Raiders DE Carl Nassib announces he's gay

[Matts4313]

3 minutes ago, fretgod99 said:

And the thing you called out (young people taking issue with religion) isn’t isolated to just Christianity.

I know. Thats why I said religion and not just Christianity. 

3 minutes ago, fretgod99 said:

But people here only tend to focus on that because it’s the predominant religious perspective in this culture.

Agreed. I would interested in how many religious people can properly differentiate the ideology of not supporting homosexuality while simultaneously being able to support individual rights and the ability to 'love thy neighbor'. In other words, applying the expression: "Love the liar, not the lie" to sexual orientation. 

[1WngdAngel]

5 minutes ago, animaltested said:

Resorting to gatekeeping? Cool.

I do the bare minimum; vocal support, and civic support (voting on city/ state referendums). 

Not sure what that has to do with encouraging empathy.

How am I gatekeeping? Honest question because I'd like to know. And nowhere did I say I wasn't empathic to individuals, but I'm not going to waste time spreading fake platitudes online either.

[DontTazeMeBro]

Good for him and I really mean that. But it’s kinda messed up that Michael Sam wasn’t good enough so they just waited and added the word ‘Active’. It’s like a redo.

[NudeTayne]

14 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

Boom, just hit you with your first like. I will forever be your first. 

Bro, I already hit that. You didn't notice the residual axe body spray?

[iknowcool]

24 minutes ago, 1WngdAngel said:

I am literally saying that person "x" being gay, black, muslim, etc doesn't matter to me because it is not who they are. Who are you as an individual? Or you a good person? Being a member of a protected minority group doesn't factor into if someone is a good person or not. That is what I am saying when I say I don't care, but that's me and I don't pretend to be the voice of anyone else.

But nobody is saying being gay instantly makes you a good person.  That isn't the point anyone is making.  

At the end of the day, the reason you don't seem to care (based off what you said earlier) is because the issues don't affect you (and I'm not saying that in a bad way).  And it's unlikely anyone in this thread is going to make you care.  However, to me, it just seems like a weird thing to talk about in a thread like this.  If you posted about your family member passing away and someone replied, "I'm sorry for your loss, but I really don't care," would you find that appropriate?  It should be clear as day to anyone with a tiny bit of empathy why that is disrespectful.  Just because a social issue doesn't affect you or is something that you don't care about doesn't make it any less important.  

And it is important.  

Edited June 22, 2021 by iknowcool

[Mesa_Titan]

4 minutes ago, iknowcool said:

But nobody is saying being gay instantly makes you a good person.  That isn't the point anyone is making.  

At the end of the day, the reason you don't seem to care (based off what you said earlier) is because the issues don't affect you (and I'm not saying that in a bad way).  And it's unlikely anyone in this thread is going to make you care.  However, to me, it just seems like a weird thing to talk about in a thread like this.  If you posted about your family member passing away and someone replied, "I'm sorry for your loss, but I really don't care," would you find that appropriate?  It should be clear as day to anyone with a tiny bit of empathy why that is disrespectful.  Just because a social issue doesn't affect you or is something that you don't care about doesn't make it any less important.  

And it is important.  

Lol. That’s an absolutely horrific comparison 

Edited June 22, 2021 by Mesa_Titan

[pwny]

31 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

My "balancing point" was that 2020 was rough for a lot of people, but even harder on those in high risk categories.

If you don't see how "2020 was rough for a lot of people and made a lot worse" is completely irrelevant when 2019 data is on par with 2020 for the group discussed, I don't know what to tell you.

[animaltested]

3 minutes ago, 1WngdAngel said:

How am I gatekeeping? Honest question because I'd like to know. And nowhere did I say I wasn't empathic to individuals, but I'm not going to waste time spreading fake platitudes online either.

You prefaced your response by asking "what I personally have done for the gay community". As if my conduct/actions beyond my post somehow devalue my post or support. Then you are following up by implying posts here are fake platitudes and anyone doing so is wasting time. 

 

[ronjon1990]

9 hours ago, RamblinMan99 said:

What I’m about to say here should not be considered insensitive by any means and should be part of the discussion.  
 

What about the players on the team who are openly uncomfortable with having somebody like that on the team?  

