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1 minute ago, NateDawg said:

Let’s kick that one over to someone around here with some pull with webster. 

@NudeTayne

I got you ingrates more likes. My pull with Webman, the ruler of this world, may be at its limit. My powers of moderation are diminished here in the FF plane, so as to allow free will in posting. 

Let us be clear, though: the day nears where I walk in this forum in the flesh.  I cometh. Woe to all moderators before me.

*moves post to Jack Easterby Texans thread*

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Just sent Kiwi a monstrosity. If you'd like a monstrosity as well, let me know and I'll copypasta. As cool as it would be to discuss the downfall of civilization (in this thread 😁), it should probably mostly be done in PM.

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Let me preface this by saying that I support bruceb’s right have any view on politics in sport or any matter that he wants.  As a person who prefers to read the forum rather than contribute, I appreciate bruceb and all the regular posters.  However, as one the older members of the forum I must point out that not everyone who remembers the 1968 Mexico City Olympics’ black gloved raised fist protest of Tommy Smith and John Carlos viewed it as a negative. We all have individual life and family experiences that color our reactions to everything, especially symbolic political speech.  I would hope that we all can respect our differences and remember that we are all passionate Browns fans.

As much as I appreciate:

“The goal of the Olympic Movement is to contribute to building a peaceful and better world by educating youth through sport practiced without discrimination of any kind and in the Olympic spirit which requires mutual understanding with a spirit of friendship, solidarity and fair play.”

The modern olympics have been political from the beginning.   From the IOC stripping Jim Thorpe of the medals he won in 1912 because he played two seasons of semi-pro baseball prior to the Olympics (They later gave them back 30 years after he died) in an enforcement of its amateurism rules, to the infamous 1936 Olympic games hosted by Nazi Germany which was, for the Nazi party, a showcase for Nazism and “proof” of their racial theories and the superiority of the “Aryan” race.

Hitler and the Nazi party banned all German Jewish athletes from participation in the 1936 games.  In response American Jewish athletes discussed whether they should boycott the olympics.  Ultimately they decided to participate rather than boycott.  However, in a shameful attempt to please the Nazi hosts of the Olympics, US Olympic Committee chairman Avery Brundage replaced Marty Glickman and Sam Stoller both Jewish Americans on the 4x100 team with Jessie Owens and Ralph Metcalfe after Glickman and Stoller had travelled to the games fully expecting to compete.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1746428-marty-glickman-jesse-owens-and-a-forgotten-story-of-the-1936-berlin-olympics

Jessie Owens became a celebrated hero.  African Americans continued to compete for this country, however discrimination against African Americans and other minority groups was not only tolerated, it was legal and in many cases, such as in housing, where racial discrimination was required by federal law.  My grandfather was restricted in where he could build his house in Cedarville, Ohio because of legal zoning segregation.  My uncle served in the air force.  When my grandparents went to visit him while he was serving this nation, my grandmother was told she could not buy the post card she wanted because she was black. Your son can die for this country, but any random white person can stop you from buying a post card. Every black person in America could suffer these daily indignities at any time.

In 1968, many African American athletes wanted to boycott the Olympics because of treatment that they regularly received within their own country.  Most decided against doing a boycott much the same as the Jewish Athletes in 1936.  Kareem Abdul Jabbar did boycott the 1968 Olympics. The raised fist protest was a compromise position.

I was 4 in 1968 so I don’t remember the games, but I do remember the fallout, I also remember the pictures of the podium with Tommy Smith and John Carlos. That image was and is a point of pride to me. Smith and Carlos made, in my view, an important political statement that was a small but important part in paving the way to the change that was so desperately needed, but had been so slow in coming.

I encourage anyone to listen to an interview with John Carlos.  Whether you agree with him or disagree, I think you will be struck by how many times he refers to the United States as this “Great Country.”  One can be critical and still have respect and pride in one’s country.

https://www.ttbook.org/interview/john-carlos-raised-fist-1968-olympics

Finally, I will say that the raised fist was one of the most successful non-violent protests ever done.  I am 57 and did not see it, but remember it like I had, and bruceb who did see it, disagreed with it, remembers it more that 50 years later and brings it up out of the blue.   Sorry for the long essay.  I prefer to read them rather than write them.  Mind Character where are you?

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23 hours ago, mrpazzo said:

Let me preface this by saying that I support bruceb’s right have any view on politics in sport or any matter that he wants.  As a person who prefers to read the forum rather than contribute, I appreciate bruceb and all the regular posters.  However, as one the older members of the forum I must point out that not everyone who remembers the 1968 Mexico City Olympics’ black gloved raised fist protest of Tommy Smith and John Carlos viewed it as a negative. We all have individual life and family experiences that color our reactions to everything, especially symbolic political speech.  I would hope that we all can respect our differences and remember that we are all passionate Browns fans.

