Training Camp 2021

[Bobby816]

2 hours ago, xrade said:

I gotta comment on this.  Your point is absolutely logical but the reality is SEC QB’s have some pretty horrible histories. I will not rehash the argument about the failures of Bama or LSU QB’s (you can throw OSU in here also) but the point that they also played in elite offenses kind of offsets the playing against elite defenses.  On the surface Big 4 QB’s should be better prepared for NFL D’s but they just don’t pan out as much as one would expect. If anyone on here is going to school for sports, it might make an interesting thesis. 

The future hall of famer, Trevor Lawrence, is not having a better camp than Zack.  Time will tell. 

Your assumption is based on that these SEC QBs are great QBs. And I don’t think anyone from the SEC as a QB recently was supposed to be great and they were bad.

The only SEC QBs with a lot of hype in the last however many years have been Burrow, Tua, Newton and Stafford. I think Mac Jones is the only other active QB from the SEC that’s been drafted in the top 15. And obviously we can’t judge him yet.

 

But strictly on talent, coaching, week in and week out competition… the SEC prepares players the best for the NFL. That was the reason for me saying that. Doesn’t mean players from non big time schools can’t be great. Just means their adjustment period is normally longer. Which is ok. But as fans we have to realize this. To expect Wilson to look like Burrow or last year probably won’t happen

[rickyt31]

2 hours ago, KingOfNewYork said:

I don’t think it’s a reading defense issue. Like he said he’s trying to see what he can and can’t get away with and he won’t know until he makes the throw and it’s better to be done in practice. Now if he was throwing the ball over guys heads or into the dirt then we should be concerned.

That's different.  Throughout the season,  defenses gain more footage and find weaknesses to attack and/or show different looks Wilson may not be used to. Having a vet QB who has experienced adapting in game and Throughout the season helps. 

 

I think he will be fine, he's just going to need more time than the other QBs because he didn't have a vet to provide examples and point out things from the QB POV. I'm trying to find a good QB the last 25 years who didn't have a experienced QB to watch at practice their rookie season.  It's risky but we have JJ who has been in the league for a while and experienced different systems. He'll definitely help with to a certain point. 

[rickyt31]

Glad we added Edmond Robinson to the LB. That was the type of vet I was looking for. Experienced if needed but also a good benchmark for the other LBs. If they all suck, we can still add someone from preseason cuts. 

 

If JJ at QB is a good fit and example for Wilson, I think I'm good on vets now unless it's someone big like Lattimore that can lock 🔐 a position for years. 

Edited August 12, 2021 by rickyt31

[jetsfan4life51]

Every time I see the name Lance I think

[xrade]

10 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

Your assumption is based on that these SEC QBs are great QBs. And I don’t think anyone from the SEC as a QB recently was supposed to be great and they were bad.

The only SEC QBs with a lot of hype in the last however many years have been Burrow, Tua, Newton and Stafford. I think Mac Jones is the only other active QB from the SEC that’s been drafted in the top 15. And obviously we can’t judge him yet.

 

But strictly on talent, coaching, week in and week out competition… the SEC prepares players the best for the NFL. That was the reason for me saying that. Doesn’t mean players from non big time schools can’t be great. Just means their adjustment period is normally longer. Which is ok. But as fans we have to realize this. To expect Wilson to look like Burrow or last year probably won’t happen

I can understand that.  I guess I am just looking at SEC QB's and the failure rate based on the hype of drafting them and the success they had in college.  I would still like to know why many do not succeed in the NFL.  I think it comes down to the things we fans may not pay attention to when we see them play on Saturdays.  A good NFL coach may be able to spot the reasons for their potential success or failure.  From my perspective, ZW has all the traits you look for in a QB except playing against elite D's and maybe size.  Whereas a Mac Jones, Tua, Vince Young, etc had some mistakes covered up by the elite O's they were in.

I will be interesting to watch the careers of ZW, Trevor, Fields and Mac.

[Bobby816]

3 minutes ago, xrade said:

I can understand that.  I guess I am just looking at SEC QB's and the failure rate based on the hype of drafting them and the success they had in college.  I would still like to know why many do not succeed in the NFL.  I think it comes down to the things we fans may not pay attention to when we see them play on Saturdays.  A good NFL coach may be able to spot the reasons for their potential success or failure.  From my perspective, ZW has all the traits you look for in a QB except playing against elite D's and maybe size.  Whereas a Mac Jones, Tua, Vince Young, etc had some mistakes covered up by the elite O's they were in.

I will be interesting to watch the careers of ZW, Trevor, Fields and Mac.

I think that's the thoughts by a lot. But that's with relatively no research (and that's understandable). Most just think there's so many good teams in the SEC, so surely there's great QBs. But that's not the case, as I mentioned. I've actually have had countless conversations over the years how teams like LSU surprisingly never have a great QB. And it's very weird. But it's true. These teams get good recruits, but rarely does is amount to a great NCAA career and being highly drafted. Just further proves that where you went to school has 0 to do with how good of a pro you will be.

BUT...........

If you do play at a top school like in the SEC. Regardless of position IMO you're way more NFL ready than someone who's not. That doesn't mean that a player from lets say LSU will be better than a guy from lets say UTEP. It just means that the guy from LSU is more prepared.

