Your top 5 pass rushers as of 2021

[Matts4313]

6 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

This is based on the chips in each player's helmet.  It's as exact as you could possibly get.  Far more exact than thinking someone is good at rushing the passer when they have double-digit sacks, but half their sacks come from cleaning up someone else's pressure.

Link or better explanation? Is it by proximity then? 

[HTTRDynasty]

12 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

Link or better explanation? Is it by proximity then? 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29939464/2020-nfl-pass-rushing-run-stopping-blocking-leaderboard-win-rate-rankings

[Matts4313]

1 minute ago, HTTRDynasty said:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29939464/2020-nfl-pass-rushing-run-stopping-blocking-leaderboard-win-rate-rankings

That doesnt say anything about chips in helmets when it comes to measuring things... 

[HTTRDynasty]

2 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

That doesnt say anything about chips in helmets when it comes to measuring things... 

"using player tracking data from NFL Next Gen Stats."

Do you know what NFL Next Gen Stats is, and how the stats are collected?  If not, go look it up.

 

[Matts4313]

4 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

"using player tracking data from NFL Next Gen Stats."

Do you know what NFL Next Gen Stats is, and how the stats are collected?  If not, go look it up.

 

I do know what NGS stats are. But again, this doesnt answer my question. Is it simply using proximity? Because being close to someone doesnt mean you are double teaming/blocking them. 

[HTTRDynasty]

18 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

I do know what NGS stats are. But again, this doesnt answer my question. Is it simply using proximity? Because being close to someone doesnt mean you are double teaming/blocking them. 

I'll take their word for it that they know what a double team is / looks like.  But feel free to write to NGS/ESPN for clarification.

[Matts4313]

1 minute ago, HTTRDynasty said:

I'll take their word for it that they know what a double team is / looks like.  But feel free to write to NGS/ESPN for clarification.

Instead of coming off condescending and linking useless articles, you could have saved both our time by saying "I dont know". 

[HTTRDynasty]

24 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

Instead of coming off condescending and linking useless articles, you could have saved both our time by saying "I dont know". 

"Link or better explanation?"

Right.  Do you.

[Matts4313]

2 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

"Link or better explanation?"

Right.  Do you.

That was me asking for information because I didnt know, homie. 

[HTTRDynasty]

2 hours ago, Matts4313 said:

That was me asking for information because I didnt know, homie. 

Just like my response was me providing you with what I do know.

[Ozzy]

5 hours ago, Matts4313 said:

I do know what NGS stats are. But again, this doesnt answer my question. Is it simply using proximity? Because being close to someone doesnt mean you are double teaming/blocking them. 

Totally agree.

 

This by the way is probably all the information you need on the subject and actually explains some things which I found by poking around.  Below is an example of it which answers a few of my questions which makes it a bit more legit than just a computer chip, they put some thought into it and are trying to correct the many errors that come from it so far.  So it is a big work in progress still but interesting information and gives credit to dudes who get little in offensive lineman and sometimes even defensive lineman.  

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24892208/creating-better-nfl-pass-blocking-pass-rushing-stats-analytics-explainer-faq-how-work

 

• Improved handling of double-teams: We corrected a number of false positive rush-wins when a rusher beats one lineman in the double-team but not the other. Additionally, we were previously tallying only double-teams between two offensive linemen. Now we tally double-teams regardless of the position combination, so running backs and tight ends count too.

• Improved handling of unusual pocket geometries: In an effort to capture when a rusher is able to collapse a pocket, we analyzed pocket geometry throughout each pass play. But our logic was often fooled whenever the pocket became "convex" (bending away from QB instead of around him), making it appear the rusher has caved the pocket when he hasn't. We've fixed this.

• Corrected occasional false positive rush wins: Our algorithm depends on proximity and orientation to determine who is blocking whom. So when a blocker is slow to engage immediately after the snap, it can look like a rusher is unblocked. Similarly, if there is about to be a double-team and the nearer blocker is slow to engage, it could appear as though the rusher has instantly beaten the block from the more distant blocker. This also was fixed.

• Significantly improved identification of which players are truly blocking and rushing: Our original logic merely defined rushers as defenders who crossed the line of scrimmage and defined blockers as offensive players who did not cross the line of scrimmage. This was acceptable for the vast majority of rushers and blockers, but wasn't very accurate for tight ends, backs and linebackers. The new logic is adapted from our latest player tracking project and is much more accurate. Block-and-go-type releases by tight ends and backs who do not cross the line of scrimmage are no longer counted against them as pass-block losses (and no longer count as pass-rush wins for the defender who is released).

