Raiders DE Carl Nassib announces he's gay

[Kael]

43 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

Maybe I am an optimist, but I foresee a lot more insults based around his mother than his orientation. 

That would be nice.

However I believe that it would really depend on the environment. And with 32 NFL teams, you are going to have 32 different environments.

[Matts4313]

7 minutes ago, Kael said:

That would be nice.

However I believe that it would really depend on the environment. And with 32 NFL teams, you are going to have 32 different environments.

True. No guessing what the philthy Eagles or WFT fans might do.

[pwny]

38 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said:

I had a long and unfortunate back and forth with @pwny before I realized he wasnt interested in a real discussion.

Whatever you need to tell yourself to distract from the fact that you have missed the point by an entire mile.

You're literally the only one in this thread arguing that it isn't better to use affirmations. Maybe ask yourself why you're the only one who doesn't get it.

[D82]

1 hour ago, GSUeagles14 said:

I get what youre saying, but heres how ill respond and I had a long and unfortunate back and forth with @pwny before I realized he wasnt interested in a real discussion. Like you said, context matters and certainly in the real world context would heavily weigh in on how I respond. But i have two friends, who may be in the minority but thats moot, that dont want any kind of special or different treatment. Being gay is just a normal thing in their eyes and dont want to be treated differently in any way. They dont want to be told theyre brave for saying their gay, or that "I'm here for you". Both of them welcome the "i dont care that youre gay". Im sure theres plenty others that feel the way they do. Are their feelings invalid, or do we just ignore what they prefer? Im sure theres a large group in the LGBTQ community that would laugh that this is such a discussion and just want to live their life. As Ive said from the beginning almost, I dont think theres one way of answering that would make everyone feel comfortable. And quite frankly, if its only based on "cover" for bigots and homphones then unfortunately i dont think youre giving those folks enough credit to where they wouldnt be able to change a couple words around, as simple as going from "i dont care that youre gay" to "im cool with you being gay" (which still seems way more offensive).

I imagine when they say that they prefer the "I don't care that you're gay", they mean they don't want to be treated differently and be judged based on their character, but also hope that you aren't doing other things that would harm or prevent them from being treated the same under the law or in society. 

I've cut out members of my family - because even after saying "they didn't care", and seemingly even accepting it and having me invite previous dates over during family events - I recently found out that they basically had an entire "anti-gay" conversation behind my back. That, on top of trying to further the careers of people who would see my rights taken away, essentially led to my ceasing all contact with them. 

[pwny]

5 hours ago, Matts4313 said:

As for me, I never (I dont think) said the phrase 'I dont care' and I will be more cognizant of my personal phraseology in the future.

I wanted to jump back here for a moment and ask you a question. We are over 5 hours removed from when you made this statement. Elsewhere, you have said you agree that affirmation language is decidedly a better response and that you understand why we should move towards this and away from language that is "technically correct" but can be viewed as regressive. You've said you've used the language in the past and that discussion here has helped you better understand the way we need to be better in communicating thoughts. Is that correct?

[Daniel]

24 minutes ago, D82 said:

I've cut out members of my family - because even after saying "they didn't care", and seemingly even accepting it and having me invite previous dates over during family events - I recently found out that they basically had an entire "anti-gay" conversation behind my back. That, on top of trying to further the careers of people who would see my rights taken away, essentially led to my ceasing all contact with them. 

Yeah, that makes it hard to act like everything’s fine at Thanksgiving.

[Matts4313]

19 minutes ago, pwny said:

I wanted to jump back here for a moment and ask you a question. We are over 5 hours removed from when you made this statement. Elsewhere, you have said you agree that affirmation language is decidedly a better response and that you understand why we should move towards this and away from language that is "technically correct" but can be viewed as regressive. You've said you've used the language in the past and that discussion here has helped you better understand the way we need to be better in communicating thoughts. Is that correct?

I think this post is not "exactly" what I said, nor "exactly" my thoughts, but its close enough that its whatever. The underlined I believe is completely made up by you, I think. If I did say it, I dont remember stating that.

Why? 

Edited June 23, 2021 by Matts4313

[pwny]

12 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

I think this post is not "exactly" what I said, nor "exactly" my thoughts, but its close enough that its whatever. The underlined I believe is completely made up by you, I think. If I did say it, I dont remember stating that.

Why? 

Sorry. My mistake on the underlined, I was referring to this post where you said you had used a similar phrase prior.

I would like a genuine answer of how you feel regarding it that's your feelings on the use of affirmations. Just a small answer that clarifies what your stance is regarding best practices. Not a defense of non-best practices or an argument that you think I'm misunderstanding the intent from where someone else is coming. Just like your view on best practices. 

