Training Camp battles

[turtle28]

On 8/17/2021 at 5:39 PM, lavar703 said:

Looking like a good pick going up against our QBs lol

With that said, I’d love to be wrong about him. 

It’s not just that, he’s looked good in the preseason games too. 

[turtle28]

On 8/18/2021 at 6:08 PM, ripsean21 said:

I don’t know how he was a 7th other then you don’t have to spend a high pick on a slot guy with his traits. Watching Zach over and over and over I literally drafted Milne in ever mock in the 6th because he was there and his value was too high. This guys a gamer. 

I think he fell to the 7th because he doesn’t have the speed/size combo you’d want, but that doesn’t mean he can’t play football. I’m glad we drafted him. He’s 6’, 190 and ran a 4.57 forty. Usually guys who run that kind for 40 you expect to be a 2-4 inches taller and 20-30 lbs heavier, like Cam Sims, AGG or Kelvin Harmon.

[ripsean21]

15 hours ago, turtle28 said:

I think he fell to the 7th because he doesn’t have the speed/size combo you’d want, but that doesn’t mean he can’t play football. I’m glad we drafted him. He’s 6’, 190 and ran a 4.57 forty. Usually guys who run that kind for 40 you expect to be a 2-4 inches taller and 20-30 lbs heavier, like Cam Sims, AGG or Kelvin Harmon.

I mean I understand the traits but his tape is just how I grade and he plays faster. And he’s very sudden in and out of breaks no waisted motions that’s not tracked in the 40. I get why guys drop for these reasons but like I said even after picking duece I love this selection because he or Patterson were by far best avalible and we stole both. I’m just happy they are here I’m glad teams do knock players down because we’ve stole some guys these last few offseason’s at draft time IMO

[RSkinGM]

A tenth of  second distance ,, hhhhmmmm . 

[ripsean21]

5 minutes ago, RSkinGM said:

A tenth of  second distance ,, hhhhmmmm . 

And that’s over 40. When every 5 steps your digging cutting turning changing direction thats where people who don’t waste motions cutting and doing football moves matter so much more then that watch time in a line

[turtle28]

4 hours ago, ripsean21 said:

And that’s over 40. When every 5 steps your digging cutting turning changing direction thats where people who don’t waste motions cutting and doing football moves matter so much more then that watch time in a line

That’s about a half an arm to and arms length which is the difference between making a tackle and not making a tackle Or being tackled or not being tackled.

[ripsean21]

53 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

That’s about a half an arm to and arms length which is the difference between making a tackle and not making a tackle Or being tackled or not being tackled.

It is and speed can kill. But some guys play faster in pads then they run in shorts. It’s just a mental thing. They all can train to run a 40. But running that drill doesn’t simulate many football game situations. But I do agree speed matters. But it’s not like these guys with bad times and good tape don’t have it

[turtle28]

Something I never understood last year and now this year, why doesn’t JD McKissic return kicks for us?

He has experience doing it in college. He is a back up & is explosive. If I was Rivera I’d want to get the ball in his hands more and have him be our return man.

Also, if we did that we wouldn’t have to keep Carter.

[e16bball]

1 hour ago, turtle28 said:

Something I never understood last year and now this year, why doesn’t JD McKissic return kicks for us?

He has experience doing it in college. He is a back up & is explosive. If I was Rivera I’d want to get the ball in his hands more and have him be our return man.

Also, if we did that we wouldn’t have to keep Carter.

Honestly, not a bad idea. I think last year it would’ve been a non-starter for them because McKissic was such a key part of the offense — but with Patterson emerging, he may not be quite as critical. 

That said, the one I’m really concerned about is punt return — as I think Patterson can handle kickoffs perfectly effectively — and McKissic has never really done those. At least not since his sophomore year at Arkansas State (for the Redwolves). He does seem to have the physical skillset for it, though.

It seems impossible that we’re once again in a position where no one can be the damn punt returner. At this point, my best suggestion is let Humphries do it. He was decent for Tampa Bay when he did it for them. If he gets hurt, we’ve got Samuel who can step in and play the slot.

[e16bball]

I will say, though, it won’t burn me up too badly if they keep DeAndre Carter as a pure return man. I’m actually not as worried about the roster crunch as some seem to be — I think they’re feeling some pressure to get it down to 25 on offense and 25 on defense, but I don’t see the need for that.

We could easily keep just 8 DL, because the top 6 are good enough that we won’t WANT to be rotating them that much. We could easily keep 5 LBs, for the opposite reason — the bottom of the depth chart is so bad that it would be ill-advised to keep many of them. We also should feel no need to keep more than 10 DBs, due to Bobby McCain having the ability to play both positions in a pinch. 9 DLs, 5 LBs, 10 DBs makes it easy to keep 26 on offense, and if you only keep 9 OLs and 3 QBs, that leaves 14 spots for RB/WR/TE. Keep all 4 RBs and just 3 TEs, and that lets you keep 7 WRs if you feel the need. One of whom could be Carter, who would likely impact actual games more than a typical TE4 or LB6 ever would. 

