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Raiders DE Carl Nassib announces he's gay


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28 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

Why did you quote me?

 

19 minutes ago, pwny said:

Good. I'm glad to see that. Looks like we fully agree. 

So a follow up question. Why is it that even after you have figured this out, the overwhelming majority of your posts have been defending those who still refuse to acknowledge the same thing? Why haven't you made a single post responding to the folks who haven't come to the same realization you have that you completely understand that they're not coming from a hurtful place, but that you agree that they should be using different language? If you agree with the actual LGBT+ members of this forum who have said we should move away from that language, why are you only focusing on defending the people who haven't come to the same realization that you have?

Wouldn't your efforts be better spent in helping others understand the point that we're making in the way that you think we've been unable to hit? If you think that we're being too angry or misrepresenting their stance and that's causing them to not get what we're saying, why not jump in and help close that gap from the same direction you've come from? GSU is still here saying that he doesn't think affirmations are better and that he will continue to use the language you think is not best practice until it offends someone and they ask him to stop, and then he will only change it for that person. Wouldn't your voice of fully understanding him and not misrepresenting his viewpoint do wonders for him to better understand why using affirmative language would be better? Who really needs you to be arguing alongside them? The LGBT+ members who are asking people to change the language they use because they find it harmful, a practice that — pedantic arguments aside — you agree with, or the non-LGBT+ members who are arguing for their continued use of language that you acknowledge is not best practice and can be viewed as harmful?

 

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5 minutes ago, pwny said:

So a follow up question. Why is it that even after you have figured this out, the overwhelming majority of your posts have been defending those who still refuse to acknowledge the same thing? Why haven't you made a single post responding to the folks who haven't come to the same realization you have that you completely understand that they're not coming from a hurtful place, but that you agree that they should be using different language? If you agree with the actual LGBT+ members of this forum who have said we should move away from that language, why are you only focusing on defending the people who haven't come to the same realization that you have?

Because I feel like many people (not naming names) have been really harsh in some of your comments and the way you/they are coming across. You guys are being super rude, condescending and angry to people who share your same stance (generally). 

I also dont really agree that "they havent come to the same realization". I feel like most people have generally been supportive of the idea that context/relationship/tone/etc are all important when using certain phrases. 

In other words - some of the posters have agreed with the point you have presented, they are just being defensive because "you" (not just you, others as well) have come across as bullies. 

5 minutes ago, pwny said:

Wouldn't your efforts be better spent in helping others understand the point that we're making in the way that you think we've been unable to hit? If you think that we're being too angry or misrepresenting their stance and that's causing them to not get what we're saying, why not jump in and help close that gap from the same direction you've come from? GSU is still here saying that he doesn't think affirmations are better and that he will continue to use the language you think is not best practice until it offends someone and they ask him to stop, and then he will only change it for that person. Wouldn't your voice of fully understanding him and not misrepresenting his viewpoint do wonders for him to better understand why using affirmative language would be better? Who really needs you to be arguing alongside them? The LGBT+ members who are asking people to change the language they use because they find it harmful, a practice that — pedantic arguments aside — you agree with, or the non-LGBT+ members who are arguing for their continued use of language that you acknowledge is not best practice and can be viewed as harmful?

Sure. @GSUeagles14 => pwny has a valid point that when context/tone/relationship/lexicon are easily misinterpreted (such as a forum), it would be more simple and productive to use a phrase that leaves less for debate. In this scenario, obviously, "I dont care" is much more debatable than "your orientation wont effect how I view you as a person" or whatever less corny way you prefer. I do agree with you that in person, this entire 35 page debate is silly because your response will be catered to that person... but we are not in person so it is what it is. 

He (and others) were just being very rude in trying to state that. 

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15 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

In other words - some of the posters have agreed with the point you have presented, they are just being defensive because "you" (not just you, others as well) have come across as bullies. 

people spent literally dozens of pages absolutely coddling you and saying over and over again that they understood where you were coming from, that they believed your intentions were good, etc, etc. frankly i don't have the patience for that lmao, so i'll be a little bit rude right now because complaining about that kind of treatment is *hilarious.* whew lordy.

