Breathe easy, Jonathan Allen signs an extension.

[MikeT14]

12 hours ago, ARTMONK HOF said:

It’s a good move. I just hope D Payne/T McLaurin will also be offered an extension when it’s their time. 

Possibly would be the odd man out, especially if you keep The Greek, and even Settle.

[HTTRDynasty]

I like the contract structure but this would be a mistake, IMO, if it causes us to lose Payne, who is 2.5 years younger and has yet to reach his true potential. 
 

But I would guess they feel Payne won’t command a massive contract in FA, so it may be doable to lock them all up. We’ll see. 

[RSkinGM]

Is the signing bonus ( $30 million ) the guaranteed part ? If so, we have him 5 years for a guarantee of $30 mill ? I know the $10 mill this year is more or less guaranteed as we surely expect him on the roster . 

[MKnight82]

1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said:

I like the contract structure but this would be a mistake, IMO, if it causes us to lose Payne, who is 2.5 years younger and has yet to reach his true potential. 
 

But I would guess they feel Payne won’t command a massive contract in FA, so it may be doable to lock them all up. We’ll see. 

I imagine we will trade Ioaniddis and sign Payne.

[e16bball]

59 minutes ago, RSkinGM said:

Is the signing bonus ( $30 million ) the guaranteed part ? If so, we have him 5 years for a guarantee of $30 mill ? I know the $10 mill this year is more or less guaranteed as we surely expect him on the roster . 

The way contracts work now, the signing bonus is part of the guaranteed money, but they also frequently guarantee portions of the base salary as well (usually early in the contract). So it’s entirely possible that they may have guaranteed the first year of the extension or something like that. 

The signing bonus is the only part that gets pro-rated for cap purposes, though. It’s given to the player up front, but they split the cap hit up evenly throughout the length of the deal. So the $30M signing bonus will count $7.5M against the cap in each season — that’s where most of the “dead cap” usually comes from when you cut a player before the end of the deal. 

[RSkinGM]

10 minutes ago, e16bball said:

The way contracts work now, the signing bonus is part of the guaranteed money, but they also frequently guarantee portions of the base salary as well (usually early in the contract). So it’s entirely possible that they may have guaranteed the first year of the extension or something like that. 

The signing bonus is the only part that gets pro-rated for cap purposes, though. It’s given to the player up front, but they split the cap hit up evenly throughout the length of the deal. So the $30M signing bonus will count $7.5M against the cap in each season — that’s where most of the “dead cap” usually comes from when you cut a player before the end of the deal. 

Great reply-thanks ! maybe the total guranteed amount will be revealed in the future. 

[turtle28]

2 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

I like the contract structure but this would be a mistake, IMO, if it causes us to lose Payne, who is 2.5 years younger and has yet to reach his true potential. 
 

But I would guess they feel Payne won’t command a massive contract in FA, so it may be doable to lock them all up. We’ll see. 

I agree. I think of any of our starting DL this makes Payne the one who’s likely not on this team in a few years. I hope they trade him in his 5th year option year rather than going the compensatory route. I also hope they re-sign Settle next year - but I’m worried he will get starting $ from another team - that makes Ioannidis a must re-sign and we should draft a DT w/in the first 3 rounds when we lose Payne.

[ARTMONK HOF]

IMO BIG MISTAKE if we don’t resign Payne when the time presents itself!

[RSkinGM]

29 minutes ago, ARTMONK HOF said:

IMO BIG MISTAKE if we don’t resign Payne when the time presents itself!

I agree, but the reality is - Can't keep 'em all ! ( I don't think )

[ARTMONK HOF]

4 minutes ago, RSkinGM said:

I agree, but the reality is - Can't keep 'em all ! ( I don't think )

You’re right I know we can’t keep everyone but I believe he’s just getting started. Seems to have a good head on his shoulders and just loves football. Would HATE to see him making all pro on another team. 