As much as I appreciate:

“The goal of the Olympic Movement is to contribute to building a peaceful and better world by educating youth through sport practiced without discrimination of any kind and in the Olympic spirit which requires mutual understanding with a spirit of friendship, solidarity and fair play.”

The modern olympics have been political from the beginning.   From the IOC stripping Jim Thorpe of the medals he won in 1912 because he played two seasons of semi-pro baseball prior to the Olympics (They later gave them back 30 years after he died) in an enforcement of its amateurism rules, to the infamous 1936 Olympic games hosted by Nazi Germany which was, for the Nazi party, a showcase for Nazism and “proof” of their racial theories and the superiority of the “Aryan” race.

Hitler and the Nazi party banned all German Jewish athletes from participation in the 1936 games.  In response American Jewish athletes discussed whether they should boycott the olympics.  Ultimately they decided to participate rather than boycott.  However, in a shameful attempt to please the Nazi hosts of the Olympics, US Olympic Committee chairman Avery Brundage replaced Marty Glickman and Sam Stoller both Jewish Americans on the 4x100 team with Jessie Owens and Ralph Metcalfe after Glickman and Stoller had travelled to the games fully expecting to compete.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1746428-marty-glickman-jesse-owens-and-a-forgotten-story-of-the-1936-berlin-olympics

Jessie Owens became a celebrated hero.  African Americans continued to compete for this country, however discrimination against African Americans and other minority groups was not only tolerated, it was legal and in many cases, such as in housing, where racial discrimination was required by federal law.  My grandfather was restricted in where he could build his house in Cedarville, Ohio because of legal zoning segregation.  My uncle served in the air force.  When my grandparents went to visit him while he was serving this nation, my grandmother was told she could not buy the post card she wanted because she was black. Your son can die for this country, but any random white person can stop you from buying a post card. Every black person in America could suffer these daily indignities at any time.

In 1968, many African American athletes wanted to boycott the Olympics because of treatment that they regularly received within their own country.  Most decided against doing a boycott much the same as the Jewish Athletes in 1936.  Kareem Abdul Jabbar did boycott the 1968 Olympics. The raised fist protest was a compromise position.

I was 4 in 1968 so I don’t remember the games, but I do remember the fallout, I also remember the pictures of the podium with Tommy Smith and John Carlos. That image was and is a point of pride to me. Smith and Carlos made, in my view, an important political statement that was a small but important part in paving the way to the change that was so desperately needed, but had been so slow in coming.

I encourage anyone to listen to an interview with John Carlos.  Whether you agree with him or disagree, I think you will be struck by how many times he refers to the United States as this “Great Country.”  One can be critical and still have respect and pride in one’s country.

https://www.ttbook.org/interview/john-carlos-raised-fist-1968-olympics

Finally, I will say that the raised fist was one of the most successful non-violent protests ever done.  I am 57 and did not see it, but remember it like I had, and bruceb who did see it, disagreed with it, remembers it more that 50 years later and brings it up out of the blue.   Sorry for the long essay.  I prefer to read them rather than write them.  Mind Character where are you?

This is a great post. To add to the story that isn't that well known is Peter Norman who was on the podium and won the silver that day.

He wore a badge for equal rights and was set as an outcast in Australia for what he did. He got just as much backlash from his country as Smith and Carlos and wasn't recognized for his success in the Olympics. Defiantly not taking away from your point just adding to it since I think we have all seen that picture and never noticed the third guy on the podium. 

https://sports.yahoo.com/the-forgotten-man-peter-norman-the-third-man-atop-the-podium-with-tommie-smith-and-john-carlos-054359681.html

 

 

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On 7/30/2021 at 9:50 PM, NudeTayne said:

*moves post to Jack Easterby Texans thread*

*sends post right back to the Browns forum*

Not on my watch.

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On 8/8/2021 at 8:57 AM, mrpazzo said:

Let me preface this by saying that I support bruceb’s right have any view on politics in sport or any matter that he wants.  As a person who prefers to read the forum rather than contribute, I appreciate bruceb and all the regular posters.  However, as one the older members of the forum I must point out that not everyone who remembers the 1968 Mexico City Olympics’ black gloved raised fist protest of Tommy Smith and John Carlos viewed it as a negative. We all have individual life and family experiences that color our reactions to everything, especially symbolic political speech.  I would hope that we all can respect our differences and remember that we are all passionate Browns fans.

As much as I appreciate:

“The goal of the Olympic Movement is to contribute to building a peaceful and better world by educating youth through sport practiced without discrimination of any kind and in the Olympic spirit which requires mutual understanding with a spirit of friendship, solidarity and fair play.”