[swoosh]

On 6/22/2021 at 3:10 PM, Glen said:

I’ve ignored all of you in the NSFL. All except swoosh.

[Deadpulse]

2 hours ago, pwny said:

There's previously been reports of scouts asking players if they're gay, and has apparently been viewed by the players as if the idea of whether or not they are may impact their draft stock.

This is super important to consider here. Not just draft stock, but imagine growing up in ultra conservative Texas loving the game of football and being gay. Is there anyway a HS football coach in his 50s or more doesnt cut the openly gay kid immediately? The pressure to hide an extremely important piece of you just to play a game from an early age has to be immense. That pressure only intensifies as you get older and scouts are looking at you. You gotta stay closeted now because coming out might put your scholarship at risk and you can't afford college otherwise. We are SO far away from normalizing this in football, and it CANT stop with the NFL. It starts here, because this is where the exposure is. However it needs to seep into college and HS because those kids are so damn vulnerable. 

[pwny]

9 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

This is super important to consider here. Not just draft stock, but imagine growing up in ultra conservative Texas loving the game of football and being gay. Is there anyway a HS football coach in his 50s or more doesnt cut the openly gay kid immediately? The pressure to hide an extremely important piece of you just to play a game from an early age has to be immense. That pressure only intensifies as you get older and scouts are looking at you. You gotta stay closeted now because coming out might put your scholarship at risk and you can't afford college otherwise. We are SO far away from normalizing this in football, and it CANT stop with the NFL. It starts here, because this is where the exposure is. However it needs to seep into college and HS because those kids are so damn vulnerable. 

Yeah, and it’s one thing if you’re this incredible undeniable talent like Arch Manning or Trevor Lawrence or whatever where if you don’t get into your top choice, you’re going to have a hundred other scholarship offers. But there’s so many kids just hanging onto a dream where they might only have 1-2 colleges who will give them a scholarship and anything could tip the scales against them. Living in a small town, holding onto the dream that you can get a college scholarship that you can’t otherwise pay for, and terrified that you can’t tell anyone who you are because if they find out, your scholarship could get pulled, you could get cut from the team, or you could see the wrath of soccer moms who don’t want their kids playing football with someone like you, all leading to the possibility that you never have a chance to go get a college degree. I can’t imagine how hard that reality is to navigate. 

[Dome]

On 6/22/2021 at 12:13 AM, Matts4313 said:

Thats an odd assumption. Not being interested in someones sexuality =/= dismissive or purposely wanting to ignore it. It could be just a true statement that can be taken at face value. Which is a much more progressive stance than the one you are labeling people. As Nassib himself said - he is excited about the day it is no longer news. For some people, that day has already come. Its not news and its no big deal to them individually. 

 

On 6/22/2021 at 1:29 AM, RamblinMan99 said:

What I’m about to say here should not be considered insensitive by any means and should be part of the discussion.  
 

What about the players on the team who are openly uncomfortable with having somebody like that on the team?  

I feel like they are now in a position in which they are forced to conform to that even though they know that they are deeply uncomfortable with a homosexual being on the team, and fear of being thrown out of the league if they dare speak their concerns to NFL ownership.  
 

This is not about whether or not it is right that he is gay or if he and his kind deserve employment rights, because those are entirely different discussions.  
 

But football is a contact sport and I’m  just thinking about the other players on the team and the other players in the league as a whole.  

 

On 6/22/2021 at 3:52 AM, 43M said:

No, its just ignorant to define people by their orientation like you and others apparently do.

I dont care about players being straight either.   Is that dismissive too, or are you only applying it to the group youre currently white knighting for?

Its hilarious how you dont even realize its attitudes like YOURS that continues to make players coming out such a big deal....because you ridicule people who DONT make a big deal of it.    

 

On 6/22/2021 at 5:24 AM, Mesa_Titan said:

Society is so weak that this is considered so brave. Literally who cares. 

 

On 6/22/2021 at 6:11 AM, Mesa_Titan said:

So are we going to give Nassib a bunch of undeserved awards this year? Or are we going to make up some new ones to give out? Can’t wait to see. 

 

On 6/22/2021 at 8:39 AM, dtait93 said:

All other non-football related discussion gets shut down around here so why are we making an exception for this?

 

On 6/22/2021 at 9:12 AM, dll2000 said:

100% of comments are in favor of homosexually or some say they are indifferent.   That is not surprising in least.   

That isn't because 100% of people agree or are in favor of it.  It is because people who disagree have either left, been chased off or are afraid to not support it for fear of attack and repercussions from the tolerant crowd.   They are silenced by fear.    