I feel like they are now in a position in which they are forced to conform to that even though they know that they are deeply uncomfortable with a homosexual being on the team, and fear of being thrown out of the league if they dare speak their concerns to NFL ownership.  
 

This is not about whether or not it is right that he is gay or if he and his kind deserve employment rights, because those are entirely different discussions.  
 

But football is a contact sport and I’m  just thinking about the other players on the team and the other players in the league as a whole.  

I think that's why it's important that guys like Nassib speak out and normalize it within the league in order to break down stigmas. 

Just because an openly gay football player makes contact tackling you, it doesn't mean (nor should it even be a thought) that there is anything there other than him trying to tackle you for the purposes of playing football. 

Same can be said for guys not wanting a certain type of person on the team. Are there going to be bumps in the road? Absolutely. There always are and always will be. 

Without guys coming out, there's really no other way to break stigmas like that, which really have no place in football, team sports, etc. 

I imagine that once enough people see that it means virtually nothing that impacts them, the talk about it goes by the wayside. But you have to begin to talk in the first place. 

If an NFL player has a problem with another player's off-field private life, I agree, they should be able to engage in conversation without automatic reprisal. That said, I would hope that the owner/coach/GM simply tells them they're being paid very very well to play football and that's it. 

Black, White, Asian, Native American, Hispanic, Pacific Islander....these weren't all always included, until they were. Now, how many guys care?

My guess is some guys in the league are adverse to gun ownership, religious beliefs, opposing political views, alcohol use, drug use, marital infidelity, you name a category, someone somewhere can take issue. It's rare that we hear NFL players speak about other players' private lives, even when there's considerable controversy. 

I think that the prevailing message is that of the things that aren't criminal acts that NFL players engage in or have as part of their personal identity, homosexuality is one of the last standing taboo subjects that carried an idea of being ostracized needlessly. 

Want to make players who may be uncomfortable comfortable with it? I would wager that "Carl Nassib the first openly gay NFL player" doesn't bring it up once the initial hype calms down and it goes back to just being "Carl Nassib the defensive end" to everyone but the media. 

This is, for the most part, just the catalyst to spark those types of conversations in the first place. A guy like Carl Nassib is more likely than not to go out of his way to try and make sure teammates are comfortable with it. I would bet more than a handful of his teammates already knew anyway, with even more having a general impression. 

Edited June 22, 2021 by ronjon1990

[iknowcool]

Just now, Mesa_Titan said:

Lol. That’s an absolutely horrific analogy. 

Fair enough.  Then explain to me what purpose it serves to bring up how you don't care in a subject like this?  

I just don't get how one can't understand why that would be seen as disrespectful/insensitive/ignorant.  Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like a really silly thing to bring up as if it is some positive way to feel.  

[Turnobili]

2 hours ago, dll2000 said:

100% of comments are in favor of homosexually or some say they are indifferent.   That is not surprising in least.   

That isn't because 100% of people agree or are in favor of it.  It is because people who disagree have either left, been chased off or are afraid to not support it for fear of attack and repercussions from the tolerant crowd.   They are silenced by fear.    

Who really has the power?  Can you be openly Christian with Christian pride and still post on this site?  

Let me elaborate that there is not hate here.  It is opposite of hate.   If I supported people lost in sin, then I would truly hate them because it means I don't care.  

I want them to change and be saved.

the thing is, nobody mainstream (at least in government or mainstream politics), is ever forcing you to abandon the way YOU choose to live your life. if YOU believe that homosexuality is wrong, then YOU are free to not engage in it.

if a religious person has... urges... they are free to suppress THEIR OWN urges because THEY believe it is wrong to do so, based on their religion.

ultimately, the support that you're seeing is for everybody to live as they see fit and be comfortable in their own skin.

if you believe Nassib's lifestyle is wrong, then you are free to live differently. but so is he. thats the whole free society stuff, freedom of religion. if you're not pleased with that, that's a different story.

but imo, and in the eyes of the law, everybody should be able to practice their own, as long as its not victimizing others. so unless a gay man forced himself onto you, or something in that domain, then its not victimizing you for them to live their life.

even if you believe Nassib should change his way of life, thats not necessarily the same as saying he should be forced to. and nobody here is saying that you should change your way of life, that i'm aware of

Edited June 22, 2021 by Turnobili

[candyman93]

2 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

I think that's why it's important that guys like Nassib speak out and normalize it within the league in order to break down stigmas. 

