Training Camp 2021

[AKRNA]

Can't go into the preseason without a TC thread.

Just read the Bronco's signed Brett Jones to add a little more Competition to the center position. Solid IOL backup. 

 

[broncos67]

Saw an interesting tweet from Cecil Lammey about Surtain. Sounds like they're going to try and get him on the field one way or another. He didn't specify (because of media restrictions) but I get the feeling they're going to use him in some interesting packages. I'm excited to see that come to life.

Also interesting that Calvin Anderson started out at RT in both sessions thus far. I like him, rooting for him to succeed.

[lomaxgrUK]

2 hours ago, broncos67 said:

Saw an interesting tweet from Cecil Lammey about Surtain. Sounds like they're going to try and get him on the field one way or another. He didn't specify (because of media restrictions) but I get the feeling they're going to use him in some interesting packages. I'm excited to see that come to life.

Fangio has made a fair few references to us playing a ton of Dime this year. I expect Surtain to be a big part of that.

2 hours ago, broncos67 said:

Also interesting that Calvin Anderson started out at RT in both sessions thus far. I like him, rooting for him to succeed.

Really happy to see this. I was impressed with what I saw last year; I don't know why we didn't keep him in when he got his chance. He's got the physical tools, that's for sure.

Does anyone else just have the overhanging feeling of doom around this QB situation? I just feel like we've seen this a million times before in the NFL.

1) Young QB struggles, so team brings in veteran QB to push him
2) Veteran QB shows better in camp
3) Neither really get going in preseason games due to split reps
4) Coaches go with the vet for Week 1
5) Vet struggles, because after all he is a veteran journeyman QB and 'he is who he is'. Fans clamour for young QB
6) Young QB comes in, gives a short boost before inevitably falling back down to earth

... and ...

7) Team still doesn't have a QB.

 

 

Edited July 30, 2021 by lomaxgrUK

[broncos67]

1 hour ago, lomaxgrUK said:

Fangio has made a fair few references to us playing a ton of Dime this year. I expect Surtain to be a big part of that.

Really happy to see this. I was impressed with what I saw last year; I don't know why we didn't keep him in when he got his chance. He's got the physical tools, that's for sure.

Does anyone else just have the overhanging feeling of doom around this QB situation? I just feel like we've seen this a million times before in the NFL.

1) Young QB struggles, so team brings in veteran QB to push him
2) Veteran QB shows better in camp
3) Neither really get going in preseason games due to split reps
4) Coaches go with the vet for Week 1
5) Vet struggles, because after all he is a veteran journeyman QB and 'he is who he is'. Fans clamour for young QB
6) Young QB comes in, gives a short boost before inevitably falling back down to earth

... and ...

7) Team still doesn't have a QB.

 

 

Lock is going to start. I have literally zero doubt about it. They (correctly) brought in Teddy to challenge him rather than Jeff Driskel. Lock will make enough plays to start. It's what he does with those starts that will determine whether they bring in Bridgewater. If, for example, Lock starts out 0-4 or 1-3 and looks awful, they're going to bring in Teddy to try and salvage the season. I would almost guarantee that. If Lock starts off hot, great! He'll probably get the year to prove his worth.

At the end of the day, honestly, I expect Rodgers to sign here next offseason. The tea leaves sure read that way. Especially if he's a free agent.

[AKRNA]

Sounds like Patricks picking up where he left off last year. It'll be interesting to watch he and Sutton this year. Only one will get extended.

Not quite sure how he arranged it but Paton.s still got $26m under the cap.

[BroncoBruin]

Sounds like the QBs have been as advertised: Checkdown Teddy and Roller Coaster Drew.

Teddy is “safer” in a classic defensive team context, but who can produce more points? I think with either we’re looking at low 20s per game…which should be enough to be in the mix. 

[AKRNA]

3 hours ago, BroncoBruin said:

Sounds like the QBs have been as advertised: Checkdown Teddy and Roller Coaster Drew.

Teddy is “safer” in a classic defensive team context, but who can produce more points? I think with either we’re looking at low 20s per game…which should be enough to be in the mix. 

I'm a little more optimistic there. If you toss out the NO fiasco we averaged 21 pts a game. I could easily see a 6 pt increase which gets us right at the top 10.

The same decrease, -6 PPG on the defense would get us near top 5. Maybe I'm too optimistic but I don't think so. The talent and depth improvement across the board has been amazing. Add in Von's return, Chubb'  healthy, 2nd year in the same system, Steady Teddy in the wings and the offensive skill positions with a year under their belt.

Just reducing our TO's from a league worst would be huge.

I'm just really bullish on this team. I can't find one position group that hasn't improve significantly.

If Fangio can't produce with this group, well, he doesn't deserve the job.

[jolly red giant]

On the QBs I think there are a couple of things that are clear after the last 3 days -

1. When Fangio gave some of the defensive starters a day off Lock was able to up his game. When Miller, Harris, Jackson etc go back in Lock will be back to forcing the ball, overthrowing his receivers etc. 

2. Teddy is playing not to lose the starting job - steady Teddy who will get the team into a position for FGs but not TDs

3. Lock is better in the red zone simply because he takes more chances

4. Lock is still struggling going through his progressions.

5. The receivers will benefit from Teddy's ability to anticipate their route running (especially Jeudy) 

6. We are exactly where we expected to be - and we still need a QB.

 

I think at this stage you have to play Lock - with Teddy you will win games 12-9 and 9-6 - at least Lock will get the score up a bit even if he costs the team points because of his mistakes.

[jolly red giant]

6 hours ago, AKRNA said:

If Fangio can't produce with this group, well, he doesn't deserve the job.