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11 minutes ago, -Hope- said:

dozens of pages absolutely coddling you and saying over and over again that they understood where you were coming from

Are you talking about me specifically? If so you are incorrect and need to reread what was actually wrote. 

I was told "I am wrong, as usual" when I said high risk suicidal youth needed to be supported. I was called a troll and a prick. I was told I regressive/oppressive/etc and needed to keep my mouth shut. All for something I, personally, never even said. It was all made up by other posters.

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2 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

Are you talking about me specifically? If so you are incorrect and need to reread what was actually wrote. 

I was told "I am wrong, as usual" when I said high risk suicidal youth needed to be supported. I was called a troll and a prick. I was told I regressive/oppressive/etc and needed to keep my mouth shut. All for something I, personally, never even said. It was all made up by other posters.

Dont you have a mafia game thats night you're supposed to be processing?

smh

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Good for him. Do what makes you happy. Love is love. I just remember him from hardknocks in Tampa saying! He could get a 30% return lol.. or something crazy… 

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14 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

Are you talking about me specifically? If so you are incorrect and need to reread what was actually wrote. 

I was told "I am wrong, as usual" when I said high risk suicidal youth needed to be supported. I was called a troll and a prick. I was told I regressive/oppressive/etc and needed to keep my mouth shut. All for something I, personally, never even said. It was all made up by other posters.

The only person who has used the word "prick" in any post in this thread aside from you, is me, and I said a person (not you, I suggested myself, actually) would be a prick if they said the thing you're also saying you didn't say. So if you didn't say it, no one called you a prick at all.

It's very easy to do a keyword search within a topic on the new forum, but if you'd like to see with no effort on your part, here:

https://forums.footballsfuture.com/search/?q=prick&quick=1&type=forums_topic&item=36793

You really hung on that one word from my post, for whatever reason. Could've been any other word you want, that was just the closest thing I could think of to what I was trying to say that didn't go against the language filter. But, the phrase I repeatedly said in that post was, "If I did X, I would be a prick." You reading that as you being attacked is a you problem. No one, literally no one, has ever called you one in this thread. And if you didn't actually say "I don't care," like you keep suggesting, no one has even suggested that you might possibly be one. You have at least three times now said you've been attacked and called things no one has called you. The victim complex here does not make you look better.

 

 

Now, you HAVE been called a troll in this topic. But that was by Webby, and he kind of has the authority to decide what constitutes trolling on his website. So yeah.

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24 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

I was told "I am wrong, as usual" when I said high risk suicidal youth needed to be supported.

You weren’t told you were wrong as usual because of that. It had absolutely nothing to do with that, at all. It had everything to do with the assertion that 2020 played any part in the numbers that hope cited.

And he’s absolutely right. At least 20 different times (and I already made a list of 17 of them 5 hours ago) I specifically said things affirming these people I’m arguing with and you all still complained that flux and I were being bullies.

Sorry, but it’s not mine nor flux’s responsibility nor any of the other members of the LGBT+ community that have chimed in pointing this message to coddle you when you repeatedly defend things we’re telling you to stop doing because it causes harm. But we did it anyway and you’re still here calling us bullies. You’re not being bullied, you’re being called out by the very people you are hurting and then getting mad when we don’t spend every message reaffirming every word you say. It’s honestly exhausting that I can say 20 damn times that I don’t think you’re a bigot, that I don’t think you’re intentionally causing harm, citing your intent as allyship, and you’re just gonna sit over there and complain I’m making up strawmen, mock our position, and every single message you make, you defend those who are actively arguing with the LGBT members over how they are asking to be treated.  Talk about “society” being “sensitive”.

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2 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

The only person who has used the word "prick" in any post in this thread aside from you, is me, and I said a person (not you, I suggested myself, actually) would be a prick if they said the thing you're also saying you didn't say. So if you didn't say it, no one called you a prick at all.