• Team-level PBWR and PRWR summary calculations now use the same logic as the individual-level metrics: We previously used a slightly different way of calculating the rates for teams than for individuals, but our improvements this year help lessen the need for different methods.

We can expect the improvements to cause PBWR numbers to increase and PRWR numbers to decrease as a whole. Double-team rate numbers will increase. The bottom line is that overall accuracy is substantially improved.

[Bearerofnews]

On 7/5/2021 at 9:14 AM, mattyice0401 said:

My list in no particular order not including AD

Danielle Hunter

Von Miller

Myles Garrett

CJ95

TJ Watt

I have a hard time putting any of the Bosa brothers in the list People tout Joey like hes a god send when it comes to rushing the passer but to me it seems like hes always hurt and has never had over 13 sacks in a year, Nick Bosa could be in the list but hes only had one year of production and had 9 sakcs that year on STACKED DL.

 

Bad list. But go off.

[Bearerofnews]

On 7/6/2021 at 12:53 PM, vegas492 said:

Top of my head....

Myles Garret, TJ Watt, Aaron Donald.  Top 3.

Mack and Hunter in there, probably with the Bosa's for the next 2.

Then you have a whole lot of really good guys like Barrett, Z Smith, Chase Young (could break out of this tier easily), Chandler Jones....just a lot of them.  Maybe JJ Watt is still in there, too.  Maybe even Vonn Miller.

But the best are Garrett, TJ, Donald, Mack and Hunter.  Mack may have slowed down some, but he's a pass rush beast.

Gonna be interesting watching the younger kids like Josh Allen, Rashan Gary, Montaz Sweat and Chase Young.  Surely I'm missing plenty, too.  

Joey is no lower than 3, stop it.

Man some of yall be doing too much.

[HTTRDynasty]

19 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Ranking the NFL's top 10 edge rushers for 2021: Execs, coaches, players make their picks

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/31733216/ranking-nfl-top-10-edge-rushers-2021-execs-coaches-players-make-their-picks

 

1. Myles Garrett, Cleveland Browns

Highest ranking: 1 | Lowest ranking: 8
Age: 25 | Last year's ranking: 5

Garrett and T.J. Watt traded first-place votes throughout the process, with Garrett winning out based on his magnificent traits.

Asking general managers which pass-rusher around which they'd build a defense, most said Garrett. Evaluators weren't as sold before last season, when they felt Garrett underachieved and would get washed out by a good blocking scheme or seasoned left tackle (and he was also coming off a six-game suspension.) No longer.

"Absolutely made a massive jump last year," a veteran AFC defensive coach said. "From a physical standpoint setting the edge and as a pass-rusher he's just gifted. He put it all together. He was so difficult to deal with, snap in and snap out."

Garrett's pass-rush win rate of 26.3% last season ranked third among edge rushers despite facing 104 double teams. He won on 15 of those (14.4%), which ranked 12 in the league.

Garrett led all edge rushers in sacks created (16.5), a stat that takes into account plays in which his pressure resulted in a sack for a teammate. He caused 29 incompletions (fourth in the league). Garrett has recorded at least 18 quarterback hits in all four of his NFL seasons.

"Built out of a lab," an AFC scout said. "Zero weaknesses. Power, bend, speed."

---

2. T.J. Watt, Pittsburgh Steelers

Highest ranking: 1 | Lowest ranking: 8
Age: 26 | Last year's ranking: 7

There's not a category that Watt doesn't dominate.

Not only did he lead the league in pass-rush win rate (29.1%), but his four pass-rush interceptions created tied for first, and his 40 caused incompletions led the NFL by a wide margin. Aaron Donald was the next closest at 30. His 15.5 sacks and 23 tackles for loss led the league.

And, oh yeah, Watt can play the run and cover tight ends if the defense needs.

"Incredibly productive player in every phase," an NFC exec said. "Probably has the best combination of motor and smarts in the league. He wins with intelligence, effort, technique, positioning."

All these factors made a compelling case for the top spot. Some evaluators consider Watt an overachiever.

"The truth is he might not have been the best athlete at his own position," an NFC defensive coach said, referring to former teammate Bud Dupree, who signed with Tennessee as a free agent. "He's not the most explosive guy. But he's so damn relentless and smart and technically perfect that he just wins. He'll probably have a Hall of Fame career for all those reasons."