And I think this is what we are seeing some from Wilson. Is him adjusting from a relatively not a big powerful NCAA team to the NFL. And that jump in talent is huge. Especially with how bad BYUs defense was that he was seeing in practice each day. Now he's going against a top10 if not top 5 DL every day. And a young and talented secondary. I personally look at this as a good thing. Bc nearly every team we play isn't as good as us up front. So Wilson will feel like he has longer in actual games. The speed most teams have at LB isn't as good as ours. So LBs dropping back into coverage like ours do wont be as frequent. Which complicates things for Wilson. The only thing that will be harder for him come regular season is the CB play on other teams. BUT.... if you factor in that he should have more time to throw and our WRs actually being very talented and can win these battles. We will be ok. Does that means we will be a 10 win team? No I don't think so. But I do think we will see Wilson get better and better each week (generally). 

[xrade]

1 hour ago, Bobby816 said:

I think that's the thoughts by a lot. But that's with relatively no research (and that's understandable). Most just think there's so many good teams in the SEC, so surely there's great QBs. But that's not the case, as I mentioned. I've actually have had countless conversations over the years how teams like LSU surprisingly never have a great QB. And it's very weird. But it's true. These teams get good recruits, but rarely does is amount to a great NCAA career and being highly drafted. Just further proves that where you went to school has 0 to do with how good of a pro you will be.

BUT...........

If you do play at a top school like in the SEC. Regardless of position IMO you're way more NFL ready than someone who's not. That doesn't mean that a player from lets say LSU will be better than a guy from lets say UTEP. It just means that the guy from LSU is more prepared.

And I think this is what we are seeing some from Wilson. Is him adjusting from a relatively not a big powerful NCAA team to the NFL. And that jump in talent is huge. Especially with how bad BYUs defense was that he was seeing in practice each day. Now he's going against a top10 if not top 5 DL every day. And a young and talented secondary. I personally look at this as a good thing. Bc nearly every team we play isn't as good as us up front. So Wilson will feel like he has longer in actual games. The speed most teams have at LB isn't as good as ours. So LBs dropping back into coverage like ours do wont be as frequent. Which complicates things for Wilson. The only thing that will be harder for him come regular season is the CB play on other teams. BUT.... if you factor in that he should have more time to throw and our WRs actually being very talented and can win these battles. We will be ok. Does that means we will be a 10 win team? No I don't think so. But I do think we will see Wilson get better and better each week (generally). 

Good points.  I read some quotes ZW made to the media about TC.  He said he is trying things and making throws he would not do if it was a real game.  He does not want to just check down to make a safe completion he will test the D so he can learn.  A good example is the int by Mosely yesterday.  ZW said he wont make that throw again with that kind of LB look.  He also stated that some of the forced throws he is trying would be throw away's or check downs in real games.  Good to hear and makes sense.  Try things in practice and learn from that.

[Bobby816]

3 minutes ago, xrade said:

Good points.  I read some quotes ZW made to the media about TC.  He said he is trying things and making throws he would not do if it was a real game.  He does not want to just check down to make a safe completion he will test the D so he can learn.  A good example is the int by Mosely yesterday.  ZW said he wont make that throw again with that kind of LB look.  He also stated that some of the forced throws he is trying would be throw away's or check downs in real games.  Good to hear and makes sense.  Try things in practice and learn from that.

Yes he did say this. And that's a great way to learn. I loved him pointing that out. The adjustment to this is as I said no every team maybe a string as us in areas or better than us in areas. And that's where studying film helps.

As he used in his example...... Him maybe trying a throw and Mosley gets a hand on it. That's a great way to learn. But not every LB is Mosley. He's a top LB. So you play a team and its a guy not as fast as Mosley, you can maybe make that throw. So its taking what you learn from your team and applying it to who you're playing that week.

[JetsandI]

Damn Knapp.   I wonder who will replace his role for Wilson.   No way for me to entrust in Josh Johnson nor Rob Calabrese for that kind of role.

So far, Wilson looks like he is able to handle the offense by himself but it is just TC.  

[GangGreen420]

Sounds like Lawson is really getting Becton ready for the season 

It’s also gonna suck if Moore is out Saturday 

Edited August 12, 2021 by GangGreen420

[Bobby816]

Moore agitated his quad I believe today. Waiting to see how severe. 

[KingOfNewYork]

3 hours ago, GangGreen420 said:

Sounds like Lawson is really getting Becton ready for the season 

It’s also gonna suck if Moore is out Saturday 

He won’t play. No way they put him out there.

[KingOfNewYork]

6 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

Yes he did say this. And that's a great way to learn. I loved him pointing that out. The adjustment to this is as I said no every team maybe a string as us in areas or better than us in areas. And that's where studying film helps.

As he used in his example...... Him maybe trying a throw and Mosley gets a hand on it. That's a great way to learn. But not every LB is Mosley. He's a top LB. So you play a team and its a guy not as fast as Mosley, you can maybe make that throw. So its taking what you learn from your team and applying it to who you're playing that week.

This is actually a great point. Just because that throw didn’t work against Mosley, who’s good in coverage, doesn’t mean it won’t work against others. He’s gotta find the balance. 

[Dr.O]

Over/under 12 sacks this year for CLaw

[rickyt31]

36 minutes ago, Dr.O said:

Over/under 12 sacks this year for CLaw

I think he hits right at 12.