Neglected Losing Roster Realities: 13 of 22 Starters Are 1st/2nd Yr Players

[Mind Character]

Sometimes I feel like we don't really look at what our roster really is and its composition and how that translates to wins/losses.

6 out of 11 players on Offense are in their first or second year (with Joe Thomas' injury, 7/11 players are 1st or 2nd year)

7 out of 11 players on defense are in their first or second year

If we include special teams; 1 of our starters is a rookie; the other a veteran so that makes 14/24 starting players are 1st/2nd year players.

MORE IMPORTANTLY, this inexperience is at critical positions for offensive power/scoring (QB, WR....) and defense positions that are important for stopping the opposing teams' QB (MLB, Both Safety's,and pass rushers)

This is not a recipe for winning especially if not all those inexperienced starters are blue chip 1st or 2nd rounders...Many are late rounders

But that's not all....When it comes to factoring in our 2 deep or rotational players, due to the complete roster tear down almost all of them are rookies or 2nd year players.

Literally at every position except for RB the 2-deep player is a rookie/2nd year player or even a undrafted free agent!

This is what the coaches are working with week in and week out. Not only trying to get these guys to be professionals, but to accelerate their acclimation to the pro games and what it takes to win.

The veteran presence on the team is on the offensive line, but as we know well a talented offensive line only can do so much.

The truth is on every team, every Sunday...coaches make bad calls (time management, down and distance management issues) but it's only really known by that teams' fan base or hardcore fans that follow multiple teams. Every week coaching decisions are the talk of sports radio.

Some of the best coaches often make really bad decisions repeatedly and are known for their in game flubs (Andy Reid, Bruce Arians, Jason Garrett, Jay Gruden, Mike Zimmer, and so on and so on); however, player experience and savvy is able to mask such issues by ending in a winning result.

Due to global roster inexperience nothing is masked (players going out for a late night drink, bad coaching fourth down calls, bad defensive calls,etc)...everything is out in the open when a team is in a spiral of losing.

Such is our experience, but I just wish our fanbase would go into the season with a clear eyed view of what we're really working with. It's as if most people thought we were going to win this year.

Like when it came to the Colts, Bengals, Texans, Jets games...everyone was so disappointed when we lost even though each of those teams is more experienced AND has bonafide pro bowl top tier players somewhere on their roster giving them a decisive advantage all of which we do not have.

The predicament our team is in was predictable.

[hornbybrown]

Part of me feels sorry for Hue with this roster but then I’m no expert but I’m seeing him make calls that just are dumb!!!

[Iamcanadian]

Certainly, having a very young roster has its limitations, but it does not guarantee anything for the future unless those starters develop into better players by a wide margin. The opposite is also true, I can have a team loaded everywhere with veterans and still be a losing team. It all comes down to talent and at our skill positions, we just do not have a lot if any, real talent. Experience isn't going to change this and without a true franchise QB, no team is going to win a whole lot anyway and we do not have anything close to a franchise QB.
If we manage to draft our Goff or Wentz in the 2018 draft, we are still looking at 2 or even 3 years before we show marked improvement, it takes QB's time to develop if they have the talent and sometimes, g-d forbid, our QB pick flops, we could be looking at a decade to get back up to snuff.

For me, there can never be any excuse for going 1-31 or possibly 2-30 if we manage to win one. That can only happen through total mismanagement of a team and that is what we are seeing. Nobody on the other teams even cares about their game with us, they come here and expect to add a win to their win column. they play us with zero emotion while we are busting a gut to get at least one win. Players have pride and do not want to see the Brown's go 1-31 and be part of the worst team in NFL history, youth or not, they want at least one win or 2, so they will not have to face their friends and family and explain why they could not win a game.

