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Your favorite teams WORST starting depth chart of all time


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Usually we do a best starting depth chart/roster all time for teams but I want to see the worst.

Its simple. Make a starting depth chart with the worst regular starters all time. That means your worst QB, then your worst RB, etc.

The only catch: That player had to be a regular starter for a majority of one season (9+ games in a season). So for instance, Spergon Wynn wouldn't count because he Only started 2 games for Minnesota back in 2001.

Aaaaaaand go!

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I started watching the Chiefs full-time back in 2002, so I'm going to stick with players then forward. There's a few guys from the 70s or 80s that were bad enough for me to know how much they sucked, but unlike a best players list, I won't pretend to have gone out of my way to watch much of Todd Blackledge or Paul Palmer or Percy Snow. I'd be guessing based on stats, how quick we gave up on them, and a small amount of hearsay. So we'll stick to 2002 on.

I'm really sad the cut off is 9. I want so bad to put Orlando Scandrick on this list.

QB: Matt Cassel (2009)
RB: Thomas Jones (2010) Should be the corpse of Larry Johnson, but he only started 8 games that year. Also considered McCoy in 2019 for the fumbles and benching.
FB: Mike Cox (2009) Great name, terrible FB
WR: Sammie Parker (2004)
WR: Devard Darling (2008)
WR: Eddie Kennison (2007) To be clear, I loved Eddie Kennison. Underrated Chief from the early 2000s. But he played 2 more years than he should've.
TE: Leonard Pope (2009) A Todd Haley favorite. Lasted 3 years as starter, less than 500 yards total.
LT: Jordan Black (2006)
LG: Mike McGlynn (2014)
C : Ryan Lilja (2012) I feel like he was worse than Rudy Niswanger, but it's probably close.
RG: Adrian Jones (2008)
RT: Jah Reid (2015)

DE: Turk McBride (2008)
DT: Tank Tyler (2008)
DT: Ryan Sims (2004)
DE: Tanoh Kpassagnon (2020) No one appreciates just how bad he was. This will be my preferred soapbox topic until it is known.
OLB: Mike Vrabel (2009)
ILB: Pat Thomas (2008)
ILB: Josh Mauga (2015)
OLB: Frank Zombo (2017)
CB: William Bartee (2002)
FS: Shaunard Harts (2002)
SS: Jon McGraw (2011) Strongly contemplated putting him at SS and FS, on separate years. He was everything that people who hate Dan Sorensen claim that he is.
CB: Terrance Mitchell (2017)

K: Dave Rayner (2007)
P: Stephen Cheek (2004) Technically Dan Stryzinski had a worse statistical year in 2002, but I have nightmares about Cheek, I don't have those about Stryzinski. And he had an actual career.
KR: Quinten Lawrence/Dantrell Savage/Mark Bradley/Lance Long None of them technically made it 9 games at the spot, but when you suck that bad on special teams the team tends to try someone else until something works. It never worked. So throw the whole year's crew here.
PR: Dantrell Savage/Kevin Robinson (2008) See: KR. There were dark days before the Bears let Toub sneak away.

HC: Todd Haley (2011) Herm Edwards and Romeo Crennell both had worse seasons on paper than Haley at his worst. But Haley was a special level of destructive. I could see Edwards or Crennell finding success with a good enough GM. Todd Haley would destroy a good team if he had it.
OC: Bill Muir (2011) Very close between him and Brian Daboll, but Brian Daboll learned how to coach somewhere since 2012.
DC: Clancy Pendergast (2009) Could argue Gunther Cunningham or Greg Robinson, but once upon a time, they were good. They were both, the game passed them by, types.
ST: Mike Priefer (2006 - 2008) Colquitt was the only redeeming part of our special teams in the late 2000s, and I don't think that had anything to do with Priefer. Also just generally not a good dude.

 

Mildly interesting how this shook out. Decent number of guys made the list (and more were very close) who had good careers, but we really really loved veterans in the run of head coaches from Marty all the way up to Crennell. As a result, a ton of guys finished great careers with one or two seasons where they clearly shouldn't have been a starter anymore, but the team was clinging on to them for one reason or another. Some of these made the list, Jones, Kennison, Lilja, Vrabel, Zombo, but even more were close, with McCoy, Stryzinski, Dwayne Bowe, Larry Johnson, Casey Weigman, Trent Green, Ty Law, Pat Surtain, Sammy Knight, Dante Hall had one really crap year at the end as a punt returner, even Derrick Johnson had a pretty rough final year here. And then the host of vets where those coaches seemed more comfortable with a known subpar veteran than an unknown younger player. Jon McGraw, Mike McGlynn, Adrian Jones, Damion McIntosh, Devard Darling, Leonard Pope, all guys we kind of knew sucked, but opted in anyways. A willingness to move on from vets has been one of the nicer attributes of the recent regime.

