Agree or Disagree: Wins and Losses Should Be A QB Stat

[BobbyPhil1781]

28 minutes ago, LeotheLion said:

This is a really bad way to look at it though. It would be like arguing that interceptions shouldn't be a QB stat because some balls bounce off the WRs hands. 

Is any other position as important to winning as the QB? No. So like I said, I think it matters because the goal is always to win. The best QBs in the league are usually always on winning teams. It's only when you get to the average ones that there can be big swings. 

I think everyone like to say QBs wins aren't stats but they still base that into their arguments. If QB wins isn't a stat then do you consider Brady the goat? 

Well, you just showed how stats can be flawed. Are all INTs the QB's fault? Nope. Context is important.

No, no other position on offense is as important but the QB is extremely useless on the defensive side of the ball. He's not even on the field lol..... You seem to be forgetting the other side of the ball in all your statements.  You can't base your argument around "the best in the league". You have to look at the league as a whole IMO b/c they're still playing and they cannot put the team on their shoulders. They need help from every other person on the roster to win games. No one has argued against the QB being the most valuable part of the team which is where I feel you're getting it twisted b/c that seems to be the basis of your entire argument....

 

Edited July 16, 2021 by BobbyPhil1781

[Nick_gb]

4 hours ago, BobbyPhil1781 said:

This is an on-going debate in another forum so why not bring it here.

Fairly self-explanatory: Do you agree or disagree that wins and losses should be credited to the QB when they don't even play on one side of the ball and most don't even call plays?

I'm finding it hard to put all the success and blame on one guy. Is he the most important piece of the offense? Absolutely. Does he inadvertently help the defense by sustained drives and not turning the ball over? Absolutely. The same can be said for the defense though. Field position, forcing turnovers, etc helps the offense just as much. As stated above as well, most QBs don't even call their own plays so if you have some whack coach, which we all know exist, why does the QB get punished for their horrible play calling?

I get that "it's just the way it is" but I'm hoping we can apply some critical thinking here.

I tried searching for a thread that might already have this discussion and came up empty. I don't ever come in here so if this has been recently discussed, please link me to the thread.

Thoughts?

The problem with this is that often times (more times then not) Quarterbacks are credited with wins by either the media or fan bases. For instance, take the NE Patriots SB win over Atlanta and that amazing comeback the PATRIOTS had but Brady gets the credit for. 
 

If that’s going to be the thought process then losses needed to be accounted for by those Quarterbacks as well. This can’t be a what he does good let’s discuss but let’s sweep the losses under the rug or discuss how we didn’t play well on all 3 phases type nonsense. 

[ET80]

Disagree. Wins are a team stat. Plenty of QBs played bad games in a winning effort. They shouldn't get this credited as some sort of stat.

[BobbyPhil1781]

29 minutes ago, Nick_gb said:

The problem with this is that often times (more times then not) Quarterbacks are credited with wins by either the media or fan bases. For instance, take the NE Patriots SB win over Atlanta and that amazing comeback the PATRIOTS had but Brady gets the credit for. 
 

If that’s going to be the thought process then losses needed to be accounted for by those Quarterbacks as well. This can’t be a what he does good let’s discuss but let’s sweep the losses under the rug or discuss how we didn’t play well on all 3 phases type nonsense. 

Yep, I know that's what they do and I'm just saying I disagree w/ that notion and feel it's an incorrect thing to do.

We're not bowling here lol. Everyone contributes.

[Forge]

No. Wins and losses for a QB really tell me nothing about the QBs quality of play. 

[scar988]

5 hours ago, BobbyPhil1781 said:

This is an on-going debate in another forum so why not bring it here.

Fairly self-explanatory: Do you agree or disagree that wins and losses should be credited to the QB when they don't even play on one side of the ball and most don't even call plays?

I'm finding it hard to put all the success and blame on one guy. Is he the most important piece of the offense? Absolutely. Does he inadvertently help the defense by sustained drives and not turning the ball over? Absolutely. The same can be said for the defense though. Field position, forcing turnovers, etc helps the offense just as much. As stated above as well, most QBs don't even call their own plays so if you have some whack coach, which we all know exist, why does the QB get punished for their horrible play calling?

I get that "it's just the way it is" but I'm hoping we can apply some critical thinking here.