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, ARTMONK HOF said:

You’re right I know we can’t keep everyone but I believe he’s just getting started. Seems to have a good head on his shoulders and just loves football. Would HATE to see him making all pro on another team. 

Jon Allen is benefiting from being the first up for a new contract and the team having the cap space to re-sign him. I think Allen’s impact is undersold by most of the fanbase. His tackles, pressures & QB hits are impressive for an interior DL. 
 

I could go either way on Allen vs Payne. Flip a coin IMO.

[RSkinGM]

9 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Jon Allen is benefiting from being the first up for a new contract and the team having the cap space to re-sign him. I think Allen’s impact is undersold by most of the fanbase. His tackles, pressures & QB hits are impressive for an interior DL. 
 

I could go either way on Allen vs Payne. Flip a coin IMO.

"The Greek" is better than both of them ! Before he tore his bicep anyway . Now, we'll see how he does this year.

[e16bball]

20 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Jon Allen is benefiting from being the first up for a new contract and the team having the cap space to re-sign him. I think Allen’s impact is undersold by most of the fanbase. His tackles, pressures & QB hits are impressive for an interior DL. 
 

I could go either way on Allen vs Payne. Flip a coin IMO.

I feel much the same, although I would add that you get an added benefit of leadership and attitude from Jonathan Allen that isn’t really Payne’s forte. 

We keep waiting for Payne to break through and become consistently dominant in the pass-rush aspect — but it’s still just not quite happening. The capability is there. You see the flashes of unbelievably dominant and explosive plays. But it’s not coming together consistently. For some guys, it never does. A great run defender who will give you sporadic splash pass-rush plays is still a valuable player, but he’s also not irreplaceable. 

I’ll take a beating for this I’m sure, but I would include Payne in a deal for Deshaun Watson. You’d still have one of the better interior DL groups in the league with Allen, Ioannidis, and Settle. You’d solve the problem of too much future money earmarked for the DL. And you’d have a valuable trade chip to lessen the cost in draft picks. 

[ARTMONK HOF]

1 hour ago, e16bball said:

I feel much the same, although I would add that you get an added benefit of leadership and attitude from Jonathan Allen that isn’t really Payne’s forte. 

We keep waiting for Payne to break through and become consistently dominant in the pass-rush aspect — but it’s still just not quite happening. The capability is there. You see the flashes of unbelievably dominant and explosive plays. But it’s not coming together consistently. For some guys, it never does. A great run defender who will give you sporadic splash pass-rush plays is still a valuable player, but he’s also not irreplaceable. 

I’ll take a beating for this I’m sure, but I would include Payne in a deal for Deshaun Watson. You’d still have one of the better interior DL groups in the league with Allen, Ioannidis, and Settle. You’d solve the problem of too much future money earmarked for the DL. And you’d have a valuable trade chip to lessen the cost in draft picks. 

I love D Payne in case you didn’t know. 😀 I guess if The Greek is back to where he was before the injury and getting Deshaun Watson in a trade I guess It would be hard not to do that trade as long as we don’t weaken our defense by not being able to sign the bookend DE’s. Watson is due 40 million in a couple of years and don’t know how all that money can fit under the cap. 
I could be wrong but doubt RR would accept DW with the baggage he brings. 

[turtle28]

On 7/27/2021 at 1:19 PM, RSkinGM said:

"The Greek" is better than both of them ! Before he tore his bicep anyway . Now, we'll see how he does this year.

He’s not really. Ioannidis is not as good as either of them vs the run & he usually gets a 1 on 1 match up when he’s pass rushing. If Ioannidis was better than Allen & Payne he would start over then, but he doesn’t.

Sack stats don’t always tell the whole story which has always been the case with Jon Allen. Jon Allen has gotten over 60 tackles as an interior DL 3 years in a row, last year he was amongst the league leaders for QB hits & QB pressures for an interior DL. So essentially what happens is Allen gets the pressure & flushes the QB off his spot and then someone else cleans up or Allen’s pressure up the middle forces a bad throw, those stats don’t show up on the stat sheet.