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Raiders DE Carl Nassib announces he's gay


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1 hour ago, JonStark said:

I agree with that but that is not what everyone has been saying. I was being told that the phrase is harmful and dismissive to everyone, not that some people could take it that way. I have real life examples of not everyone taking it that way, and took offense to people trying to paint me into this insensitive person when I have always supported the movement, the people in my life that struggle with it, and anyone in the world who has been oppressed for any reason that is out of their control. 

Going back to the horror example, I was being told horror is not ok to watch, not that some people do not enjoy horror movies. I honestly believe most of us are on the same side and am not entirely sure how we ended up on separate sides of this debate.

That absolutely makes sense. Sometimes I think I get too caught up in striving to see everyone treated equally that I may lose fact to celebrate the differences as well. The differences are what make us who we are as an individual. Thanks for the insight on that.

I’m genuinely curious who you think was saying every single LGBT person on the planet will be upset if you say “I don’t care” because as far as I know, I was primarily the one you were arguing with and I said absolutely no such thing at any point. Back when the entirety of us on here were trying to figure out what was going to be allowed and not, I told you [actually, I told someone else who was actually being dismissive of LGBT people, and then you jumped in to defend yourself and your usage] to read research that explains the sociological impact of phrases like that if you wanted to understand why we’re saying please stop, and said to do so specifically because it was a topic I was unsure whether or not we could actually discuss at that point because it certainly wasn’t clear at that point that any discussion outside of Carl and his impact was going to be allowed to be discussed. At no point in any conversation anyone had did we tell anyone that everyone views it as harmful and regressive on an individual level nor that you couldn’t say the word in your home. I’m sorry if me being a moderator that was trying not to cross any line in the first ever topic in this site’s history about LGBT people came off as whatever you thought of it, but I assure you at no point was any of these things that you’re saying you got out of the conversation what was actually being said. 

In addition, my comment that you replied to that started this entire thing off came as I was responding to the sentiment of another person who had already been completely dismissive of the “some people don’t like those words, please don’t say them” responses that you’re saying would have cleared everything up and instead asked in a dismissive tone to be “enlightened” as to why his words and his tone were doing harm. 

And very seriously, I’m extremely confused on how you’re getting this idea that you are being painted as insensitive. I showed you yesterday where 7 different times in our conversation and 11 different times to others in this thread, I cited your intent as allyship and said that I didn’t believe you were intending to be harmful. I genuinely do not know where you’re getting this idea that you were being painted as insensitive.

 

Also, in another post you reference being told to basically shut up unless you agree, and that also couldn’t be further from the truth. I simply asked—repeatedly because you kept doing it—to stop dismissing the argument that it could be harmful until you did the research on why it can cause harm that you promised you were going to do. 

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2 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I used to have your same mindset.  “I don’t care, bro”.  I thought it was a good stance.  I thought who could be offended by me not caring?  But then I learned that *some* people view it as dismissive, as though that part of their personality is irrelevant to me when it’s clearly not irrelevant to them. YOU may not care that they’re LGBTQ, but THEY do.  It’s an important part of their identity and one that, for many, was exceptionally difficult to even realize and perhaps even more so to admit openly.

 

I agree w what you're saying 

But I do miss the days when you used to be able to be a dismissive jerk as long as you were an equal opportunity jerk, and the worst anyone could accuse you of was being a jerk. 

Now being an equal opportunity jerk is almost the worst thing you can be because you are expected to be over the top terrible and uncivil to certain people and at the same time warm and caring and empathetic to others.  Its hard to keep up.

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On 6/22/2021 at 12:39 PM, Matts4313 said:

Nah, for real though, I pm'd to find out what I did. Judging by the amount of likes and people responding favorably to my stances of:

A. Support Nassib

B. Support youth 

C. Support acceptance and love

D. Dont allow upbringing, religion or anything else to be an excuse for hate.

@Matts4313  you didn’t bring up people liking your posts? What did you mean when you said this?
 