Just because an openly gay football player makes contact tackling you, it doesn't mean (nor should it even be a thought) that there is anything there other than him trying to tackle you for the purposes of playing football. 

Same can be said for guys not wanting a certain type of person on the team. Are there going to be bumps in the road? Absolutely. There always are and always will be. 

Without guys coming out, there's really no other way to break stigmas like that, which really have no place in football, team sports, etc. 

I imagine that once enough people see that it means virtually nothing that impacts them, the talk about it goes by the wayside. But you have to begin to tall in the first place. 

If an NFL player has a problem with another player's off-field private life, I agree, they should be able to engage in conversation without automatic reprisal. That said, I would hope that the owner/coach/GM simply tells them they're being paid very very well to play football and that's it. 

Black, White, Asian, Native American, Hispanic, Pacific Islander....these weren't all always included, until they were. Now, how many guys care?

My guess is some guys in the league are adverse to gun ownership, religious beliefs, opposing political views, alcohol use, drug use, marital infidelity, you name a category, someone somewhere can take issue. It's rare that we hear NFL players speak about other players' private lives, even when there's considerable controversy. 

I think that the prevailing message is that of the things that aren't criminal acts that NFL players engage in or have as part of their personal identity, homosexuality is one of the last standing taboo subjects that carried an idea of being ostracized needlessly. 

Want to make players who may be uncomfortable comfortable with it? I would wager that "Carl Nassib the first openly gay NFL player" doesn't bring it up once the initial hype calms down and it goes back to just being "Carl Nassib the defensive end" to everyone but the media. 

This is, for the most part, just the catalyst to spark those types of conversations in the first place. A guy like Carl Nassib is more likely than not to go out of his way to try and make sure teammates are comfortable with it. I would bet more than a handful of his teammates already knew anyway, with even more having a general impression. 

This is a really fantastic post.

 

I guarantee there are guys in lockerooms who don’t drink, don’t do drugs, are not promiscuous, maybe socially awkward, anti-religious, extremely religious, but manage to get over it and make it work.

 

The first step is Nassib. If things don’t work out, okay. Just wait for the next guy to come out and keeping going from there.

[dtait93]

23 minutes ago, fretgod99 said:

Saying mean things in and of itself isn’t criminal in any regard.

Some people saying mean things about LGBTQIA people is also a part of life. But that’s not what is being discussed here. There is demonstrable evidence of actual legitimate persecution and quantifiable harmful negative treatment of LGBTQIA people, often (frequently) at the hands of religious people, resulting in a measurable impact of health and quality of life.

There are also examples of actual Christian persecution in places of the world (as well as members of other religious identities). But “I get called out for my opinion on a message board!” is not an example of that. It’s not even in the same stratosphere. Not having your religious perspective catered to any longer is not persecution. It’s not even negative.

I'm not disagreeing with any of this. I'm just pointing out that we live in a culture that deems it hate speech if something mean is said to LGBTQIA people, but it's just life if something mean is said to a christian. To me that says the tide is shifting.

[Matts4313]

3 minutes ago, pwny said:

If you don't see how "2020 was rough for a lot of people and made a lot worse" is completely irrelevant when 2019 data is on par with 2020 for the group discussed, I don't know what to tell you.

You and your sig go hand and hand. I said nothing wrong or factually incorrect, you can feel free to be mature and accept it or not. Additionally, attempted suicide is one stat. Committed or contemplated suicide are different stats. All of them matter.

PS: "most groups" =/= "all groups". But that is just me being pedantic. 

[Turnobili]

10 hours ago, RamblinMan99 said:

What I’m about to say here should not be considered insensitive by any means and should be part of the discussion.  
 

What about the players on the team who are openly uncomfortable with having somebody like that on the team?  

I feel like they are now in a position in which they are forced to conform to that even though they know that they are deeply uncomfortable with a homosexual being on the team, and fear of being thrown out of the league if they dare speak their concerns to NFL ownership.  
 

This is not about whether or not it is right that he is gay or if he and his kind deserve employment rights, because those are entirely different discussions.  
 

But football is a contact sport and I’m  just thinking about the other players on the team and the other players in the league as a whole.  

you could literally copy/paste this argument for desegregation