Raiders DE Carl Nassib announces he's gay

[TENINCH]

1 minute ago, Dome said:

 

You're so glad he came out you forgot to mention it in your first post. 

 

 He's on your side even if you don't want to see it.

[Matts4313]

1 hour ago, Spartacus said:

My cousin lives with his aunt & uncle after being kicked out of his own house at 15 after coming out as gay and not seeking "Treatment".... This happened in 2020.  There isn't even close to a comparison between those who preach tolerance and people like my aunt & uncle. People act like this isn't a big deal and no one should care and I get it.  That is the bubble you live in but its not the bubble my cousin lives in nor is it the bubble many live in the US. I tend to agree with you that there is a breaking point regarding the paradox of tolerance but we are not near that breaking point yet. 

I think there are large gaps between people based around age right now. "Old" people are more entrenched in anti-"other people" and its pretty disgusting. Middle aged people tend to lean more towards accepting. Younger people tend to lean towards its a social status to promote being woke. Its like getting a like on facebook or a follower on twitter.  Its only a matter of time before the "old" way of treating your fellow human will become extinct. 

 

That may not be true for everyone, but its been my personal experience. Granted, I live in the most liberal city in the South, so I dunno, maybe I am biased by seeing all walks of life. That said, the one nice thing about so many people being open about sexuality (among other hot button topics), is that it will continue to break down walls. Which we should applaud Nassib for doing. 

Edited June 22, 2021 by Matts4313

[pwny]

53 minutes ago, Dome said:

I'd like to hear it regardless.

So whoever wants to learn and isn't just here to argue that they're right, I'm gonna need them to do some work on this. There's certain topics that we still can't discuss here and that's going to be prohibitive to having a discussion wherein we discuss the full nuance of this type of thing. But truly, a simple colorblind wrong search in google will land you on thousands of articles, and hundreds of pieces of psychology and sociology research that fully lay out why the "I don't see [insert really any of the topics we can't discuss on the forum]" are regressive and prohibitive to ending intolerances. If you actually want to learn, give the search a go. Don't go into it expecting that everything about it is wrong. Just go read and take it in for what it is. 

 

Really, the big thing here is just having empathy for your fellow man. Understand and reflect on the feelings they experience. And that starts with a simple acknowledgement that the differences that someone has changes the way they experience the world. And if you refuse to care about those differences, you're never going to really be able to empathize with the struggles they face on a daily or systemic level. And then the next step is understanding equity. People who have different experiences in the world need different things to truly be treated as equal. We have pride month not to shove the gay agenda in everyone's face, but because these people still get disgusted looks and still become the victims of hate crimes just for holding their partner's hand in the mall.

I have a disability; it's nothing life threatening or anything, but it affects everything about how I experience the world. A lot of you know what it is, as I've talked about my journey over the last year in learning more about it and how it impacts me at every level. And someone could sit here and say "I don't see your disability" and that's whatever, but whether you choose to acknowledge my disability or not, I still need medication, I still need accommodations in my work life, I still struggle daily with it. I still need empathy, and I still need equity whether you care to acknowledge that or not.

Empathy and equity; that's all we're asking.

But if someone is just here to rag about cancel culture and yell" so much for the tolerant ____," I'm sure this is going to either be ignored or come back with a retort how this is all wrong. But maybe someone who wants to learn can maybe understand that not caring isn't getting anywhere productive.

 

@43M if you're actually serious about understanding, I hope that helps.

[Phinsesq]

Teammates come from all walks of life. 

[ET80]

1 minute ago, pwny said:

So whoever wants to learn and isn't just here to argue that they're right, I'm gonna need them to do some work on this. There's certain topics that we still can't discuss here and that's going to be prohibitive to having a discussion wherein we discuss the full nuance of this type of thing. But truly, a simple colorblind wrong search in google will land you on thousands of articles, and hundreds of pieces of psychology and sociology research that fully lay out why the "I don't see [insert really any of the topics we can't discuss on the forum]" are regressive and prohibitive to ending intolerances. If you actually want to learn, give the search a go. Don't go into it expecting that everything about it is wrong. Just go read and take it in for what it is. 

 

Really, the big thing here is just having empathy for your fellow man. Understand and the feelings they experience. And that starts with a simple acknowledgement that the differences that someone has changes the way they experience the world. And if you refuse to care about those differences, you're never going to really be able to empathize with the struggles they face on a daily or systemic level. And then the next step is understanding equity. People who have different experiences in the world need different things to truly be treated as equal. We have pride month not to shove the gay agenda in everyone's face, but because these people still get disgusted looks and still become the victims of hate crimes just for holding their partner's hand in the mall.

I have a disability; it's nothing life threatening or anything, but it affects everything about how I experience the world. A lot of you know what it is, as I've talked about my journey over the last year in learning more about it and how it impacts me at every level. And someone could sit here and say "I don't see your disability" and that's their prerogative, but whether you choose to acknowledge my disability or not, I still need medication, I still need accommodations in my work life, I still struggle daily with it. I still need empathy, and I still need equity whether you care to acknowledge that or not.

Empathy and equity; that's all we're asking.

But if someone is just here to rag about cancel culture and yell" so much for the tolerant ____," I'm sure this is going to either be ignored or some back with a retort how this is all wrong. But maybe someone who wants to learn can maybe understand that not caring isn't getting anywhere productive.

 

@43M if you're actually serious about understanding, I hope that helps.

Very well said.