Fangio will produce and the Broncos likely will have a winning season - but with either Lock or Teddy at QB the team will hit a road block when they face a team with a much better QB and there is nothing Fangio can do about that.

[PFM18]

Hopefully as training camp progresses, both Teddy and Drew will get more acclimated to the playbook, and go for it. This is an NFL starting job on the line and I imagine whoever doesn't earn it will be looking at a future as a perennial backup. 

On 7/30/2021 at 3:47 PM, lomaxgrUK said:

Fangio has made a fair few references to us playing a ton of Dime this year. I expect Surtain to be a big part of that.

Really happy to see this. I was impressed with what I saw last year; I don't know why we didn't keep him in when he got his chance. He's got the physical tools, that's for sure.

Does anyone else just have the overhanging feeling of doom around this QB situation? I just feel like we've seen this a million times before in the NFL.

1) Young QB struggles, so team brings in veteran QB to push him
2) Veteran QB shows better in camp
3) Neither really get going in preseason games due to split reps
4) Coaches go with the vet for Week 1
5) Vet struggles, because after all he is a veteran journeyman QB and 'he is who he is'. Fans clamour for young QB
6) Young QB comes in, gives a short boost before inevitably falling back down to earth

... and ...

7) Team still doesn't have a QB.

 

 

If the end result of the season is "Denver Broncos don't have answer at QB" and we get mentioned ad nauseum in every Watson and Rodgers story next offseason, that wouldn't surprise me one bit. 

My hope is that Drew breaks through this glass barrier or whatever that seems to be holding him back from being a franchise QB, proves he can play in the league and we can move on with him as our long term solution, but that's the optimistic view and it feels a lot like neither he or Teddy will be here next season as we're on the phone to Aaron Rodgers agent selling him on the positives of Jerry Jeudy compared to Davonte Adams.

[AKRNA]

6 hours ago, jolly red giant said:

Fangio will produce and the Broncos likely will have a winning season - but with either Lock or Teddy at QB the team will hit a road block when they face a team with a much better QB and there is nothing Fangio can do about that.

It'll take much more than just a better QB to beat this team. Fangio/Paton have already done something about it.

[AnAngryAmerican]

On 7/30/2021 at 10:28 AM, broncos67 said:

Lock is going to start. I have literally zero doubt about it. They (correctly) brought in Teddy to challenge him rather than Jeff Driskel. Lock will make enough plays to start. It's what he does with those starts that will determine whether they bring in Bridgewater. If, for example, Lock starts out 0-4 or 1-3 and looks awful, they're going to bring in Teddy to try and salvage the season. I would almost guarantee that. If Lock starts off hot, great! He'll probably get the year to prove his worth.

At the end of the day, honestly, I expect Rodgers to sign here next offseason. The tea leaves sure read that way. Especially if he's a free agent.

According to what I’ve been reading/hearing, Lock has “won” 3 of the 4 practices so far. That’s good news because Lock is our glimmer of hope, if he can make strides and prove to be a franchise QB there’d be no one happier than me. 

I still worry that Vic/Shurmur coaching for their jobs and (Vic) trusting the defense will go with the safe, reliable vet rather than the “calculated gunslinger” in an attempt to avoid the big mistakes that are going to happen with any young QB but one of Lock’s makeup most especially. The goal will be to post a 9-8 record or better and make an argument for Paton to keep them around another year. 

And in the end I am with you, unless Lock makes a Josh Allen-like leap, they’re going to get Aaron here next year, the new owners will want to make a big splash. 

[BroncoBruin]

So…Teddy’s arm might just be shot? 

[AKRNA]

58 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

So…Teddy’s arm might just be shot? 

Why's that?

[jolly red giant]

16 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

According to what I’ve been reading/hearing, Lock has “won” 3 of the 4 practices so far. That’s good news because Lock is our glimmer of hope, if he can make strides and prove to be a franchise QB there’d be no one happier than me. 

I still worry that Vic/Shurmur coaching for their jobs and (Vic) trusting the defense will go with the safe, reliable vet rather than the “calculated gunslinger” in an attempt to avoid the big mistakes that are going to happen with any young QB but one of Lock’s makeup most especially. The goal will be to post a 9-8 record or better and make an argument for Paton to keep them around another year. 

And in the end I am with you, unless Lock makes a Josh Allen-like leap, they’re going to get Aaron here next year, the new owners will want to make a big splash. 

Depends on how you evaluate the competition -

Teddy was steady Teddy for the first three days - little flash - a lot of check downs - and took advantage of quality route running from the likes of Jeudy. He was bad on day 4 because of the picks and near picks. Fangio threw a lot of new looks at him on defence and from the pressers it looks like Fangio wants Teddy to take more risks.

Lock was bad on day 1 until the red zone drills where he nailed it (which is why some people marginally gave him the nod) - he was brutal on day 2 - he was very good on day 3 (primarily because some of the vets on defence were given a day off) - and he clearly won day 4 because of a combination of Teddy's picks and him hitting 3/4 deep balls. 

To be honest - I think the team is capable of posting a winning record and I don't think it makes any difference which QB they use. The defence will keep the team in the game and the offence will score enough points to compensate for Lock's mistakes and Teddy's check downs. I can't see Lock making the leap - I think the best we can hope for is that he improves with his progressions and take what the defence is giving him and reduce the mistakes - but, at best, I can't see him being any more than serviceable. Saying that - I think it would be the correct decision to make him the starter.

I also think that Fangio has a longer leash than you suggest. I get the impression that Paton respects Fangio and likes what he is doing. As long as the wheels don't completely fall off the bus, I think Paton will give him another year - especially if he can get Rodgers.