I think he’s a genuinely dangerous return man. You look at the 4.48 40 time and think he’s no super-burner, but then you look a little closer. His 1.45 10 yard split ranks with the likes of Henry Ruggs (1.43), Chris Johnson, (1.43), D.K. Metcalf (1.45), Tyreek Hill (1.50), etc. That’s a guy who can hit top speed in a hurry. Add in a 3.80 short shuttle  (comparable to Brandin Cooks) and a 6.64 3-cone drill (comparable to Emmanuel Sanders and Isaiah McKenzie), and you’ve got a guy who legitimately rates in the 100th percentile in terms of agility and burst. 

He’s also thickly built and he doesn’t go down easily, so that adds another level of difficulty to containing him. I don’t know that they’ll keep him just to return kicks, but eventually good teams are able to have luxuries like a pure return man. We may get some idea of how close they think they are based on whether they keep him (and the immediate in-game impact) over a guy like AGG or Milne who might have more long-term value.

[turtle28]

8 hours ago, e16bball said:

Honestly, not a bad idea. I think last year it would’ve been a non-starter for them because McKissic was such a key part of the offense — but with Patterson emerging, he may not be quite as critical. 

That said, the one I’m really concerned about is punt return — as I think Patterson can handle kickoffs perfectly effectively — and McKissic has never really done those. At least not since his sophomore year at Arkansas State (for the Redwolves). He does seem to have the physical skillset for it, though.

It seems impossible that we’re once again in a position where no one can be the damn punt returner. At this point, my best suggestion is let Humphries do it. He was decent for Tampa Bay when he did it for them. If he gets hurt, we’ve got Samuel who can step in and play the slot.

I agree about Humphries, I hate keeping a guy just because no one else can return punts unless that guy is going to be one of the best punt returners in the NFL like Brandon Banks was, and that’s not Carter. Carter seems like a middle of the road return man. Now, if he’s the 6th WR & we put AGG & Milne on the practice squad then I’m cool with that but some people feel we’re going to keep AGG & then Carter to return punts which is 7 WRs & overkill at the WR position to me.

[turtle28]

8 hours ago, e16bball said:

I will say, though, it won’t burn me up too badly if they keep DeAndre Carter as a pure return man. I’m actually not as worried about the roster crunch as some seem to be — I think they’re feeling some pressure to get it down to 25 on offense and 25 on defense, but I don’t see the need for that.

We could easily keep just 8 DL, because the top 6 are good enough that we won’t WANT to be rotating them that much. We could easily keep 5 LBs, for the opposite reason — the bottom of the depth chart is so bad that it would be ill-advised to keep many of them. We also should feel no need to keep more than 10 DBs, due to Bobby McCain having the ability to play both positions in a pinch. 9 DLs, 5 LBs, 10 DBs makes it easy to keep 26 on offense, and if you only keep 9 OLs and 3 QBs, that leaves 14 spots for RB/WR/TE. Keep all 4 RBs and just 3 TEs, and that lets you keep 7 WRs if you feel the need. One of whom could be Carter, who would likely impact actual games more than a typical TE4 or LB6 ever would. 

I think he’s a genuinely dangerous return man. You look at the 4.48 40 time and think he’s no super-burner, but then you look a little closer. His 1.45 10 yard split ranks with the likes of Henry Ruggs (1.43), Chris Johnson, (1.43), D.K. Metcalf (1.45), Tyreek Hill (1.50), etc. That’s a guy who can hit top speed in a hurry. Add in a 3.80 short shuttle  (comparable to Brandin Cooks) and a 6.64 3-cone drill (comparable to Emmanuel Sanders and Isaiah McKenzie), and you’ve got a guy who legitimately rates in the 100th percentile in terms of agility and burst. 

He’s also thickly built and he doesn’t go down easily, so that adds another level of difficulty to containing him. I don’t know that they’ll keep him just to return kicks, but eventually good teams are able to have luxuries like a pure return man. We may get some idea of how close they think they are based on whether they keep him (and the immediate in-game impact) over a guy like AGG or Milne who might have more long-term value.

Good point about the defense. First off IMO, I think they should just keep 8 DL, I don’t think a 9th DL has done anything spectacular to make the team. 
 

I also have seen some people think that only 5 LBs could be kept as well which I honestly don’t see happening given who our coaches are but, it could work especially bc Collins can definitely play like a dime LB when we go in the nickel and we can bring in McCain to be the 2nd safety next to Curl.

DB is going to be a tough cut on this team, just like the WR position, but DB may be even tougher we’re going to need up cutting a guy like Reaves who is a good back up to have and isn’t an awful starter when he needs to be I think which sucks. It’s going to be interesting to see what they do, but I’m comfortable with whatever.