Handful of players missed the games started cut by a hair. Larry Johnson's sad final year. A bunch of our other worst RBs were injury replacements, so Kolby Smith, Jackie Battle, and Peyton Hillis all came in under 9 games. A slew of CBs in Marcus Cooper, Phillip Gaines, Orlando Scandrick. Steve Maneri was one start away at TE, sadly. Jon Badlwin only ever started 7.

Couple positions had way too many guys to choose from. RT and S were sore spots especially.

It's refreshing, honestly, how few of these are recent. I really can't justify almost anyone from the past like 3 years. A few of the safeties in '18 are worth considering, but even Eric Murray and a physically decaying Ron Parker were better than a few from the truly dark ages.

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This sounds fun.  I'll give it a go.  

Packers:

The Packers are really old, so some of these things will have to be taken with eras involved. Of course, they had a couple of extra horrible stretches, so there will be some good (bad) players to choose from.  

QB:  I think this is a 3 man race.  John Hadl started 19 games from 1974-75, he had a record of 7-12 with 9TD:29INT.  Babe Parilli started 14 games from 52-53 and 57-58, he had a record of 3-11 with 31TD:61INT.  Randy Wright started 32 games from 1984-88, he had a record of 7-25 and 31TD:57INT.  I think I lean Randy Wright here, as he played in the most recent era, and Hadl and Parilli had successes in other parts of their careers.  

RB:  I am going to go with Brent Fullwood.  He started 30 games in 3 and a half seasons, and averaged 37 yards per game.  He somehow made the Pro Bowl in 1989 with 821 yards and 5 TDs.  He was also the 4th overall pick in 1987.  I might also think about Brandon Jackson.  He started 13 games for the 2010 Packers and averaged 3.7 ypc, I believe we set some kind of rushing futility record for 100 yards in a game during that time.

WR:  Through the early 2000s we kept Robert Ferguson around, and every year in camp, this was going to be the year.  It just never worked out for him.  His best season was 520 yards, 4TDs.  Jarrett Boykin started 8 games in 2013, he managed 681 yards and 3 TDs.  But the team was decimated by injuries and he got 83 targets simply by being healthy.

TE:  Martellus Bennett or Jimmy Graham.  They are both thieves and bums.  Martellus probably gets the nod because he quit on the team, at least Jimmy kept trying not to be a bum.

OL:  Tony Mandarich - Adrian Klemm - Jeff Saturday - Will Whiticker - whichever started more games between Alan Babre and Breno Giacominni

DE:  Jamaal Reynolds, Joe Johnson.  A draft bust and the mega FA spending to try to cover for the draft bust.

DT:  Cletidus Hunt.  I believe he was called a, "special kind of turd."  Jerrell Worthy.  He was not.

LB:  Honestly, pick one from the time Nick Barnett got injured until we drafted Blake Martinez.

CB:  Is there a worse corner than Ahmad Carroll? He was the 25th pick, and teams probably averaged 25 yards per target against him.  I can't think of another.  Usually we rotate our crappy corners and don't let them start that long when they suck.  Micah Hyde was probably kept at corner for too long by Dom Capers.

S:  Two guys off of the same mold, Aaron Rouse and Josh Jones.  If they didn't play enough, Kentrell Brice was given more than he could handle, and HaHa Clinton-Dix after he gave up was pretty bad.

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QB: Christian Ponder

RB: Matt Asiata

FB: Zach Line

WR: Troy Williamson

WR: Laquon Treadwell

WR: Travis Taylor

TE: Jermaine Wiggins

LT: TJ Clemmings

LG: Charlie Johnson

😄 Melvin Fowler

RG: Bernard Dafney

RT: Ryan Cook

DE: Stalin Colinet

DT: Remi Ayodele

DT: Jaleel Johnson

DE: Erasmus James 

OLB: 

MLB:

OLB:

CB:

CB:

S: Tyrell Johnson

S: 

K: 

P: Jeff Locke

 

Dang this is tough lol

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2 hours ago, SteelKing728 said:

 

 

Dang this is tough lol

Problem that I ran into was that there are a lot of guys that stunk out loud were replaced before they could do a ton of damage.  Or players that were before I was born.  Was there a worse player in the 70s? Probably, but I never saw that.

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my depth chart is for guys that’s played somewhat significant time on the team and not just necessarily a camp body. Starting from 2000 until now.
 