The modern olympics have been political from the beginning.   From the IOC stripping Jim Thorpe of the medals he won in 1912 because he played two seasons of semi-pro baseball prior to the Olympics (They later gave them back 30 years after he died) in an enforcement of its amateurism rules, to the infamous 1936 Olympic games hosted by Nazi Germany which was, for the Nazi party, a showcase for Nazism and “proof” of their racial theories and the superiority of the “Aryan” race.

Hitler and the Nazi party banned all German Jewish athletes from participation in the 1936 games.  In response American Jewish athletes discussed whether they should boycott the olympics.  Ultimately they decided to participate rather than boycott.  However, in a shameful attempt to please the Nazi hosts of the Olympics, US Olympic Committee chairman Avery Brundage replaced Marty Glickman and Sam Stoller both Jewish Americans on the 4x100 team with Jessie Owens and Ralph Metcalfe after Glickman and Stoller had travelled to the games fully expecting to compete.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1746428-marty-glickman-jesse-owens-and-a-forgotten-story-of-the-1936-berlin-olympics

Jessie Owens became a celebrated hero.  African Americans continued to compete for this country, however discrimination against African Americans and other minority groups was not only tolerated, it was legal and in many cases, such as in housing, where racial discrimination was required by federal law.  My grandfather was restricted in where he could build his house in Cedarville, Ohio because of legal zoning segregation.  My uncle served in the air force.  When my grandparents went to visit him while he was serving this nation, my grandmother was told she could not buy the post card she wanted because she was black. Your son can die for this country, but any random white person can stop you from buying a post card. Every black person in America could suffer these daily indignities at any time.

In 1968, many African American athletes wanted to boycott the Olympics because of treatment that they regularly received within their own country.  Most decided against doing a boycott much the same as the Jewish Athletes in 1936.  Kareem Abdul Jabbar did boycott the 1968 Olympics. The raised fist protest was a compromise position.

I was 4 in 1968 so I don’t remember the games, but I do remember the fallout, I also remember the pictures of the podium with Tommy Smith and John Carlos. That image was and is a point of pride to me. Smith and Carlos made, in my view, an important political statement that was a small but important part in paving the way to the change that was so desperately needed, but had been so slow in coming.

I encourage anyone to listen to an interview with John Carlos.  Whether you agree with him or disagree, I think you will be struck by how many times he refers to the United States as this “Great Country.”  One can be critical and still have respect and pride in one’s country.

https://www.ttbook.org/interview/john-carlos-raised-fist-1968-olympics

Finally, I will say that the raised fist was one of the most successful non-violent protests ever done.  I am 57 and did not see it, but remember it like I had, and bruceb who did see it, disagreed with it, remembers it more that 50 years later and brings it up out of the blue.   Sorry for the long essay.  I prefer to read them rather than write them.  Mind Character where are you?

I really appreciate everything that you wrote above. and I also agree with your opening comment. Here's what I will say about Bruce, and not just Bruce, anyone that shares his opinion on 1968. He has had more than fifty years to educate himself further on the how, what, and why behind it. He could have listened to what the men had to say about why. He hasn't though. and it wouldn't matter if he did, because it won't change his mind on what that one moment said to him. I don't know Bruce, I don't know how old he was in 1968, but I bet that he probably had plenty of influence around him that helped him to form that stance on Tommie Smith and John Carlos. We live in a nation that is still relatively young in its equality movements. we have had so many examples of non-peaceful protests, or at times peaceful protests that turn, whether it be George Floyd, or January 6th, or Kenosha, or the current events over mask mandates. But we draw the line when our athletes, or actors, or celebrities speak out. Lets not pretend that it's an issue just on the court, or the podium. LeBron James can send a tweet and be met with the same vile that he would be met with wearing a shirt on the court during pregame. We cheer and get excited on Sundays when the jets do their fly by's during pregame before the anthem, so when its a political belief that we believe in, its fine, but when it's something we don't, its a problem. Dabo threatening to quit coaching if players got paid, but then programs like BYU absolutely crushing it by bringing in energy to the team when a company decided to give every walk on enough money to pay for their scholarships. On top of this, even as recent as a week or two ago, even in our own Northeast Ohio, we see another scenario where two people, with their only difference being race, are given extremely different punishments for the same crime. How anyone can pretend that we don't have problems with equality, I will never know. 

 

Nick Francona is someone that I am growing to highly respect. He doesn't care what political affiliation someone represents, he doesn't care if its his own father, he will call out anyone for anything. He also walked the walk, being an active member in our military. 

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On 8/17/2021 at 11:13 AM, H2ThaIzzo said:

Dabo threatening to quit coaching if players got paid, but then programs like BYU absolutely crushing it by bringing in energy to the team when a company decided to give every walk on enough money to pay for their scholarships.

Seeing some of the best and worst of traditional values here made me smirk and hurt tbh.

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