LETSGOBROWNIES Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Matts4313 said: I dont think I ever said "I dont care", just FYI. I was just defending those who did because I could see their intent. 1 minute ago, Adrenaline_Flux said: intent vs impact it's been recognized over and over that it's not your intent, but you need to understand the impact it has is different from your intent 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 43 minutes ago, Adrenaline_Flux said: I don't think this is correct in modern society. When it comes to race/sexual identity/gender identity/etc. even if you're saying you don't care as a positive or neutral thing in your mind, it's not. For several reasons. The first being like what pwn has been saying --- it gives cover to actual bigots out there to use the same verbiage and get away from it. The other thing is that while these groups are still being marginalized in society, saying "I don't care" is not supportive nor recognizing their plight. It's passive marginalization. Using language that is supportive and celebratory of people's identity is much better if you are truly happy and supportive of these people. Someone's race or sexual identity or gender identity isn't some label on a bottle; it's who they are as people. I understand the intent may not be harmful, but the impact is. Very well said. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSUeagles14 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 8 minutes ago, Adrenaline_Flux said: There's a difference between telling a friend "I don't care you're gay, because I love and support you regardless" and going into a thread about a stranger coming out as gay in a profession that has a history of toxic masculinity and saying "I don't care" There's also a fallacy in "my one gay friend said it's okay" But I haven’t said i don’t care about Nassib coming out as a whole. As @Matts4313has said, it’s ok to not care that your friend is gay while still caring about gay rights, the struggle gay people have gone through. And sure, it’s purely anecdotal to say that this one person or five or however many are ok with this language. But it’s not like we’re’t talking about my one black friend saying the n word is ok. As I’ve said, unless the entire lgbtq community in its entirety has agreed on universal language, there’s going to be a range of what people prefer and/or find acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenaline_Flux Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Matts4313 said: You are literally arguing both sides of what I am saying right now, lol. In post 1 you admit to the idea that you can "not care that an individual is gay because you love and support them" (what I have been saying about individuals) while in the second post you are stating the stigma against that same phrase. Its like a whirlwind of political correctness here. And its really dumb because it seems like we are all in agreement. I will give a real life example of how this has played out. A couple years ago I was car pooling my son and his friends from a party. His friends kept busting his chops because there were a lot of girls that kept flirting with him, but he didnt make a move. After dropping them off - I asked him what the deal was. "were they cute" "did you like any of them" etc. After prodding for a minute I said "Are you not attracted to chicks? You know you can tell me, I wouldnt give a damn if you are gay, I love you and am always in your corner". He finally admitted he was just super shy and has been pseudo-snap chat dating one of them, but it was a secret. Teens, everything is stupid and drama. That said - I used a similar phrase to "I dont care" when discussing sexuality and in no possible way did I marginalize anyone. But - long winded example aside - I do understand completely that saying "I am good with you no matter what" is better phraseology than "I dont give a damn"... although the intent of each message is the same the perception of the message can be misconstrued. I'm not arguing both sides of the coin. Even in that example, I don't think it's the best rhetoric to use but the context and additional words completely change the meaning. I still don't think it's a productive way of phrasing it at all. Why is it "political correctness" to call out passive marginalization? Just because a teen on an individual level could understand your intent and not feel harm from it, doesn't mean it isn't regressive rhetoric that is dangerous to normalize and use in social settings. Again, it's so weird that you're arguing this still but prefacing it each time with "I agree, but..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenaline_Flux Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: I dont think I ever said "I dont care", just FYI. I was just defending those who did because I could see their intent. and we're arguing that intent vs impact is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: because it seems like we are all in agreement. We're not. One side is arguing that if you say something that's perceived as harmful, that if you don't mean to be, you change your language to reflect that. And the other side is digging in their heels over the right to say whatever they want "because my heart is in the right place". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TENINCH Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 Just now, GSUeagles14 said: But I haven’t said i don’t care about Nassib coming out as a whole. As @Matts4313has said, it’s ok to not care that your friend is gay while still caring about gay rights, the struggle gay people have gone through. And sure, it’s purely anecdotal to say that this one person or five or however many are ok with this language. But it’s not like we’re’t talking about my one black friend saying the n word is ok. As I’ve said, unless the entire lgbtq community in its entirety has agreed on universal language, there’s going to be a range of what people prefer and/or find acceptable. My gay brother would laugh at us for discussing this for 38 pages. 😄 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSUeagles14 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 1 minute ago, pwny said: We're not. One side is arguing that if you say something that's perceived as harmful, that if you don't mean to be, you change your language to reflect that. And the other side is digging in their heels over the right to say whatever they want "because my heart is in the right place". Whose saying that? If it’s me, you’re putting words in my mouth. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, Adrenaline_Flux said: Again, it's so weird that you're arguing this still but prefacing it each time with "I agree, but..." Im not arguing it. Ive already conceded there are better ways to state it. Multiple times. What makes you think we are arguing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, pwny said: And the other side is digging in their heels over the right to say whatever they want "because my heart is in the right place". Who is arguing that? I dont see anyone arguing that. I see many people strawmanning that thought process on to people who are clearly *not* saying that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 1 minute ago, GSUeagles14 said: Whose saying that? If it’s me, you’re putting words in my mouth. Its the spin that pwny and some others are clearly not seeing. They are putting words into peoples mouths and then just assuming thats what others are saying. Its crazy to me. NOBODY is saying what some people are projecting here. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenaline_Flux Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: Im not arguing it. Ive already conceded there are better ways to state it. Multiple times. What makes you think we are arguing? probably the multiple replies with multiple paragraphs trying to justify the phrase because of the intent if you recognize and agree that the impact is harmful regardless of the intent, why do you keep replying with "long-winded" comments and anecdotes trying to show it's okay to use the language? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, TENINCH said: My gay brother would laugh at us for discussing this for 38 pages. 😄 Tell your gay brother that we are cool with his sexual orientation, we dont care as long as he is happy and treated with love and respect. 😁 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenaline_Flux Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Matts4313 said: Its the spin that pwny and some others are clearly not seeing. They are putting words into peoples mouths and then just assuming thats what others are saying. Its crazy to me. NOBODY is saying what some people are projecting here. we're really going in circles here concerning intent vs impact lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSUeagles14 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 14 minutes ago, scar988 said: @Matts4313@GSUeagles14Pretty much, we're just saying, instead of digging in, just be like, "That's cool" in the future instead of the reductive "I don't care." We get that y'all don't mean it that way in this thread. We're just trying to open your eyes to how it's being perceived by others. Because some people who say, "I don't care" really mean "I do care, keep the idea of being gay out of my face." I’ve said this though. I find that’s cool offensives I’m sure there’s at least one gay person somewhere that feels the same. What do we do about that? Why are we pretending like there’s a 100% consensus among the gay community on what words to use? If there is, please point me to it so I can use them. As I mentioned a few times though, that seems far fetched, people are different and have different preferences. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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