I tried searching for a thread that might already have this discussion and came up empty. I don't ever come in here so if this has been recently discussed, please link me to the thread.

Thoughts?

QB Wins and Losses are not a stat. The amount of games some QBs should have won where they led their team to over 30 points and still lost due to poor defense is mind boggling.

[scar988]

1 hour ago, Nick_gb said:

The problem with this is that often times (more times then not) Quarterbacks are credited with wins by either the media or fan bases. For instance, take the NE Patriots SB win over Atlanta and that amazing comeback the PATRIOTS had but Brady gets the credit for. 
 

If that’s going to be the thought process then losses needed to be accounted for by those Quarterbacks as well. This can’t be a what he does good let’s discuss but let’s sweep the losses under the rug or discuss how we didn’t play well on all 3 phases type nonsense. 

A lot of people try to blame Matt Ryan for that loss too... last I checked, Matt Ryan didn't give up the lead. The defense did. Giving a defense a 25-point lead should be an auto-win in literally any game.

[Ray Reed]

I mean I will say that pretty much all of the QBs people consider “all time greats” found themselves winning plenty more games than they lost

How many all time great QBs (publicly perceived at least) didn’t have a good W-L record and some post season success? Like, Archie Manning maybe?

May not be fair but it certainly comes with the territory

[Thomas5737]

QB wins and losses is already a stat. It may not be recognized by the NFL but it is still tabulated.

I don't know whether I think it should be an official stat or not. If it is people will use it as proof of something and they shouldn't but they do that now so what is the difference I guess.

It wouldn't be "fair" but it isn't fair that one MLB pitcher is 13-6 with a 5.02 ERA and another is 7-12 with a 2.47 ERA. If people think wins/losses are the sole credit to one player in a team sport you probably shouldn't talk sports with them.

 

Even so, Tom Brady is the GOAT because he has won.... oops we are giving him credit for a team sport.

[Kip Smithers]

Nope. 

[Apparition]

Nope. And 

24 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

It wouldn't be "fair" but it isn't fair that one MLB pitcher is 13-6 with a 5.02 ERA and another is 7-12 with a 2.47 ERA. If people think wins/losses are the sole credit to one player in a team sport you probably shouldn't talk sports with them.

Hot take, but pitcher W-L record never should've been an official stat in baseball, either. Nowadays, with starters rarely going more than 6 innings, it's particularly useless.

But quarterback is probably the single position in sports where the stats tell the least about the actual performance of the player to whom they're attributed. The rule of sample sizes applies, of course, but there is never any individual QB stat from which you can, at a glance, reliably and accurately deduce the quality of the performance over the course of a single game, or even a single season. 

[Jakuvious]

4 hours ago, Trentwannabe said:

If my math is right, the Bills had 82 wins from the 2006 season through the 2017 season.

Id say maybe 10 of those were because of good or great QB play. A majority was because of great defense and special teams. Yet, those wins count all the same for the different QBs that played.

I'm not sure what your argument is here. Over that same stretch, didn't they have 110 losses? So it isn't like that win total makes it look like the Bills had good QBs, if you treat W/L as a QB stat. It would look like they had subpar QBs that entire time.

[Trentwannabe]

17 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

I'm not sure what your argument is here. Over that same stretch, didn't they have 110 losses? So it isn't like that win total makes it look like the Bills had good QBs, if you treat W/L as a team stat. It would look like they had subpar QBs that entire time.

That is my point.

the Bills won games despite the QB play and very rarely ever won because of it. Ergo, wins and losses are not a QB stat.

[Jakuvious]

Personally, I'm perfectly fine as it being tracked as a statistic. Like any other statistic though, it is inherently flawed, context matters, sample size matters, and it's capable of being incredibly misused in poor arguments. Like, obviously it's a foolish argument to say X QB is better than Y QB because they won more games. Cam Newton isn't better than Deshaun Watson because the Pats won more games last year. But that same thing applies to any statistic we track. The same could be said for any statistic if you just swap some names and teams around.

[Jakuvious]

1 minute ago, Trentwannabe said:

That is my point.

the Bills won games despite the QB play and very rarely ever won because of it. Ergo, wins and losses are not a QB stat.

No, you completely missed mine. They had 82 wins and 110 losses. If you look at wins and losses as a QB stat, it looks like the Bills had subpar QB play, just like they did. The Bills are not an example at all of that stat not reflecting reality.