QB: JP Lossman
RB: Shaud Williams 
WR1: Kelvin Benjamin
WR2: James Hardy (RIP)
Slot: Roscoe Parrish 
TE: Ryan Neufeld
LT: Mike Williams 
LG: Colin Brown
Ce: Duke Preston
RG: Chad Rinehart 
RT: Langston Walker 

DE: Aaron Maybin
DT John McCargo 
DT: Torrell Troup 
DE: Erik Flowers 
LB: Keith Ellison
MLB: Kelvin Shepard 
LB: Arthur Moats 
CB: Justin Rogers
CB: Ashton Youboty 
Slot: Reggie Corner
S: John Corto 
S: KO Simpson 

HC: Greg Williams 
OC: Steve Fairchild
DC: Dave Wannstedt
ST: Danny Crossman

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2 hours ago, ThatJerkDave said:

Problem that I ran into was that there are a lot of guys that stunk out loud were replaced before they could do a ton of damage.  Or players that were before I was born.  Was there a worse player in the 70s? Probably, but I never saw that.

I unfortunately did.  We had a few good players sprinkled in there like Lynn Dickey, John Brockington, Willie Buchanon and the incomparable James Lofton but most of the time the rosters were dismal.  What is super sad is back then we were so bad we drafted high year after year and goofballs like Devine and Starr were in charge.  I love Bart Starr but he had no business being a GM back then.

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Coming for the belt Mean Gene.... (Browns)

QB: Charlie Frye 
RB: James Jackson

FB: Owen Marecic
WR1: Dwayne Bowe
WR2: Greg Little 
Slot: Corey Coleman 
TE: O.J. Santiago 
LT: Kevin Shaffer  
LG: Melvin Fowler
OC: Dave Wohlabaugh
RG: Floyd (Porkchop) Womack
RT: John St.Clair   

DE: Courtney Brown (injuries)
DT Gerard Warren 
DT: Trevon Coley
DE: Barkevius Mingo
LB: Chaun Thompson 
MLB: Kaluka Maiava 
LB: Chris Gocong  
CB: Justin Gilbert
CB: Brandon McDonald  
Slot: Buster Skrine 
S: Abe Elam 
S: Andrew Sendejo

HC: Hue Jackson 
OC: Maurice Carthon
DC: Jim O'Neil
 


 

Edited by MSURacerDT55
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14 hours ago, Jakuvious said:

DE: Tanoh Kpassagnon (2020) No one appreciates just how bad he was. This will be my preferred soapbox topic until it is known.


CB: Terrance Mitchell (2017)

I won't ever argue that Kpassagnon wasn't a disappointment. But you also have to consider that he was known to be a project when drafted. He played 43DE in college, got to KC and was asked to play out of position only to switch positions again his second year. He was a decent role player when Spags came in and he played his more natural 43DE.

I think MItchell had a decent enough run of games where I can't justify listing him over Phillip Gaines.

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54 minutes ago, kingseanjohn said:

I won't ever argue that Kpassagnon wasn't a disappointment. But you also have to consider that he was known to be a project when drafted. He played 43DE in college, got to KC and was asked to play out of position only to switch positions again his second year. He was a decent role player when Spags came in and he played his more natural 43DE.

I think MItchell had a decent enough run of games where I can't justify listing him over Phillip Gaines.

I mean, I'm just going with who played worst as a starter in a given season. I don't really care why they did. Fact is, he sucked worse than any starting DE I could find in the last 18 years. He had as many TDs allowed in coverage as he did sacks. He had twice as many missed tackles as total pressures. If we want to blame coaching changes and positional changes that's fine, but he was still that bad last year. Maybe Cassel wouldn't have sucked if he had played under Reid instead of Haley. Maybe Bartee is a passable CB if coached by Emmitt Thomas or Al Harris or Spags. Ryan Lilja should've probably never been put at C. Maybe Sammie Parker could've flourished with Mahomes throwing him the ball. End the end, it is what it is.

For what it's worth, DE was a stronger position over that 20 years for us. Going backwards through other candidates, despite the question of value per dollar, Clark is definitely better. Okafor/Tanoh were both better in '19 than Tanoh was in '20. Then we go back to the 3-4 run with Bailey/Jones. Jaye Howard, Mike DeVito, Shaun Smith, Tyson Jackson, and Glenn Dorsey were all limited players, but they were solid for the scheme we were running at the time. Maybe Dorsey/Jackson were bad enough as rookies or something? Turk McBride is already on there. Otherwise, you get back to the 4-3 again with Hali and Allen. And then the vets under Vemeil, Hicks, Holliday, and Clemons were all just decent. None were bad, just so-so vets. Only guy I see worth considering would be Ropati Pitoitua in 2012. But I swear I remember coming out of that season really high on him. I was wrong, in the end, but I definitely remember being disappointed that Tennessee grabbed him.