---

3. Joey Bosa, Los Angeles Chargers

Highest ranking: 1 | Lowest ranking: 10
Age: 25 | Last year's ranking: 6

Pass-rush purists love Bosa, and that showed in the voting. Some who preferred singular athletes such as Garrett were a bit lower on Bosa, while those who prioritize technique love him.

"Best technician in the NFL -- great short-area speed, best hands," one NFL personnel evaluator said.

The game's highest-paid pass-rusher at $27.5 million per year, Bosa had another tremendous season, putting up a 24.9% pass-rush win rate (fifth in the league). He created 26 incompletions, fourth best among edge rushers, though he didn't match his peers in double-team effectiveness (five wins on 64 attempts, 7.8%).

"He's a load," an NFL veteran offensive lineman told me. "His ability to create leverage makes for a long day."

---

4. Khalil Mack, Chicago Bears

Highest ranking: 1 | Lowest ranking: 9
Age: 30 | Last year's ranking: 1

Mack was good in 2020. Last year's No. 1 pass-rusher on our list won 19% of his pass rushes and created 13 total sacks, including nine individually.

Some evaluators question, however, whether he was great.

"I didn't think he was last year," an NFL coordinator said. "Robert Quinn [on the other side] didn't do him any favors. But [Mack] simply didn't win enough for a player of his caliber."

To be sure, Mack appeared on the injury report 10 times while dealing with knee, back, ankle and shoulder injuries. But his double-team rate has declined in each of the last three seasons, yet his win rate was three percentage points lower than in 2019. Mack won 9.7% of his double teams (seven of 72).

"His 'wow' plays are unbelievable," the coordinator said. "There just weren't enough of them."

---

5. Chandler Jones, Arizona Cardinals

Highest ranking: 3 | Lowest ranking: 9
Age: 31 | Last year's ranking: 2

Jones' injury-shortened 2020 season doesn't discount his standing among the game's best.

He fell three spots after missing 11 games with a biceps injury that required surgery. He finished the year with one sack and seven quarterback pressures.

But no pass-rusher has been more consistent when healthy than Jones, who averaged 14.5 sacks per season from 2014-19. And his game should translate to multiple high-level years in Arizona, evaluators agree.

"I still don't understand why the Patriots let him go," an AFC defensive coach said. "His bend, hands and flexibility are still elite. Most guys his size [6-foot-5, 265 pounds] aren't flexible, but he gets lower than you'd think and that tackles can't handle. And I don't think a bicep injury will change that."

---

6. Von Miller, Denver Broncos

Highest ranking: 1 | Lowest ranking: 11
Age: 32 | Last year's ranking: 4

Surprised that a pass-rusher who didn't play a snap last season is ranked this high? Don't be. The Broncos said plenty about Miller's place in the game by picking up a $17.5 million option for an aging player in a salary-cap-strapped year during the pandemic.

It's because Miller is still a premier player, even with the ankle injury that derailed his 2020 season last September. He has averaged 0.79 sacks per game for his career, tied with J.J. Watt for second among any player with at least 100 games played. Only Reggie White is ahead of them.

Returning from ankle surgery will test that pace, but supporters are willing to bet on him.

"He's still the best when he's healthy," an NFC exec said. "He's No. 1 on my list. His ability to win off the edge with bend is still second to none."

Miller's 106 sacks through his first nine seasons are the fifth-most by any player since individual sacks became official in 1982.

"He understands what it takes to win, so I'm not so worried about his injury," an AFC defensive coach said. "He knows what it takes to win."

There is some positive buzz in Denver, too, about Miller's return.

---

7. Chase Young, Washington Football Team

Highest ranking: 2 | Lowest ranking: 12
Age: 22 | Last year's ranking: NR

The can't-miss prospect out of the 2020 draft proved that he was up to that description during his rookie season. His 22.5% pass-rush win rate ranked eighth among all NFL defenders, and he showed a flare for the splash play with four forced fumbles and four pass deflections.

"He's going to be dominant for a very long time," a veteran NFL defensive coach said. "Monster. You could see that coming out of Ohio State. He not only had the massive talent but acted like a professional before he got to the league. He knows what it takes, and his get-off is already one of the best in the league."

