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Packers Training Camp 2021 Thread


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15 hours ago, hitnhope said:

Over the last decade the number of SB wins = 0

Not sure we are "one of the most successful franchises in the NFL"

Granted we have been good.   But never quite good enough.    Would you rather win 10-13 games a year and never win the SB, or be more up and down with a SB win or two?   Have these been good years, or have we really only been the best loser?

We understand how to stay "good", but we certainly haven't found a way to have ultimate success.   How a person answers the above questions may reflect how they feel about the current situation.

This is a great point.

I'm old enough to remember the 70's - 80's, and trust me, winning 10-13 games a year and not quite getting there is much better than winning 6-7 games a years and having no chance of getting there.

But if you are of a younger age and have known nothing but winning, not getting to the Super Bowl seems like failure.

Not going down the 'you youngsters don't remember the bad old days', I'm just thinking about the idea you have thrown out.

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1 hour ago, GalenaPackFan said:

This is a great point.

I'm old enough to remember the 70's - 80's, and trust me, winning 10-13 games a year and not quite getting there is much better than winning 6-7 games a years and having no chance of getting there.

But if you are of a younger age and have known nothing but winning, not getting to the Super Bowl seems like failure.

Not going down the 'you youngsters don't remember the bad old days', I'm just thinking about the idea you have thrown out.

The thing about the "all-in" discourse is that it's always assumed that by pushing your chips in, you automatically win the big one, when that's just not true. Nothing is guaranteed. I've seen more than one prominent packers blogger on twitter say about our tenuous cap situation: "well, I'll take the championship and not care about the fallout next year" - okay, that's great...still gotta win that championship. I'm old enough to remember "the dream team" Eagles. I'm old enough to remember that the Harbaugh Niners were going to be a menace for a decade. The LoB Seahawks were supposed to be more than a fart in the wind. Nothing is guaranteed in this league. 

There were a few years where our team overachieved based on the arm of Rodgers, to be sure. But for the most part this team has been built to be a contender that just hasn't quite made it there. It should have gone all the way in 2011, 2014, and 2020. They were the better team every one of those times and lost. They weren't without weaknesses, but no roster can be perfect. The fact is that they shot themselves in the foot when it mattered most. 

You can't assume that by going "all-in" you're guaranteed any better than what you got. We're about to see if that's true this coming year, because we're just about as cash strapped as you can be. 

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It’s definitely NOT guaranteed by any means, any rando injury at the wrong time can derail this thing. It sucks that the 2 seed plays an extra game nowadays, because any strange thing can happen (some Bears like lucky team has a soft schedule and goes 15-2 or something knocking us back to 2 seed).  

But, I would say we are better off than those teams that just went on FA spending sprees. We have 90% of a team that went to the NFCC game last year with a lot of ascending talent.  Usually those assembled teams have 5 different old prima donnas coming in and don’t always mesh well. We’ve got just 1 old prima donna and everyone is used to him by now.  I would say anything less than 14-3 would be a huge disappointment, and then we have a great shot for sure. 

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5 minutes ago, mikebpackfan said:

It’s definitely NOT guaranteed by any means, any rando injury at the wrong time can derail this thing.

Correct. Case in point(s): Our (and KC's) OLs

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1 hour ago, GalenaPackFan said:

This is a great point.

I'm old enough to remember the 70's - 80's, and trust me, winning 10-13 games a year and not quite getting there is much better than winning 6-7 games a years and having no chance of getting there.

But if you are of a younger age and have known nothing but winning, not getting to the Super Bowl seems like failure.

Not going down the 'you youngsters don't remember the bad old days', I'm just thinking about the idea you have thrown out.

I lived though the disappointment of every season from 1968 when Bengtson took over until Wolf came to town in 1992 with no realistic chance to win a Super Bowl. Never having hope is a dark place as a fan compared to annually being in the hunt. Yes, as some have pointed out already, the ball needs to bounds the right way for anyone to win a title, but that can't happen without being in the game. 

So if the polluted mindset of an entitled is starting to make sense to you, you may want to get up and take a long walk and get some fresh air. When you have come the conclusion that losing more and winning less is truly a stupid idea, you will have gotten enough fresh air.  

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Ryan Wood -  Matt LaFleur on Jaire Alexander's presser yesterday: "He was -- that was pretty special. Not sure what he was talking about, but I sure enjoyed the message."

LaFleur, unfortunately, was unable to shed more light on what Jaire Alexander meant by watching an ant climb up a cold mountain: "I wish I could give you guys some insight on that. But I was definitely feeling what he was saying."

