Shockwave Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Yea I don't really get this notion that the recent 4 drafts have been better then the pre 2013 classes either. He hit on a couple studs (OBJ, Collins), a couple of starters(Flowers, Richburg) and 1 massive steal in Kennard. It's still way to early to judge 17 and 16 and 2014 was a nice little group, the top of 2015 is noteworthy and Hart but I'm not blown away. Would it be a stretch to say that 2 years from now OBJ, Collins, and maybe Richburg are the only guys left from those two draft classes still on the roster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 2 hours ago, Go_Giants said: Blaming Reese is the right choice. The offensive lines has been horrible for five years if not longer. As the GM he needed to bring in the right players to fix it and he has not. He deserves the blame and he deserves to be fired, the only question is if Mara clean house and fires Mcadoo as well. The offensive line hasn't been horrible for 5 years. The last two years it's been horrible. If they were horrible then Eli wouldn't have posted the numbers he did. People do ignore that we have 3 high picks on our o-line. And we were in Conklin in 2016. Let's not act out he has completely neglected it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 2 hours ago, Shockey1979 said: Yea I don't really get this notion that the recent 4 drafts have been better then the pre 2013 classes either. He hit on a couple studs (OBJ, Collins), a couple of starters(Flowers, Richburg) and 1 massive steal in Kennard. It's still way to early to judge 17 and 16 and 2014 was a nice little group, the top of 2015 is noteworthy and Hart but I'm not blown away. Would it be a stretch to say that 2 years from now OBJ, Collins, and maybe Richburg are the only guys left from those two draft classes still on the roster? We got 3 starters out of 2014 plus a rotational d-lineman. 2015, we got 3 starters. Whereas in 2009 every single one of them is out of the league and had 3 contributors. 2010 we had 2 contributors. 2011 draft we got 2. In 2012 we Had 1. 2013 we got 2. So if my maths are right we got 10 contributors from a span of 5 drafts. IN 2014 and 15 alone we have gotten 7 already in total. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockwave Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 No doubt 2014 is his best draft class since 2007. Thing is though you could go back to 2014 and make the same post you just made, but about the 2013 and 2012 draft classes. And at the time they would have sounded rosy too. But here we are 4 years later and we know the truth now. Quote Would it be a stretch to say that 2 years from now OBJ, Collins, and maybe Richburg are the only guys left from those two draft classes still on the roster? ^ Would it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acgott Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 49 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said: We got 3 starters out of 2014 plus a rotational d-lineman. 2015, we got 3 starters. Whereas in 2009 every single one of them is out of the league and had 3 contributors. 2010 we had 2 contributors. 2011 draft we got 2. In 2012 we Had 1. 2013 we got 2. So if my maths are right we got 10 contributors from a span of 5 drafts. IN 2014 and 15 alone we have gotten 7 already in total. Just because they are starting for us does not make them a good pick. 2014 was a great draft. 2015 was not. One great player and 2 players that should have been cut. I don't care that Flowers and Hart are "starting", it doesn't become a positive that we haven't cut them yet. Flowers and Hart will be done once their contract is finished after 2018 and lasted 4 seasons. 2009- Nicks and Beatty are successes because they lasted more then 4 years... Andre Brown does not count, we cut him before he played for us. So 2 good starters that lasted more then Flowers and Hart. 2010- Linval and JPP were 2 great starters not contributors or terrible starters 2011- We got Prince as an average starter. I guess you consider Jacquian Williams the contributor? Either was a better pick then Flowers or Hart. 2012- Rueban Randle did more for the Giants then either Flowers or Hart. 2013- Pugh and Hankins are better starters then Flowers or Hart. 2014: A great draft with OBJ, Richburg, Bromley, and Kennard 2015: A bad draft when we picked #9 and only got one good player in LC. With this, I don't even know what I'm arguing except to say Reese has not drafted well. Starters do not equal good picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acgott Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 The biggest thing is that Reese hasn't nailed our top 10 draft pick- Apple in 2016 or Flowers in 2015. That is a huge reason why our team has fallen apart. The 2 picks should be leading our team, not being discussed if they will be benched and cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 hour ago, Acgott said: Just because they are starting for us does not make them a good pick. 2014 was a great draft. 2015 was not. One great player and 2 players that should have been cut. I don't care that Flowers and Hart are "starting", it doesn't become a positive that we haven't cut them yet. Flowers and Hart will be done once their contract is finished after 2018 and lasted 4 seasons. 