Raiders DE Carl Nassib announces he's gay

[JonStark]

10 minutes ago, pwny said:

So whoever wants to learn and isn't just here to argue that they're right, I'm gonna need them to do some work on this. There's certain topics that we still can't discuss here and that's going to be prohibitive to having a discussion wherein we discuss the full nuance of this type of thing. But truly, a simple colorblind wrong search in google will land you on thousands of articles, and hundreds of pieces of psychology and sociology research that fully lay out why the "I don't see [insert really any of the topics we can't discuss on the forum]" are regressive and prohibitive to ending intolerances. If you actually want to learn, give the search a go. Don't go into it expecting that everything about it is wrong. Just go read and take it in for what it is. 

 

Really, the big thing here is just having empathy for your fellow man. Understand and reflect on the feelings they experience. And that starts with a simple acknowledgement that the differences that someone has changes the way they experience the world. And if you refuse to care about those differences, you're never going to really be able to empathize with the struggles they face on a daily or systemic level. And then the next step is understanding equity. People who have different experiences in the world need different things to truly be treated as equal. We have pride month not to shove the gay agenda in everyone's face, but because these people still get disgusted looks and still become the victims of hate crimes just for holding their partner's hand in the mall.

I have a disability; it's nothing life threatening or anything, but it affects everything about how I experience the world. A lot of you know what it is, as I've talked about my journey over the last year in learning more about it and how it impacts me at every level. And someone could sit here and say "I don't see your disability" and that's whatever, but whether you choose to acknowledge my disability or not, I still need medication, I still need accommodations in my work life, I still struggle daily with it. I still need empathy, and I still need equity whether you care to acknowledge that or not.

Empathy and equity; that's all we're asking.

But if someone is just here to rag about cancel culture and yell" so much for the tolerant ____," I'm sure this is going to either be ignored or some back with a retort how this is all wrong. But maybe someone who wants to learn can maybe understand that not caring isn't getting anywhere productive.

 

@43M if you're actually serious about understanding, I hope that helps.

I'm going to look into this, but I still think you are taking the "I don't see color/orientation/gender" thing and automatically turning it into "not acknowledging the struggles these groups face". They are not the same. 

In my every day life, how someone looks or what someone is interested in does not stick out to me. I base my opinions of people off of how they act, if they are decent, how they treat other people/animals/the planet, if they are logical, etc. That does not mean that I'm dismissive of the hardships they have had to face or still may face. I'm not pretending these things don't exist, I'm simply stating that they mean nothing to me when I look at another human being. 

Are there people who do dismiss it? Absolutely, but the ones that don't care about these things are not the enemy. They aren't uncomfortable, and if fact may be the most comfortable around this type of thing. I think only one person in here has said that Nassib's announcement could be a bad thing, and he's 100% wrong in that. 

[Matts4313]

1 minute ago, Dome said:

If you agree the folks who say "I don't care" are helping keep people oppressed and we'll be on the same page and all is good.

Cause you say it's a bigger issue, but it also seems like you've been supportive of the idea that people who just don't care about the issue are somehow more progressive.

Ive never said people shouldnt care about equal rights for all humans. They should. No matter where you live or how you were raised, you should treat others with kindness and respect. 

1 minute ago, Dome said:

You see how those ideas conflict? If you think it's a big issue that needs to be addressed and made public, you should probably not like when people don't care. 

It seems you are putting words into my mouth. I think progress is important as a society. I also think there are people who arent interested in other peoples dating lives. That is different than not caring about the rights of all individuals. So while I applaud Nassib for moving us towards the goal he stated in his video, I just think its a bit prejudice to assume anyone who "doesnt care" about someones sex life is a homophobic jerk who wants to oppress other people. I think there are people in the world who just dont give a damn what people do in the bedroom and whom they do it with. 

[MikeT14]

16 minutes ago, SteelKing728 said:

I don't follow soccer or Mexico lol

That’s fine. It was just recency examples.  I guess it was just to add to my point that I don’t think the US is any worse than other countries for the most part and, while by no means “there” yet, might be ahead of a lot of these others. 

[Dome]

4 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

You seem awfully angry today, might want to take a chill pill.

I am angry today. No need to take a chill pill either. I've got good reasons to be angry.

I've been arguing with a guy who referred to a gay man and the company he keeps as "his kind."

I also got told I was a waste of time for my efforts by another poster because I told him saying "I don't care" is actually oppression and not progress, check pwnys post if you need a more thorough explanation of why that is accurate.