All I’m asking is that you go find the opinions of the people you were referring to here when you talked about the people liking your posts. Read the things they have said and reflect on why people that have said things that you say you disagree with are the ones supporting you. 

Edited by Dome
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2 minutes ago, mission27 said:

I agree w what you're saying 

But I do miss the days when you used to be able to be a dismissive jerk as long as you were an equal opportunity jerk, and the worst anyone could accuse you of was being a jerk. 

Now being an equal opportunity jerk is almost the worst thing you can be because you are expected to be over the top terrible and uncivil to certain people and at the same time warm and caring and empathetic to others.  Its hard to keep up.

To be honest, this is kinda where I am (the last paragraph). It’s exhausting to have to tiptoe around the “right” things to have to 100% care about vs being indifferent to. Instead of being called a jerk, I can get labeled as something much worse. Blanket labels are a good reason why so many are afraid of honest dialogue about many such issues and matters in society as a whole.

And the other reality is, using the Q 2-3 years ago is a slur that gets me fired or I absolutely send a student to the office for saying (not just the tone) and now it’s acceptable to use. It’s mentally exhausting to keep up with.

 I’m going to continue to love my students, players, and coworkers and stay as up to date on things as I can, but getting lambasted for semantics is where a lot of folks are going to lose people for right or wrong.

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2 minutes ago, Dome said:

@Matts4313  you didn’t bring up people liking your posts? What did you mean when you said this?
 

My B, I was referring to my conversation with pwny/Jak yesterday in regards to you. 

2 minutes ago, Dome said:

All I’m asking is that you go find the opinions of the people you were referring to here when you talked about the people liking your posts. Read the things they have said and reflect on why people that have said things that you say you disagree with are the ones supporting you. 

Ramblin hasnt liked a single post of mine, so I think I am good. Nor most of the people you quoted in your previous attempts to lump different-minded people into one group. 

Arent we supposed to not be talking about posters, anyways? Best we move on. 

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3 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

And the other reality is, using the Q 2-3 years ago is a slur that gets me fired or I absolutely send a student to the office for saying (not just the tone) and now it’s acceptable to use. It’s mentally exhausting to keep up with.

 I’m going to continue to love my students, players, and coworkers and stay as up to date on things as I can, but getting lambasted for semantics is where a lot of folks are going to lose people for right or wrong.

Language is truly an enigma when it comes to what is acceptable and what is not. The speed in which it changes can be difficult to keep up with. 

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7 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

My B, I was referring to my conversation with pwny/Jak yesterday in regards to you. 

ok, so now that you know what we are talking about we can continue.

Quote

Ramblin hasnt liked a single post of mine, so I think I am good.

Ramblinman is a bigoted ******* who said people have the right to be homophobic. So congrats on being a step above what he agrees with.

And please, someone give me a warning for calling the guy openly supports homophobic views an *******. 

Quote

Nor most of the people you quoted in your previous attempts to lump different-minded people into one group.

So I’m assuming you still haven’t looked at the opinions of the people giving you the likes you needed for validation?

You should. 

Quote

Arent we supposed to not be talking about posters, anyways? Best we move on. 

When you say “look at all the people liking my posts” you brought up the posters. Now I’m saying “seriously dude. Look at the people liking your posts”

 

Why can you bring it up, but I can’t? 

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1 minute ago, Dome said:

ok, so now that you know what we are talking about we can continue.

We could, but we shouldnt. Your intent is entirely to provoke and incite. Its to early and I havent had my coffee, so I would rather not waste my morning on you tbh. 

1 minute ago, Dome said:

Ramekin man is a bigoted ******* who said people have the right to be homophobic. So congrats on being a step above what he agrees with.

And please, someone give me a warning for calling the guy openly supports homophobic views an *******. 

So I’m assuming you still haven’t looked at the opinions of the people giving you the likes you needed for validation?