It was predictable, because our GM was 100% committed to metrics, but lacked any talent in assessing prospect's potential and worse yet, thought he knew better than any GM in pro football, the best way to rebuild a franchise and find a franchise QB. So we are paying the price. Yes, metrics can be a solid aid in helping to find talent, but to rely on it 100% proved to be a disaster for us. You still need to be able to appraise and spot talent, something our FO failed at completely, so I have very little confidence  in our current roster and believe its youth will not grow with experience.

[Iamcanadian]

29 minutes ago, hornbybrown said:

Part of me feels sorry for Hue with this roster but then I’m no expert but I’m seeing him make calls that just are dumb!!!

We will never know if Hue could have been a solid HC or not, his GM never came close to giving him the talent so necessary to win in the NFL. So who can blame him if out of desperation , he tried some silly things in trying to win at least 1 game. He knows he will be the scapegoat for this mess and be fired, who knows when????

[Mind Character]

1 hour ago, hornbybrown said:

Part of me feels sorry for Hue with this roster but then I’m no expert but I’m seeing him make calls that just are dumb!!!

What everyone knows is that things are going bad and we're not winning.

It's also easy to get when a down and distance call is wrong or when a 4th down run never had a chance...but that's really it.

The fact that people think they can understand anything substantive about a defense, offense, or their respective playcalling/playcallers competence without watching the ALL22 and grasping pre and post snap alignments is really wild to me and always has been.

Coaches have to rewatch the tape over and over play by play for understanding for a reason.

Some go/Most go it's all on HUE or Gregg Williams...few even take the time or have the time to watch the ALL22 to see the full context of WR routes, defensive  scheme, where the QB looks first in his progression, what should be the progression based on the defense, was the play checked into/audible into, did the play have a chance based on presnap alignment, did the play have a chance post snap,....

There just aren't good sports analysis sites out there especially on the Browns leaving people that mostly never played football at a high level and/or had longstanding expertise/experience with the game to try to Tony Grossi a reason for the Browns incompetence

Beyond bad 4th down calls, and the declining of penalty last week (of which he accepted 4th down and short when the titans have always kicked a field goal in such situations before)...Hue hasn't done anything that horribly

Where does inexperience/poor player play begin coach bad play calling begin.

If seen the BrownsReddit and Browns fans site suggestion they've done "analysis" and Hue's only calling vertical routes, doesn't call enough check downs, and most laughably doesn't have routes or plays over the middle...

Some have diagrams and charts, but almost all of them I've seen don't know the basic of offensive play charting, don't take into the down and distance, and most importantly can't understand what the QB progression should be based on the presnap look.

I've charted 5 games this year (admittedly I missed 2 games but watched key highlights), and Hue's been calling some good games, but often WR route issues, drops, or QB play not seeing the play quickly sabotages the success of the play.

Hue has of course made some bad play calls and HC decisons, but that is the case with most coaches but it gets masked by a big play or an overall win.

Where does roster incompetence end and coaching incompetence begin...

 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

Fans thinking Hue is an idiot is no different than every other coach we've had. Fans of other teams do the same.

Fact is a roster with but a couple players from the 2010-2015 drafts, which should be the years providing a large percentage of our starters, has has more to do with our losses than a bad play call.

We are paying the price for constant change and "rebuilding" since, at a minimum, Romeo was canned.

Time and patience are the best fix, but I don't know that Browns fans, or ownership, is capable of that.

[NateDawg]

It’s a mess of a roster set-up. Lots of blame to go around. You need some vets to help the young kids along and mold them into pros at their position groups. Hue has been inept, but so has the roster structure. I understand patience and building for the future, but I’m not even sure that the youth we have/will have can so that. It’s like the 76ers in the NBA minus the intentional tanking. You can’t just put young guys out there, even with a couple really talented guys, and expect them to learn how to win together.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

8 minutes ago, NateDawg said:

It’s a mess of a roster set-up. Lots of blame to go around. You need some vets to help the young kids along and mold them into pros at their position groups. Hue has been inept, but so has the roster structure. I understand patience and building for the future, but I’m not even sure that the youth we have/will have can so that. It’s like the 76ers in the NBA minus the intentional tanking. You can’t just put young guys out there, even with a couple really talented guys, and expect them to learn how to win together.