Now I have someone playing devil's advocate using admittedly bad examples, rather than just arguing for the side they claim they're actually on. 

[Matts4313]

1 minute ago, JonStark said:

I'm going to look into this, but I still think you are taking the "I don't see color/orientation/gender" thing and automatically turning it into "not acknowledging the struggles these groups face". They are not the same.

^^^^^^ This is what I was trying to say ^^^^^

[pwny]

7 minutes ago, JonStark said:

I'm going to look into this, but I still think you are taking the "I don't see color/orientation/gender" thing and automatically turning it into "not acknowledging the struggles these groups face". They are not the same. 

In my every day life, how someone looks or what someone is interested in does not stick out to me. I base my opinions of people off of how they act, if they are decent, how they treat other people/animals/the planet, if they are logical, etc. That does not mean that I'm dismissive of the hardships they have had to face or still may face. I'm not pretending these things don't exist, I'm simply stating that they mean nothing to me when I look at another human being. 

Are there people who do dismiss it? Absolutely, but the ones that don't care about these things are not the enemy. They aren't uncomfortable, and if fact may be the most comfortable around this type of thing. I think only one person in here has said that Nassib's announcement could be a bad thing, and he's 100% wrong in that. 

If you're going to look into it with an open mind, the first thing you do before looking into it probably shouldn't be telling the person that told you to look into it that they're wrong and that your position is right.

[Dome]

2 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

It seems you are putting words into my mouth. I think progress is important as a society. I also think there are people who arent interested in other peoples dating lives. That is different than not caring about the rights of all individuals. So while I applaud Nassib for moving us towards the goal he stated in his video, I just think its a bit prejudice to assume anyone who "doesnt care" about someones sex life is a homophobic jerk who wants to oppress other people. I think there are people in the world who just dont give a damn what people do in the bedroom and whom they do it with. 

 

It has nothing to do with a disinterest in Nassib's dating life. I won't be following who he dates or keeping tabs on his relationship status. 

When people see the first active NFL player come out as gay and the support he's receiving and they chime in with "I don't care" they aren't saying "I don't care about who Nassib dates" they're saying "I don't care about this communities struggles enough to even pretend like I'm happy for Nassib."

You can disagree and say I'm putting words into people's mouth, but I'm pretty confident with all my reads in this one, to use mafia terminology 

[JonStark]

Just now, pwny said:

If you're going to look not it with an open mind, the first thing you do before looking into it probably shouldn't be telling the person that told you to look into it that they're wrong and that your position is right.

I look into everything with an open mind. I wasn't telling you that you were wrong, in fact I don't think you are. The people you are referring to absolutely exist, however I just that I feel like you are combining those people in with the group of people who see and treat everyone as equal while also realizing that society is not at that utopian place yet. 

[Matts4313]

4 minutes ago, Dome said:

I am angry today. No need to take a chill pill either. I've got good reasons to be angry.

I've been arguing with a guy who referred to a gay man and the company he keeps as "his kind."

Thats terrible phraseology and detrimental to progress. Hopefully you explained that to him and let him know that we are all one kind - human. And that the accepted terminology is the LBGTQ Community. 

Also, what does the "company he keeps" even mean? 

4 minutes ago, Dome said:

I also got told I was a waste of time for my efforts by another poster because I told him saying "I don't care" is actually oppression and not progress, check pwnys post if you need a more thorough explanation of why that is accurate.

What did he not care about? I am not reading the ~7 pages I missed. Did he not care about someones individual sexuality or did he not care for progress and human rights?

4 minutes ago, Dome said:

Now I have someone playing devil's advocate using admittedly bad examples, rather than just arguing for the side they claim they're actually on. 

You arent reading what I am writing with a clear head. You are trying to box me into a corner where its either 'this or that' with out trying to understand what I am saying. 

[kgarrett12486]

I couldn't imagine having to carry that secret for basically your entire football career dating back to high school. Nassib has got to feel like the weight of the world came off his shoulders today.

Great to see the NFL and players across the league supporting his announcement. 

He may end up with 10+ sacks this year now that he can just focus on football. 

[Dome]

6 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

Thats terrible phraseology and detrimental to progress. Hopefully you explained that to him and let him know that we are all one kind - human. And that the accepted terminology is the LBGTQ Community. 

Also, what does the "company he keeps" even mean? 

Sure sure, but you get why having to argue with someone like that would make someone angry?