You should. 

When you say “look at all the people liking my posts” you brought up the posters. Now I’m saying “seriously dude. Look at the people liking your posts”

If you want to call out other people for their beliefs, Ill leave it to you. Go to town. 

1 minute ago, Dome said:

Why can you bring it up, but I can’t? 

Because you are wanting to pick fights. 

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11 hours ago, Matts4313 said:

Its not even directly what "you" have said, its the environment it fostered and the implications. 

Man, the most hilarious thing about this conversation is that you can literally say these exact words and still somehow miss the entire argument.

Matts, you’ve somehow gotten it in your head that defending the honor and intent of others who are not intending to do so but are fostering an environment and implications that we’re discussing is the most important thing you could be doing in this thread, while simultaneously arguing that it’s actually the LGBT+ voices and those supporting their request that are actually fostering an environment and implications that are the problem.

I am genuinely amazed that you could jump past the point and “no, u” to the actual marginalized group voicing their thoughts in this argument this late into it.

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4 minutes ago, pwny said:

Man, the most hilarious thing about this conversation is that you can literally say these exact words and still somehow miss the entire argument.

Matts, you’ve somehow gotten it in your head that defending the honor and intent of others who are not intending to do so but are fostering an environment and implications that we’re discussing is the most important thing you could be doing in this thread, while simultaneously arguing that it’s actually the LGBT+ voices and those supporting their request that are actually fostering an environment and implications that are the problem.

I am genuinely amazed that you could jump past the point and “no, u” this entire argument this late into it.

Why are you pulling 11 hour old quotes to bring up false arguments? 

And perhaps I "defended" (lol) a couple posters because a few of you are being jerks and ostracizing "allies" as you call it. But either way - quit pulling up old post in attempts to make me argue with you. You know I cant block you any more so you are just pestering me. 

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10 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

To be honest, this is kinda where I am (the last paragraph). It’s exhausting to have to tiptoe around the “right” things to have to 100% care about vs being indifferent to. Instead of being called a jerk, I can get labeled as something much worse. Blanket labels are a good reason why so many are afraid of honest dialogue about many such issues and matters in society as a whole.

If you are exhausted, imagine how marginalized communities must feel. They also have been labeled much worse than “jerks.”

It’s feels like it’s just indifference to you. But if you were struggling in a major way and people said “it’s all good, I’m indifferent” you wouldn’t feel supported by them. 

Best approach IMO is to put in the extra work and rise above your indifference, cause indifference isn’t helping anyone.

15 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

And the other reality is, using the Q 2-3 years ago is a slur that gets me fired or I absolutely send a student to the office for saying (not just the tone) and now it’s acceptable to use. It’s mentally exhausting to keep up with.

2-3 years ago, someone saying “I identify with the queer community” would get a student sent to the office?

You’re a teacher, I’m sure standard are constantly changing for how you need to handle different situations like this. Is it really that exhausting? I’m keeping up just fine, lots of people are.

I feel like it’s only exhausting if you’re being asked to do something you don’t want to do. If you wanted to be supportive of the community it wouldn’t feel exhausting.

 

15 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

 I’m going to continue to love my students, players, and coworkers and stay as up to date on things as I can, but getting lambasted for semantics is where a lot of folks are going to lose people for right or wrong.

 If you’re trying your best and asking what you can do to help, you won’t be lambasted.

If you say “it’s just too hard” you will be.

 

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8 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

If you want to call out other people for their beliefs, Ill leave it to you. Go to town. 

He said people have the right to be homophobic. 

I will call out that belief. It’s garbage. 

You wanna say that’s not a belief to be attacked? Go to town.

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2 minutes ago, Dome said:

He said people have the right to be homophobic. 

I will call out that belief. It’s garbage. 

You wanna say that’s not a belief to be attacked? Go to town.

pick up some muffins while you are there

love muffins 

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