It's very easy to do a keyword search within a topic on the new forum, but if you'd like to see with no effort on your part, here:

https://forums.footballsfuture.com/search/?q=prick&quick=1&type=forums_topic&item=36793

You really hung on that one word from my post, for whatever reason. Could've been any other word you want, that was just the closest thing I could think of to what I was trying to say that didn't go against the language filter. But, the phrase I repeatedly said in that post was, "If I did X, I would be a prick." You reading that as you being attacked is a you problem. No one, literally no one, has ever called you one in this thread. And if you didn't actually say "I don't care," like you keep suggesting, no one has even suggested that you might possibly be one. You have at least three times now said you've been attacked and called things no one has called you. The victim complex here does not make you look better.

 

 

Now, you HAVE been called a troll in this topic. But that was by Webby, and he kind of has the authority to decide what constitutes trolling on his website. So yeah.

 

2 minutes ago, pwny said:

You weren’t told you were wrong as usual because of that. It had absolutely nothing to do with that, at all. It had everything to do with the assertion that 2020 played any part in the numbers that hope cited.

And he’s absolutely right. At least 20 different times (and I already made a list of 17 of them 5 hours ago) I specifically said things affirming these people I’m arguing with and you all still complained that flux and I were being bullies.

Sorry, but it’s not mine nor flux’s responsibility nor any of the other members of the LGBT+ community that have chimed in pointing this message to coddle you when you repeatedly defend things we’re telling you to stop doing because it causes harm. But we did it anyway and you’re still here calling us bullies. You’re not being bullied, you’re being called out by the very people you are hurting and then getting mad when we don’t spend every message reaffirming every word you say. It’s honestly exhausting that I can say 20 damn times that I don’t think you’re a bigot, that I don’t think you’re intentionally causing harm, citing your intent as allyship, and you’re just gonna sit over there and complain I’m making up strawmen, mock our position, and every single message you make, you defend those who are actively arguing with the LGBT members over how they are asking to be treated. 

You two should reread the thread and 1. look at what you have said, 2. look at how others have responded by post, 3. look at how others have responded by 'likes'. Its not even directly what "you" have said, its the environment it fostered and the implications. 

 

But whatever - this conversation is stale. 

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On 6/22/2021 at 10:22 AM, pwny said:

So whoever wants to learn and isn't just here to argue that they're right, I'm gonna need them to do some work on this. There's certain topics that we still can't discuss here and that's going to be prohibitive to having a discussion wherein we discuss the full nuance of this type of thing. But truly, a simple colorblind wrong search in google will land you on thousands of articles, and hundreds of pieces of psychology and sociology research that fully lay out why the "I don't see [insert really any of the topics we can't discuss on the forum]" are regressive and prohibitive to ending intolerances. If you actually want to learn, give the search a go. Don't go into it expecting that everything about it is wrong. Just go read and take it in for what it is. 

 

Really, the big thing here is just having empathy for your fellow man. Understand and reflect on the feelings they experience. And that starts with a simple acknowledgement that the differences that someone has changes the way they experience the world. And if you refuse to care about those differences, you're never going to really be able to empathize with the struggles they face on a daily or systemic level. And then the next step is understanding equity. People who have different experiences in the world need different things to truly be treated as equal. We have pride month not to shove the gay agenda in everyone's face, but because these people still get disgusted looks and still become the victims of hate crimes just for holding their partner's hand in the mall.

I have a disability; it's nothing life threatening or anything, but it affects everything about how I experience the world. A lot of you know what it is, as I've talked about my journey over the last year in learning more about it and how it impacts me at every level. And someone could sit here and say "I don't see your disability" and that's whatever, but whether you choose to acknowledge my disability or not, I still need medication, I still need accommodations in my work life, I still struggle daily with it. I still need empathy, and I still need equity whether you care to acknowledge that or not.

Empathy and equity; that's all we're asking.

But if someone is just here to rag about cancel culture and yell" so much for the tolerant ____," I'm sure this is going to either be ignored or come back with a retort how this is all wrong. But maybe someone who wants to learn can maybe understand that not caring isn't getting anywhere productive.