Short of qb there have been vets in every position group, and even then guys like Hogan and Kessler had a year being mentored by a vet.

It's not quite as bad as you're describing.

[NateDawg]

7 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Short of qb there have been vets in every position group, and even then guys like Hogan and Kessler had a year being mentored by a vet.

It's not quite as bad as you're describing.

Offensively specifically it’s kind of ugly. Well, I guess I’m specifically looking at QB/WR. They have two 2nd year guys and a rookie QB, which is the most important position obviously. Not sure why you have both a Hogan and a Kessler. Not sure what one of those guys brings that the other doesn’t. A vet in that group would make sense. At WR, Britt hardly counts in my mind. With Louis, Higgins, Coleman, Triggs, etc., you have a group of guys that are young but only Coleman gets PT arguably on a team with real WRs. Not sure Britt really even contributes in that WR room, which is obviously not how it was drawn up. 

I don’t have as many gripes on defense. Linebacker is fine. Definitely some youth up front on defense, but there’s some talent there. I guess my biggest gripes are on offense. I never liked the move to cut McCown and you can argue that there isn’t a wide receiver that has a long-term future here, outside of possibly Coleman. Even that is a question mark. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

44 minutes ago, NateDawg said:

Offensively specifically it’s kind of ugly. Well, I guess I’m specifically looking at QB/WR. They have two 2nd year guys and a rookie QB, which is the most important position obviously. Not sure why you have both a Hogan and a Kessler. Not sure what one of those guys brings that the other doesn’t. A vet in that group would make sense. At WR, Britt hardly counts in my mind. With Louis, Higgins, Coleman, Triggs, etc., you have a group of guys that are young but only Coleman gets PT arguably on a team with real WRs. Not sure Britt really even contributes in that WR room, which is obviously not how it was drawn up. 

I don’t have as many gripes on defense. Linebacker is fine. Definitely some youth up front on defense, but there’s some talent there. I guess my biggest gripes are on offense. I never liked the move to cut McCown and you can argue that there isn’t a wide receiver that has a long-term future here, outside of possibly Coleman. Even that is a question mark. 

WR is a mess, no doubt, but that can be fixed this offseason.

They can't undo a decade of ineptitude in 2 offseason no matter how many picks they have.

[MSURacerDT55]

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Fans thinking Hue is an idiot is no different than every other coach we've had. Fans of other teams do the same.

Fact is a roster with but a couple players from the 2010-2015 drafts, which should be the years providing a large percentage of our starters, has has more to do with our losses than a bad play call.

We are paying the price for constant change and "rebuilding" since, at a minimum, Romeo was canned.

Time and patience are the best fix, but I don't know that Browns fans, or ownership, is capable of that.

Unfortunately the fans who aren't aware of this and the media will run him out of town.

[ditchdigger]

24 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

Unfortunately the fans who aren't aware of this and the media will run him out of town.

Him and his 1-31 record?

Yeah, blame it on the fans and the media and the previous regimes.

Mike Pettine was an underqualified caveman of a HS coach who had a new GM and all the same problems MC and LGB laid out, and till managed to win 7 games his first year.

Nothing they said was false. Nothing they said excuses starting 0-7 again this year, with no hope of changing that 0 to a 1 like they did in Week 17 last year.

Hue is a missed FG away from being 0-23. With an offense he has had more than enough time to install and mold to the young players he knew he'd have to work with.

At what point does the accountability begin? 1-38? 1-45?

When is it OK to look at this coach and decide if he is the right guy to develop these young players?

For me, it's already decided and this is a thread full of excuses. But I'm told that I have to watch at least 16 or more games of ineptitude to decide if it's really ineptitude or not. 