[ET80]

Jon Gruden and Mark Davis responses:

https://www.nfl.com/news/jon-gruden-praises-carl-nassib-what-makes-a-man-different-is-what-makes-him-grea

[SteelKing728]

15 minutes ago, MikeT14 said:

Honestly, I don't know. I think most countries are still as bad about it as we are. Look at Mexico recently with the soccer match. Hell, the soccer community in general tells you all you need to know about it being close. 

I don't follow soccer or Mexico lol

[Rainmaker90]

4 minutes ago, Dome said:

It's a type of logic that is only ever used to defend oppressors. That's literally it's only use. 

 

Oh god they're going to take this comment as a huge win.

You said it. People try to hold onto the smallest thread to claim that both sides are similar or the same 

[Malfatron]

21 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

I, personally, am glad that he came out and provides a face to the LBGT community in a male dominated sport. 

agreed.

 

[Deadpulse]

1 hour ago, 43M said:

I respect your take....and I respect people for showing support of Carl...as we should.

But too often these days, the people preaching tolerance are often the most intolerant ones.   

Its one thing to criticize those who bash Carl for his orientation....its another to attack those who are merely indifferent and don't care either way.

I agree a level of indifference shouldn't be attacked. I do think those people should be pushed, which is why I push you here and now. The endgame is indifference isnt it? We want to be in a place where this isn't news, its just a personal detail about someone's personal life. Society just isn't there yet for this attitude. If the the level of indifference to things like this rises disproportionally to level of hate and bigotry then we go backwards, not forwards. We need people to care about this stuff still. Maybe someday we won't have to, but today is not that day. 

[Glen]

Nassib coming out like this was obviously quite important to him, if it wasn’t he would have just kept it to those he cares about sharing it with.

Responding to him/any LGBTQ individual coming out with “I don’t care” just deflates the person’s moment that they felt was very special to them.

Its fine that you don’t care if they’re gay, given the same that it’s fine that you don’t care someone is straight.

But it would be like responding to someone who says it’s their birthday “I don’t care”, just on a far more personal scale given this is their livelihood. Where any kind/decent person who honestly may not actually care would just respond “happy birthday”.

[SteelKing728]

38 minutes ago, TENINCH said:

Not a big deal to me. US is more excepting than 99% of other countries. My bro-in law is gay. He dresses in drag. I've gone to a few gay clubs to see him perform.

Nassib essentially told me the that grass is green. That's great Nassib but how many QB sacks are you getting this year. Are you going to start this year? Right now your just an average to below average player.

Same. My best friend is gay. Its only a small part of his life (just like politics, religion, cultural beliefs etc) even though its an important part. I'd like to see society at large come to that view, but I'm at least doing my part.

Now, I do hope he starts to get better or his football career might end soon.

Edited June 22, 2021 by SteelKing728

[Matts4313]

9 minutes ago, Dome said:

How many kids are getting kicked onto the streets because they're watching a different TV show than their parents?

How many people are afraid of being fired because they prefer bologna over a "real" lunchmeat?

How many people think they might get beat up if anyone finds out they like jazz music?

I literally addressed this by saying it was a bigger issue....

9 minutes ago, Dome said:

You said the magazine example was a dumb example and you are totally right, and the fact that you used it says everything I need to know about why you're arguing. You shouldn't have to use "dumb" examples.

Dumb examples grow up to be stupid points.

You seem awfully angry today, might want to take a chill pill. How about rephrasing it this way: A person can both

A: Not be interested in an individuals sexual preference

while also

B: Be interested in human rights for all individuals. 

7 minutes ago, Dome said:

 

You're so glad he came out you forgot to mention it in your first post. 

 

My initial post was in regards to something Malf said. It was not "my stance"; it was a counter point that I could see people subscribing to. 

[Dome]

2 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

I literally addressed this by saying it was a bigger issue....

If you agree the folks who say "I don't care" are helping keep people oppressed and we'll be on the same page and all is good.

Cause you say it's a bigger issue, but it also seems like you've been supportive of the idea that people who just don't care about the issue are somehow more progressive.

 

You see how those ideas conflict? If you think it's a big issue that needs to be addressed and made public, you should probably not like when people don't care. 

[KimuraGod]

1 hour ago, RamblinMan99 said:

Ok, let’s take Tony Dungy for example.  
 

He’s a respectable guy around the league.  
 

When Michael Sam was drafted by St. Louis, Tony Dungy said he would prefer not to have somebody like Michael Sam on his team because he wouldn’t “want to deal with it.”  
 

What he was trying to say is that this is not something that everybody is automatically going to be ok with.  
 

That had a lot to do with why Michael Sam didn’t play a regular season game in the NFL. 
 

It wouldn’t be all that surprising if Nassib were to leave the league after this upcoming season too.  

Which was precisely the point I made earlier in the thread about players of colour back in the 40/50’s. 
 

If Tony Dungy did say that then I feel he made a mistake there. There will always be a barrier that needs to be broken just like it did in sports when only white athletes were allowed to play. Go watch the Jackie Robinson film and see what he had to endure to ‘force’ narrow-minded individuals to accept people of colour into sports. 
 

The same now could be said for people from the LBGTQ community. I for a long time was the epitome of ‘not seeing colour/orientation’ and thinking that was enough. I’d easily stick up for someone being attacked/assaulted but how rare is that to actually see?

Instead it’s the stuff you don’t see and the pain that’s caused that make statements that you’ve made very insulting and ridiculous.