2009- Nicks and Beatty are successes because they lasted more then 4 years... Andre Brown does not count, we cut him before he played for us. So 2 good starters that lasted more then Flowers and Hart. 2010- Linval and JPP were 2 great starters not contributors or terrible starters 2011- We got Prince as an average starter. I guess you consider Jacquian Williams the contributor? Either was a better pick then Flowers or Hart. 2012- Rueban Randle did more for the Giants then either Flowers or Hart. 2013- Pugh and Hankins are better starters then Flowers or Hart. 2014: A great draft with OBJ, Richburg, Bromley, and Kennard 2015: A bad draft when we picked #9 and only got one good player in LC. With this, I don't even know what I'm arguing except to say Reese has not drafted well. Starters do not equal good picks. Thats the point though when you look at that chart of picks still on roster from 2009-13 it doesn't take into account the quality of those players. Like we have let of some real good players and others who have had injuries derail their career I never said starting=quality. It's simpler to do measure as contributors because it's easier to compare that with other teams. 2015 is a poor draft without only one at least "solid level" starter. I'll give you that but he still has a great draft in 2014. A 2016 draft with young decent LB, a good WR, an unproven young safety and a young corner with potential. Thst class is hard to evaluate but overall I like what I see from these recent drafts 2015 excluded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acgott Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Reese is the reason why we are in this mess. If the drafts were good, and the free agents were good. We wouldn't be heading towards our fifth missed playoffs since Superbowl 2011. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minutemancl Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 5 hours ago, Shockey1979 said: Would it be a stretch to say that 2 years from now OBJ, Collins, and maybe Richburg are the only guys left from those two draft classes still on the roster? Richburg won't even be on the roster next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 He isn't THE reason. The reason we're 1-6 right now, is yes we haven't protected Eli. And our defense hasn't played to its level of last year. Now the former can be attributed to lack of success in drafting OL. Blaming this predicament entirely on Reese is just naivety. As for FA, he's never really had money to spend and the one year he did it produced a great defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acgott Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 4 hours ago, Kip Smithers said: He isn't THE reason. The reason we're 1-6 right now, is yes we haven't protected Eli. And our defense hasn't played to its level of last year. Now the former can be attributed to lack of success in drafting OL. Blaming this predicament entirely on Reese is just naivety. As for FA, he's never really had money to spend and the one year he did it produced a great defense. There are many reasons for why we are terrible, but Reese is at the very top of the list. We made the playoffs once since the Super Bowl. That is terrible. Reese hasn’t put together consistentally good rosters for us. You say we never have money to spend? Come on now. Everyone has the same amount of money to spend. It’s Reese’s fault if he isn’t allocating his resources correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 3 hours ago, Acgott said: There are many reasons for why we are terrible, but Reese is at the very top of the list. We made the playoffs once since the Super Bowl. That is terrible. Reese hasn’t put together consistentally good rosters for us. You say we never have money to spend? Come on now. Everyone has the same amount of money to spend. It’s Reese’s fault if he isn’t allocating his resources correctly. Yeah we made the playoffs once and in that time we have replaced both our coordinators after complaints from fans on both of them. Why did we replace them? Because it was felt they weren't good enough. It's a results business and somebody has to be blamed. We don't blame coaching, we don't blame scouting department. I bet you if I were to compare our draft success across the league I bet you its not as bad as you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockwave Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Just now, Kip Smithers said: . I bet you if I were to compare our draft success across the league I bet you its not as bad as you think. Lets see it then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 56 minutes ago, Shockey1979 said: Lets see it then... Check out the Pats who have accumulated a tonne of picks over the years. From 2009 to 2013. In 2009 only one good player Edelman. Patrick Chung is meh and he struggled in Philly. 2010 he got arguably GOAT TE, another good one in Hernandez who is no longer with them and Brandon Spikes. Only Gronk remains. 2011 only two players remain Nate Solder is a solid tackle and Cannon is a serviceable at best starter. 2 players. 2012 two very good players. 2013 a good player in Collins and A serviceable corner in Logan Ryan neither are on the roster. Their 2014 draft has only two guys remaining on that roster. Their C. This is just one team. I'll get you another team. So from 2009 to 2013 you can say only 6 guys of note remain on that roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockwave Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Umm..did you miss the screenshot on the 1st page of this thread that Acgott posted? In 2016 the Pats had 11 players left on their roster from the 2009-2013 draft classes... the Giants had 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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