No development on offense. No discipline on penalties. No intelligence in game management. 

You guys are asking for patience for a guy who said he was going to "ride with DeShone no matter what", then pulled him twice from a game we were only trailing by 3, and benched him for a guy who got blown out by 20+.

I don't get it. You guys are nuts if you think this guy is going to get better with more time. I don't see how a functionally intelligent person such as yourselves cannot see that he is terrible and getting worse the longer this goes on.

Young rosters are hard to win with, but this is a historically bad coach. Chris Palmer had more success with an expansion team. Drop the excuses and examine the job he is doing, rather than looking for reasons it is not his fault.

[MSURacerDT55]

5 minutes ago, ditchdigger said:

Him and his 1-31 record?

Yeah, blame it on the fans and the media and the previous regimes.

Mike Pettine was an underqualified caveman of a HS coach who had a new GM and all the same problems MC and LGB laid out, and till managed to win 7 games his first year.

Nothing they said was false. Nothing they said excuses starting 0-7 again this year, with no hope of changing that 0 to a 1 like they did in Week 17 last year.

Hue is a missed FG away from being 0-23. With an offense he has had more than enough time to install and mold to the young players he knew he'd have to work with.

At what point does the accountability begin? 1-38? 1-45?

When is it OK to look at this coach and decide if he is the right guy to develop these young players?

For me, it's already decided and this is a thread full of excuses. But I'm told that I have to watch at least 16 or more games of ineptitude to decide if it's really ineptitude or not. 

No development on offense. No discipline on penalties. No intelligence in game management. 

You guys are asking for patience for a guy who said he was going to "ride with DeShone no matter what", then pulled him twice from a game we were only trailing by 3, and benched him for a guy who got blown out by 20+.

I don't get it. You guys are nuts if you think this guy is going to get better with more time. I don't see how a functionally intelligent person such as yourselves cannot see that he is terrible and getting worse the longer this goes on.

Young rosters are hard to win with, but this is a historically bad coach. Chris Palmer had more success with an expansion team. Drop the excuses and examine the job he is doing, rather than looking for reasons it is not his fault.

Of course he is 1-22, have you seen that roster? Name one coach that can win in these current conditions?

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

10 minutes ago, ditchdigger said:

Him and his 1-31 record?

Yeah, blame it on the fans and the media and the previous regimes.

Mike Pettine was an underqualified caveman of a HS coach who had a new GM and all the same problems MC and LGB laid out, and till managed to win 7 games his first year.

Nothing they said was false. Nothing they said excuses starting 0-7 again this year, with no hope of changing that 0 to a 1 like they did in Week 17 last year.

Hue is a missed FG away from being 0-23. With an offense he has had more than enough time to install and mold to the young players he knew he'd have to work with.

At what point does the accountability begin? 1-38? 1-45?

When is it OK to look at this coach and decide if he is the right guy to develop these young players?

For me, it's already decided and this is a thread full of excuses. But I'm told that I have to watch at least 16 or more games of ineptitude to decide if it's really ineptitude or not. 

No development on offense. No discipline on penalties. No intelligence in game management. 

You guys are asking for patience for a guy who said he was going to "ride with DeShone no matter what", then pulled him twice from a game we were only trailing by 3, and benched him for a guy who got blown out by 20+.

I don't get it. You guys are nuts if you think this guy is going to get better with more time. I don't see how a functionally intelligent person such as yourselves cannot see that he is terrible and getting worse the longer this goes on.

Young rosters are hard to win with, but this is a historically bad coach. Chris Palmer had more success with an expansion team. Drop the excuses and examine the job he is doing, rather than looking for reasons it is not his fault.

Pettine? He won 3 games and had the highest paid defense in the league and one of the older teams in the league as well.

Hue has the youngest and cheapest roster in the league.

[Rod Johnson]

I look forward to our youthful roster taking that next step to 2-14 #progress #trusttheprocess #defendsashi