"The company one keeps" the person someone decides to be in a romantic relationship with. It's a common phrase, here anyways. Usually used when scolding someone for fooling out with trashy riff-raff but not exclusively. Maybe it doesn't translate to texas slang, regardless, referring to that as their own "kind" tells me this guy has mental lines drawn on what is "normal" and what isn't normal.

should probably be warning worthy but we'll see how much webby wants to enforce the "no hate speech" rules. 

6 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

What did he not care about? I am not reading the ~7 pages I missed. Did he not care about someones individual sexuality or did he not care for progress and human rights?

There is a thread celebrating a guy coming out and what a win that is for the community.

All he wanted to do was talk about how he didn't care. 

You tell me what his intentions were. 

6 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

You arent reading what I am writing with a clear head. You are trying to box me into a corner where its either 'this or that' with out trying to understand what I am saying. 

I'm trying to understand where you stand. You playing devil's advocate and using admittedly dumb examples to prop up a side of the argument you claim you don't subscribe to. It is a bad look and it's purposefully obtuse. Nobody in the history of the world has looked good doing that.

[pwny]

29 minutes ago, JonStark said:

I look into everything with an open mind. I wasn't telling you that you were wrong, in fact I don't think you are. The people you are referring to absolutely exist, however I just that I feel like you are combining those people in with the group of people who see and treat everyone as equal while also realizing that society is not at that utopian place yet. 

I understand exactly what you’re saying. I fully understand that the position you’re aligning yourself as feels to you like you’re not causing harm. That’s the entire point of the the research I mentioned people towards. You think you’re not causing harm, you think this stance of color blind and gender blind and orientation blindness is helpful and not regressive. I’m flatly saying, if it wasn’t clear at first, that it is incorrect and not productive and you’re going to have to stop arguing about how you’re right and just go read if you want to understand it.

This isn’t about the bigots who pretend they don’t care so that they can say angry and mean things under the context of “well, I don’t actually care, so I’m not a bigot”. it’s entirely about how the “me not caring about his sexual identity is the truly progressive stance” is reductive and harmful because of the state of society. So I mean you can either read the articles I pointed towards, or you can keep telling me that it doesn’t apply to you because you aren’t intentionally coming from a harmful place. But I’d honestly much rather you stop arguing and instead just maybe go read some and have an open mind that maybe what you’re doing, regardless of your intent, is harmful.

[scar988]

2 hours ago, RamblinMan99 said:

Ok, let’s take Tony Dungy for example.  
 

He’s a respectable guy around the league.  
 

When Michael Sam was drafted by St. Louis, Tony Dungy said he would prefer not to have somebody like Michael Sam on his team because he wouldn’t “want to deal with it.”  
 

What he was trying to say is that this is not something that everybody is automatically going to be ok with.  
 

That had a lot to do with why Michael Sam didn’t play a regular season game in the NFL. 
 

It wouldn’t be all that surprising if Nassib were to leave the league after this upcoming season too.  

Michael Sam didn't last because he wasn't good at football. He was a bottom 1% athlete to ever come out of the draft and his technique wasn't good. The fact that he didn't play had everything to do with him not being talented and nothing to do with his sexual orientation.

Edited June 22, 2021 by scar988

[minutemancl]

2 minutes ago, kgarrett12486 said:

I couldn't imagine having to carry that secret for basically your entire football career dating back to high school. Nassib has got to feel like the weight of the world came off his shoulders today.

Great to see the NFL and players across the league supporting his announcement. 

He may end up with 10+ sacks this year now that he can just focus on football. 

This will be the first case study of its kind in professional football. Obviously, mental performance plays an enormous part on overall performance, and that includes mental health and being in the right headspace. Does publicly coming out affect on field performance? I hope it has a positive impact, for Carl's sake and for the sake of all closeted players who are wrestling with that aspect of themselves.

[MKnight82]

2 hours ago, RamblinMan99 said:

Ok, let’s take Tony Dungy for example.  
 

He’s a respectable guy around the league.  
 

When Michael Sam was drafted by St. Louis, Tony Dungy said he would prefer not to have somebody like Michael Sam on his team because he wouldn’t “want to deal with it.”  
 

What he was trying to say is that this is not something that everybody is automatically going to be ok with.  
 

That had a lot to do with why Michael Sam didn’t play a regular season game in the NFL. 
 

It wouldn’t be all that surprising if Nassib were to leave the league after this upcoming season too.  

The things you are posting are the same arguments racists said when the league integrated blacks players onto teams.  If you don't understand why what you are saying is bigoted than you need to seriously re-evaluate where your opinions have been formed from.