 

@43M if you're actually serious about understanding, I hope that helps.

 

So first, super happy for him and I think the representation part is huge. Big win for all the kids that this will inspire and hopefully make more comfortable.

But this mindset overall is a huge problem with society. Huge.

What we've basically done is group people together by race, gender or sexuality and apply sweeping assumptions to them if they fall into that group. The very act of doing this divides the world - whether it should or not (it shouldn't) is irrelevant - by now we all know that it does.

But something you touched on makes all the sense in the world - that we need to have empathy for individuals. Having empathy for an entire group does absolutely nothing for the world when you include members of that group who shouldn't be there and exclude someone who should, because everyone experiences the world differently and that is more than just their race, gender or sexuality.

Debating just to debate on the internet is fine - but what would truly make society better would be if each person focused on their sphere of influence. Have empathy for the people who you interact with daily. Coming into a talk forum and asking people to learn about artificial lines in the sand that we've drawn is going to have the opposite effect of what you're going for.

 

And if you want to get real - race, gender, and sexuality are small potatoes compared to the actual biggest issue in our country: parenting. There is no greater disadvantage than having bad parents or having something awful done to you as a child. Want to go google something? Check out the psychological impact that divorce has on a child. Then ask yourself how we can welcome divorce and think nothing of it when it's that damaging? While we waste our time trying to change people's minds and arguing over semantics - children are being abused. And if we're going to focus on stamping out all the hate, have to go to the root of it, which is parenting. 

Getting to know a person and having empathy for them will do a lot more than applying the sweeping assumptions that their life has been more of a challenge because of ____________.

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1 minute ago, Matts4313 said:

 

You two should reread the thread and 1. look at what you have said, 2. look at how others have responded by post, 3. look at how others have responded by 'likes'. Its not even directly what "you" have said, its the environment it fostered and the implications. 

 

But whatever - this conversation is stale. 

I mean, I literally did a keyword search for the words you said you were called. I don't need to reread the thread to see that you weren't actually called that. You're exaggerating to play victim. You took a post I made to no one in particular, personally. You can reflect on what that says about you, or leave it be, but that's for you to decide at that point, not me.

Though I have to be honest, I do find a certain irony that when a major theme of this topic has been people telling you that it is not necessarily what you say, but how it is received that is the issue, that you're now clarifying that it isn't actually what we've said to you, but the implications and how it has made you feel that is the problem. Very full circle.

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7 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

3. look at how others have responded by 'likes'.

LMAO. the most likes that any on of the three people arguing on your side has gotten is 4. Meanwhile, @Jakuvious's post telling people to stop currently sits at 24. 

Sounds like you should take your own advice. 

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11 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

I mean, I literally did a keyword search for the words you said you were called. I don't need to reread the thread to see that you weren't actually called that. You're exaggerating to play victim. You took a post I made to no one in particular, personally. You can reflect on what that says about you, or leave it be, but that's for you to decide at that point, not me.

Im not going to go quote a bunch of people and cause drama. Suffice it to say that those names have been thrown out or implied several times towards many people. "Saying 'I dont care' is dismissive" followed by a post a few minutes later "People who are dismissive should shut up" followed  by a post "People only say "i dont care" because they are homophobes", "you cant say 'I dont care with out being a prick'", "hurr durr, matts doesnt care!" (even though I never said that), "How do people like that have a job, they must be miserable" etc. It was a chain of people that ultimately led to nonsense and vitriol. 

Quote

Though I have to be honest, I do find a certain irony that when a major theme of this topic has been people telling you that it is not necessarily what you say, but how it is received that is the issue, that you're now clarifying that it isn't actually what we've said to you, but the implications and how it has made you feel that is the problem. Very full circle.

People telling me? I am almost certain you havent actually read the thread. I conceded that point a long time ago. I have no clue why you keep trying to box me into a corner that I am fighting that point. I am not nor have I argued against more accepting phraseology. Could you please stop insinuating that I have? 

I havent. The end. 

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