I addressed Gaines. He never actually started more than 5 games for us. He'd be a shoo in for the roster otherwise. There's a bunch of corners that were worse than Mitchell, just none that started over half a season. Phillip Gaines, Marcus Cooper, Stanford Routt, Orlando Scandrick were all clearly worse than Mitchell, but missed the threshold. There's a bunch of years where you can see the team actively trying to figure out the CB position, just from the change in snap count and starters throughout the season. I considered some of the vets we churned through in the 2000s. We kind of played Warfield, McLeon, Law, and Surtain all until they just couldn't go anymore. But I couldn't remember if any of them ever wound up quite that bad in their declines. I really probably should've put Mike Brown at SS for that reason. Maybe Javier Arenas? He and Routt shared 2012, as a buffer between Carr and Sean Smith. But I don't remember Arenas being bad, just really mediocre.

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QB: Heath Shuler/Rex Grossman/Dwayne Haskins (bending a little bit as these guys have 9+ starts over 2 seasons).
RB: Samaje Perine/Ryan Torain/Trung Candidate
WR: Brandon Lloyd / James Thrash
WR: Devin Thomas / David Patten
WR: Desmond Howard / Malcolm Kelley
TE: Zeron Flemister / Walter Rasby / Robert Royal
T: Brad Badger / Todd Wade
G: David Loverne / Maurice Hurt
C : Larry Moore
G: Wilbert Brown / Jason Fabini
T: Shar Pourdanesh / Ray Brown

-----

DE: Kelvin Kinney / Jarvis Jenkins
DT: Lional Dalton / Albert Haynesworth
DT: Doug Brown / Joe Salave'a
DE: Renaldo Wynn / Sterling Palmer
OLB: HB Blades
MLB: Kevin Mitchell / Jon Bostic
OLB: Warrick Holdman
S: Adam Archuleta / Matt Bowen
S: Darryl Morrison / David Terrell
CB: Walt Harris
CB: Kenny Wright 

K: Ali Haji-Sheikh
P: Derrick Frost

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just going from the time i actually watched games (like 1990 or so)

and from memory as to not cheat, so there may be recency bias and SPs

QB:  Don Majkowski (only regular starter besides Brett and Aaron)
RB: keith woodside
WR1: Devin Funchess
WR2: Perry Kemp
TE: Marcellus Bennett
LT: Tony Mandwhich
(cant remember any other linemen)

DE:  dean lowry
NT: Letroy Guion
DE: joe johnson
LB: erik Walden
LB: Hardy Nickerson (ugh what a shell)

LB: Paris Lenon
LB: brady poppinga


CB: Ahmed Carroll
CB: damarious randall
S: Aaron Rouse
S: Charlie Peprah

P: BJ Sander

HC: Lindy Infante

 

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On 7/19/2021 at 12:07 AM, ThatJerkDave said:

QB:Randy Wright started 32 games from 1984-88, he had a record of 7-25 and 31TD:57INT.  I think I lean Randy Wright here, as he played in the most recent era, and Hadl and Parilli had successes in other parts of their careers.  

RB:  I am going to go with Brent Fullwood.  He started 30 games in 3 and a half seasons, and averaged 37 yards per game.  He somehow made the Pro Bowl in 1989 with 821 yards and 5 TDs.  He was also the 4th overall pick in 1987. 

CB:  Is there a worse corner than Ahmad Carroll? He was the 25th pick, and teams probably averaged 25 yards per target against him.  I can't think of another.  Usually we rotate our crappy corners and don't let them start that long when they suck.  Micah Hyde was probably kept at corner for too long by Dom Capers.

 

Man, was Wright godawful. 

The thing with Fullwood is he had talent - that '89 Pro Bowl was probably due to him starting off that season like gangbusters. Of course, when he imploded in 1990, the team had to turn to Michael Haddix who in 12 starts, contributed 311 yds rushing (that's also not going too in depth because he played in all 16 games) at 3.2 per carry. I remember watching GB play the Raiders and he started out with something like 10 carries for 50 yds and I was thinking "ground and pound this week!" and then he remembered who he was and finished with a dispiriting 20-69 line. 

 

Carroll was much like Fullwood - all the ability with a 10 cent head. I may be misremembering but the thing that always stuck out to me about Carroll were the PIs. For no reason! The ball would be thrown, Carroll would have decent position, and instead of making a play on the ball or sticking close for an immediate tackle, he'd blatantly grab a fistful of jersey or an arm or something. It was maddening. 

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13 hours ago, Malfatron said:

just going from the time i actually watched games (like 1990 or so)

and from memory as to not cheat, so there may be recency bias and SPs

QB:  Don Majkowski (only regular starter besides Brett and Aaron)
DE:  dean lowry
NT: Letroy Guion
LB: brady poppinga

 

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