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Giants' GM Jerry Reese: 'I'm the reason we're 1-6'

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4 hours ago, Acgott said:

We have had a bad OL for a number of years. Why do you think we drafted one so highly?

A GM and a HC work together on the draft, but I’m going with Reese has final say over Coughlin. Absolutely. Reese spends all year with his scouts preparing for the draft, Coughlin just a few months. Although I don’t think there are many examples when they weren’t on the same page.

It seems you want to keep Reese, so are you firing McAdoo? Or do you want to keep both of them? 

Flowers wasn't meant to be a RT at first but Beatty's injury meant he was forced to play left. If the OL was bad then why did Eli have a two very good years in a row. If our o-line was as bad as you say it was then no way ELi could've done what he have done.

Well we really don't know who has final say. It's a collective decision. It's just as much Coughlins pick as its Reese and other members of the scout department and the margins in drafts are small.

im not even necessarily saying I want Reese to say I just don't like that he's an easy target and that we are reactionary to the results. We play the results too much.

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1 hour ago, Shockey1979 said:

So I felt a little froggy and decided to compile Reeses's draft classes by game ultimately played in the NFL in comparison to Accorsi's. So if that doesn't make sense it's the total games the cumulative players from that draft class went on to play in the NFL (not just for the Giants). Now obviously I can't do any of Reeses recent draft classes for this since some are still playing (and to be fair Eli is still playing so 2004 is still increasin) so I started with 2012

2012: 238
2011: 251
2010: 273
2009: 303
2008: 295
2007: 584

2006: 505
2005: 412 (only 4 picks)
2004: 566
2003: 957 (11 picks)
2002: 398
2001: 337
2000: 669

Reese Avg: 324
Accorsi Avg: 549
 

Reese's 2007 draft class was excellent but he's never come close to replicating it. Now granted this way of comparing holds career ending injuries like Wilson and Kenny Phillips against the GM but the same can be said for guys like Sinorice Moss in the Accorsi era. So I figure it's a wash it the overall consolidation.

Kenny Phillips, Chad Jones, David Wilson, Terrell Thomas, Clint Sintim, Steve Smith just to name a few more who had serious injuries that derailed their career. 

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17 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

Flowers wasn't meant to be a RT at first but Beatty's injury meant he was forced to play left. If the OL was bad then why did Eli have a two very good years in a row. If our o-line was as bad as you say it was then no way ELi could've done what he have done.

Well we really don't know who has final say. It's a collective decision. It's just as much Coughlins pick as its Reese and other members of the scout department and the margins in drafts are small.

im not even necessarily saying I want Reese to say I just don't like that he's an easy target and that we are reactionary to the results. We play the results too much.

The stats show Eli is having a good year. Do we have a good OL then?

Of course we play the results. The results have been terrible for the past 5 years.

In your humble opinion, how do we fix this team...

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11 hours ago, Kip Smithers said:

Kenny Phillips, Chad Jones, David Wilson, Terrell Thomas, Clint Sintim, Steve Smith just to name a few more who had serious injuries that derailed their career. 

I mentioned Phillips and Wilson in my post.
- Terrell Thomas blew his ACL in 2011 and again in early 2012 but then came back to play an entire season for the Giants in 2013 and played briefly for the Seahawks in 2014 and then retired in 2015. His career wasn't ended by injury (at least according to his Wiki). He was healthy after 2013 and decided to retire.

Chad Jones failed the physical and ended his career due to injuries sustained in a car accident that he was never able to recover from. Non football related.

Steve Smith recovered from his injury and went on to play 18 games for the Eagles and Ram and then retired. His career wasn't ended by injury

I mean I could cite numerous guys drafted by Accorsi that are similar. Like I said Sinorice Moss, Reggie Torbor, Ron Dixon etc

 

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7 minutes ago, Shockey1979 said:

I mentioned Phillips and Wilson in my post.
- Terrell Thomas blew his ACL in 2011 and again in early 2012 but then came back to play an entire season for the Giants in 2013 and played briefly for the Seahawks in 2014 and then retired in 2015. His career wasn't ended by injury (at least according to his Wiki). He was healthy after 2013 and decided to retire.