Who really has the power?  Can you be openly Christian with Christian pride and still post on this site?  

Let me elaborate that there is not hate here.  It is opposite of hate.   If I supported people lost in sin, then I would truly hate them because it means I don't care.  

I want them to change and be saved.

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 6/22/2021 at 9:16 AM, Johnny Nix said:

It’s possible to love someone and not support their lifestyle choices. 
 

I also hate how society has made sexuality  someone’s identity. 

 

8 hours ago, GSUeagles14 said:

If I were to think about it, If I were gay I’d be more offended by “I’m cool with that”.      Seems more like I’m giving permission for you to be gay honestly. Let’s pose a scenario…

 

billy is a great guy, does what he says, polite, friendly, etc etc. his friend for years, Tyler, is gay. They hang out regularly, do favors for each of other etc. billy tells Tyler he doesn’t care that he’s gay, they’re great friends and he would never treat him any differently because of sexual preference.

 

who really thinks Tyler takes offense because billy said he didn’t care that he was gay?
 

 

 

3 hours ago, GSUeagles14 said:

or, what @Matts4313is actually talking about instead of misrepresenting it

 

 

Friend: “Great! Big year for me. Came out to my family as gay, they’ve met my partner, it took a ton of courage but I’m finally being me.”

Matt: that’s cool, congrats man.

Friend: thanks. This isn’t going to change our relationship, is it.

Matts: of course not, I don’t care if you’re gay.

 

[Matts4313]

1 hour ago, pwny said:

Sorry. My mistake on the underlined, I was referring to this post where you said you had used a similar phrase prior.

I would like a genuine answer of how you feel regarding it that's your feelings on the use of affirmations. Just a small answer that clarifies what your stance is regarding best practices. Not a defense of non-best practices or an argument that you think I'm misunderstanding the intent from where someone else is coming. Just like your view on best practices. 

I dont think the "I dont care if you are gay, it will not affect my views on you" stance is inherently bad. I do think, especially when speaking to many people as in this context, that many others were correct in stating that it is not the best phraseology. There are other ways to convey the same the same support/intent with out the possibility of back lash or misinterpretation. 

In otherwords, using positive messages is the preferred route, especially when tone and context cant be conveyed properly. 

47 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

This is super important to consider here. Not just draft stock, but imagine growing up in ultra conservative Texas loving the game of football and being gay. Is there anyway a HS football coach in his 50s or more doesnt cut the openly gay kid immediately? The pressure to hide an extremely important piece of you just to play a game from an early age has to be immense. That pressure only intensifies as you get older and scouts are looking at you. You gotta stay closeted now because coming out might put your scholarship at risk and you can't afford college otherwise. We are SO far away from normalizing this in football, and it CANT stop with the NFL. It starts here, because this is where the exposure is. However it needs to seep into college and HS because those kids are so damn vulnerable. 

Odd that you chose Texas as opposed to podunk Alabama. I take offense to that good sir. 

[Matts4313]

27 minutes ago, Dome said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why did you quote me?

[pwny]

22 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

I dont think the "I dont care if you are gay, it will not affect my views on you" stance is inherently bad. I do think, especially when speaking to many people as in this context, that many others were correct in stating that it is not the best phraseology. There are other ways to convey the same the same support/intent with out the possibility of back lash or misinterpretation. 

In otherwords, using positive messages is the preferred route, especially when tone and context cant be conveyed properly. 

Good. I'm glad to see that. Looks like we fully agree. 

So a follow up question. Why is it that even after you have figured this out, the overwhelming majority of your posts have been defending those who still refuse to acknowledge the same thing? Why haven't you made a single post responding to the folks who haven't come to the same realization you have that you completely understand that they're not coming from a hurtful place, but that you agree that they should be using different language? If you agree with the actual LGBT+ members of this forum who have said we should move away from that language, why are you only focusing on defending the people who haven't come to the same realization that you have?

Wouldn't your efforts be better spent in helping others understand the point that we're making in the way that you think we've been unable to hit? If you think that we're being too angry or misrepresenting their stance and that's causing them to not get what we're saying, why not jump in and help close that gap from the same direction you've come from? GSU is still here saying that he doesn't think affirmations are better and that he will continue to use the language you think is not best practice until it offends someone and they ask him to stop, and then he will only change it for that person. Wouldn't your voice of fully understanding him and not misrepresenting his viewpoint do wonders for him to better understand why using affirmative language would be better? Who really needs you to be arguing alongside them? The LGBT+ members who are asking people to change the language they use because they find it harmful, a practice that — pedantic arguments aside — you agree with, or the non-LGBT+ members who are arguing for their continued use of language that you acknowledge is not best practice and can be viewed as harmful?