:)

 

Edited by Leader
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Matt Schneidman -  Packers DNPs

TE Dom Dafney: knee
RB Patrick Taylor: groin
DL Kingsley Keke: ankle
CB Kevin King: hammy
ILB Isaiah McDuffie: hammy
S Will Redmond: foot
OLB Za’Darius Smith: back
OL Simon Stepaniak: personal

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15 minutes ago, Leader said:

Matt Schneidman -  Packers DNPs

TE Dom Dafney: knee
RB Patrick Taylor: groin
DL Kingsley Keke: ankle
CB Kevin King: hammy
ILB Isaiah McDuffie: hammy
S Will Redmond: foot
OLB Za’Darius Smith: back
OL Simon Stepaniak: personal

PUP this year

Bahktiari, Deguara, Dafney, Taylor.

it will be interesting to see what they do with these guys. I’m assuming 69 is on the opening 53 unless they really believe he can’t get back til mid season. Dafney and Taylor would be great to stash on the PUP while we work out depth at other positions. 

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15 minutes ago, Refugee said:

PUP this year

Bahktiari, Deguara, Dafney, Taylor.

it will be interesting to see what they do with these guys. I’m assuming 69 is on the opening 53 unless they really believe he can’t get back til mid season. Dafney and Taylor would be great to stash on the PUP while we work out depth at other positions. 

Except Sternberger is suspended for the first few games. They may need both Deguara and Dafney from the start. 

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2 minutes ago, Old Guy said:

Except Sternberger is suspended for the first few games. They may need both Deguara and Dafney from the start. 

I had forgotten  about that.  Deguara, if healthy will be there. Same for Big Dog and Tonyan. I think Dafney and maybe Taylor are guys on the fringe they might want to keep but will struggle to make the 53 with other positions (OL, WR) taking a good number of spots. Sternberger being out will help at least one of those fringe guys.  We’ll see how loose they will play with the PUP.

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2 hours ago, Isherwood said:

The thing about the "all-in" discourse is that it's always assumed that by pushing your chips in, you automatically win the big one, when that's just not true.

yep. here are the stats for playoff teams, 2005 thru 2020. & the odds of a particular reg-season win rate resulting in a particular playoff outcome. 

14W+ teams: 10 total, 1 W SB (10%), 4 L SB (40.0%), 0 L ConfCh (0.0%), 5 L Div (50.0%), 0 L WC (0.0%)

13W teams: 31 total, 3 W SB (9.7%), 8 L SB (25.8%), 9 L ConfCh (29.0%), 10 L Div (32.3%), 1 L WC (3.2%)

12W teams: 35 total, 5 W SB (14.3%), 2 L SB (5.7%), 9 L ConfCh (25.7%), 10 L Div (28.6%), 9 L WC (25.7%)

11W teams: 45 total, 3 W SB (6.7%), 2 L SB (4.4%), 7 L ConfCh (15.6%), 12 L Div (26.7%), 21 L WC (46.7%)

10W teams: 44 total, 3 W SB (6.8%), 0 L SB (0%), 3 L ConfCh (6.8%), 17 L Div (38.6%), 21 L WC (47.7%)

9W teams: 21 total, 1 W SB (4.8%), 1 L SB (4.8%), 3 L ConfCh (14.3%), 6 L Div (28.6%), 10 L WC (47.6%)

7-8W teams: 8 total, 0 W SB (0.0%), 0 L SB (0%), 0 L ConfCh (0%), 4 L Div (50.0%), 4 L WC (50.0%)

so it is literally more likely to win at least 1 SB if given 2 chances with a 10-win team than with 1 chance on a 12+ win team. 13.1% odds vs. 11.8% odds. having more bites at the apple should not be discounted as a strategy for winning SB's. 

I'm also quite sure that the "all-in" crowd would be the first to trot out the "what have you done for me lately" line when complained during the down-years of a boom/bust team. 

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19 hours ago, squire12 said:

You mean a player/ agent might not reveal the truth

Season 1 Omg GIF by America's Got Talent

I want to actually beat you down

But for real, everyone always buys the "they never contacted me" **** and it's clearly BS

 

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On 7/30/2021 at 8:59 AM, vegas492 said:

You, me, everyone has spent an insane amount of time on this forum trying to figure Aaron out.  As well as this whole ordeal.  

It is a waste of time.  But I think the issue is with Ball more than Gute.  Gute gets control of Ball, or Murphy takes control of Ball and I think this gets better.

I mean, I'd love to have heard the conversation with Ball concerning Cobb.  

Gute:  " We are going to need you to trade for Randall Cobb."

Ball:  (Looks up from his newspaper, takes off his reading glasses) "No."  Puts glasses back on and goes back to reading his paper.

(Gute runs to Murphy's office, tells him what happened.)

Murphy enters the room:  "Russ, you need to make Cobb happen."

Ball: (Doesn't even look up) "I'll make the call."

 

Interesting thought... Kuhn credited Ball as the only reason he has a positive relationship with GB after getting let go.

And Kuhn is a Rodgers bestie.

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