Young also handles double teams well, winning 10 of 69 matchups (14.5%) when covered by two blockers. He's the youngest player in this top 10 by three full years and could be primed to move up as his career progresses.

---

8. Nick Bosa, San Francisco 49ers

Highest ranking: 2 | Lowest ranking: Unranked
Age: 25 | Last year's ranking: 3

The torn ACL in Week 2 last season caused Bosa's inevitable drop from No. 3 last year, but voters are still high on his elite ability in the long term.

Bosa won Defensive Rookie of the Year in 2019 with nine sacks, 25 quarterback hits and 16 tackles for loss. He didn't have enough time to put up numbers but still posted an impressive 84.9 Pro Football Focus rating in limited 2020 action.

"Instincts and technique -- excellent with his hands and counters and plays with power," an NFC scout said. "Really no 'wow' physical trait but knows how to play the game. Can play the run and pass with no real weakness there."

---

9. Cameron Jordan, New Orleans Saints

Highest ranking: 2 | Lowest ranking: Unranked
Age: 31 | Last year's ranking: 9

One NFL defensive coordinator put Jordan in his top five for interior defensive linemen and pass-rushers.

"He belongs on either list," the coordinator said. "Doesn't matter where he lines up. Just a great football player."

Jordan's sack totals dipped from 15.5 to 7.5 and his 11.6% pass-rush win rate in 2020 wasn't elite. But the Saints had some early-season injuries that allowed offenses to focus on Jordan, thus affecting his numbers. And he won 14.3% of his rushes from the interior.

Jordan's 214 pressures over four seasons trail only Aaron Donald (229), and his run-stop win rate of 27% is a strength.

Coaches say Jordan gets a ton of backfield pressure that doesn't show up in the numbers. An AFC defensive coach added: "Defenses know what move he's gonna throw at you and still can't stop it. He has this stab, swipe, arm-over move that is a beast. Just has really innate timing and feel with his hands."

---

10. Danielle Hunter, Minnesota Vikings

Highest ranking: 4 | Lowest ranking: Unranked
Age: 26 | Last year's ranking: Honorable mention

Hunter finished just outside of the top 10 going into last season, but voters recognized just how much the Vikings missed him in 2020. The numbers say Minnesota's pass production cut nearly in half without Hunter, who missed the entire season after undergoing surgery to repair a herniated disc.

Since 2019, the Vikings have 42 sacks on opponents' 527 dropbacks (8%) with Hunter on the field, yet 29 sacks on 679 dropbacks (4.3%) with Hunter off the field. Hunter racked up 56 pressures by himself in 2019, yet the Vikings had 137 total pressures as a team last season, fourth-fewest in the NFL.

Still underpaid on a five-year, $72 million deal, expect Hunter to remind Minnesota of his worth in 2021.

"He's kind of like Myles Garrett in that he's built like a Marvel character," an AFC scout said. "Special traits and he has length to win and counter moves to go with it."

 

Edge rushers also receiving votes

Shaquil Barrett, Tampa Bay Buccaneers: "He's a pure pass-rusher and very talented but not sure he's as complete a player as others on this list. The Bucs needed to wait and see on him with the franchise tag. But he was [great] in the playoffs and [is] a helluva player. But if we're talking top 10, that's a tough sell for me." -- AFC exec

Za'Darius Smith, Green Bay Packers: "With those heavy hands, he can play the run and the pass, he gets TFLs, lives in the backfield, can play inside and out. He's elite for me." -- AFC defensive coach

Frank Clark, Kansas City Chiefs: "He's still a problem. Natural pass-rusher but he can do a little bit of everything. He's got to bring it more consistently." -- NFC defensive coach

Brian Burns, Carolina Panthers: "He's one of those next top-tier guys. He's not at that level yet, but he's coming. He can go." -- NFL coordinator

Matt Judon, New England Patriots: "I'm partial to complete football players and this guy can do it all vs. run and pass." -- AFC defensive coach

Bud Dupree, Tennessee Titans: "As far as explosion, burst off the edge and pass-rush traits, he was one of the most talented guys in Pittsburgh, and was finally putting it together before the injury." -- AFC scout

Circling back to this, I just noticed that this ranking from NFL execs, players and coaches mirrors my own for the first 3 players.  Then if you ignore the next 3 players who are 30+ years old, it matches my list exactly.

Pretty cool.

[Sad People]

5 hours ago, Bearerofnews said:

Bad list. But go off.

Did realize a list of opinion could be "bad" but go off