving it up to ONE guy to make that decision? 

And then comparing bad parents to growing up black or gay or any other marginalized group in America as small potatoes in comparison? That is massively disrespectful to the struggles of anyone in those groups AND in the one whose strife you are championing. Its funny how you have a post dismissing marginalized groups of people as destructive and then MARGINALIZE GROUPS OF PEOPLE which you yourself claimed grouping them together as the real issue here. Like... are you serious? Back to the point of your last paragraph, no one should be comparing the struggles of one person or group over another's. No one's experience is the same and to make a sweeping statement like that is so disrespectful. You don't tell one group to sit down because this one had it worse, you lift them ALL up god damnit. You don't pick and choose which person has it worse, that is horrific. You have two people lay bleeding, do you help only one because he has a bullet wound and leave the other because his are stab wounds? No you do everything to help both. You also never know when you just look at the surface level of the issue. Bullet wound sounds worse but you get them treated and realize that the bullet was a through and through on the arm with no structural damage where as the stab wound nicked an artery and then suddenly the opposite is true... because... stay with me I am looping this all together here... NUANCE EXISTS. So you can talk about the individual all you want, and it is important, but dont come at me with that ish and then pretend it doesnt exist just to push a separate agenda, albeit also an important one. 

 

Sounds like we agree on some things. Definitely help both people. And I don't pick and choose who has it worse - if anything that's what grouping people together does. Like I said, it's about having empathy for everyone in your sphere of influence. And I'm not trying to say it doesn't exist - the human experience is tailer made to be stereotypical (i.e. someone named Jessica broke my heart and I'm never dating a Jessica again). I don't think there's value in continuing to remind marginalized groups that they're marginalized. On the individual level you wouldn't lower your expectations or hopes for a kid just because they were gay. You would have the same hopes and expectations as you did for your straight kid. It's just creating division. You might convince some people but you're going to alienate others. Makes more sense to me to just focus on the people close to you and make a positive impact in their lives - if everyone did that, there's every chance that alone overcomes the people who are hateful toward that individual.

But disagree on my main point: having bad parents is definitely more detrimental than growing up black or gay. That's an easy google search. Having a good support structure will make being gay much easier. Having a bad support structure and not being gay is likely going to cross over into the harder territory.

A kid being abused by his mom or dad has no choice but to go home and face that abuse. There's often nothing they can do.

Since that's something we probably won't agree on, might not be worth continuing a discussion.

[seminoles1]

Good for Nassib. Hopefully this inspires more people to come out and live their lives as their true selves. Living in fear of being who you are cannot be easy, so the less people who do that the better.

I hope this also continues to inspire people to donate to great causes.