Chad Jones failed the physical and ended his career due to injuries sustained in a car accident that he was never able to recover from. Non football related.

Steve Smith recovered from his injury and went on to play 18 games for the Eagles and Ram and then retired. His career wasn't ended by injury

I mean I could cite numerous guys drafted by Accorsi that are similar. Like I said Sinorice Moss, Reggie Torbor, Ron Dixon etc

 

Really you're going use the technicality of "There career didn't end due to the injury they sustained while they were with us"?  They clearly had career altering injuries that made them never the same and meant we couldn't invest in them for an extended period of time. Come on man. 

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No but if you're just going to throw out a bunch of names without giving context I'm at least going to provide the context. When I was making the list I spot checked a bunch of names and felt there wasn't a huge differentiation between the amount of guys who's careers ended due to injury. Which is why I called it a wash.

 

Quote

. I bet you if I were to compare our draft success across the league I bet you its not as bad as you think. 

^ How's this coming along? Cause your Pats example was debunked on the first page. Where is the rest?

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12 hours ago, Acgott said:

The stats show Eli is having a good year. Do we have a good OL then?

Of course we play the results. The results have been terrible for the past 5 years.

In your humble opinion, how do we fix this team...

10 TD in and 5 INT in then 7 games is not really good. It's OK. Compare that to 35 and 14 & 30 and 14 that's night and day.

The results haven't good enough overall. But a few bounces here and there and you guys would be singing a different tune. For instance We're 1-6 coming of an 11 win season where nothing was said on Reese. And we thought we'd be contenders in the conference based on the ROSTER we had in place because clearly we thought the roster was good enough to have those aspirations. So if we win the Eagles game, the Chargers game and the Bucs game we be 4-3. Would you guys be singing the same tune. That's playing the results.

ive said to fix this team we focus on building a good o-line. That's it and everything else will fall in place. It's that simple. Going for a rebuild and a complete blow up is dumb. 

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2 minutes ago, Shockey1979 said:

No but if you're just going to throw out a bunch of names without giving context I'm at least going to provide the context. When I was making the list I spot checked a bunch of names and felt there wasn't a huge differentiation between the amount of guys who's careers ended due to injury. Which is why I called it a wash.

 

^ How's this coming along? Cause your Pats example was debunked on the first page. Where is the rest?

Lol where and how was my Pats point debunked. 

Exactly context does need to be provided because you made it seem as if those guys leaving was a product of poor drafting and them not being good enough, and thus boosting those numbers, when it actuality their injuries sustained with us is the reason why we didn't keep them on. 

Moreover compsring him to  Accorsi isn't the point here. We have to measure his success across the current state of the league. 

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They clearly had career altering injuries that made them never the same and meant we couldn't invest in them for an extended period of time. Come on man. 

 

And I can see you clearly didn't actually read the criteria of the list. This is not the amount of games played for the New York Giants. It's the total amount of games played in the NFL. What those numbers scream to me is Accorsi had a much better eye for spotting talent as his picks consistently went on to have much longer NFL careers then Reese's picks.

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On 10/25/2017 at 7:42 PM, Acgott said:

Despite what it says its a list of 2009-2013 draft picks still on the Giants roster

 

Quote

 

Check out the Pats who have accumulated a tonne of picks over the years. From 2009 to 2013. 

In 2009 only one good player Edelman. Patrick Chung is meh and he struggled in Philly. 2010 he got arguably GOAT TE, another good one in Hernandez who is no longer with them and Brandon Spikes. Only Gronk remains. 2011 only two players remain Nate Solder is a solid tackle and Cannon is a serviceable at best starter. 2 players. 2012 two very good players. 2013 a good player in Collins and A serviceable corner in Logan Ryan neither are on the roster. Their 2014 draft has only two guys remaining on that roster. Their C. This is just one team. I'll get you another team. So from 2009 to 2013 you can say only 6 guys of note remain on that roster. 

 

 

Edited by Shockey1979

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Since we know Wikipedia.com is fact I suggest we take a look at this one right before his personal life...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Reese

Quote

After his second Super Bowl victory in 2011, Reese has taken the franchise to a downfall. His draft classes have taken a toll towards rock bottom, especially for wasting a first round pick on Ereck Flowers. The man has such a big ego that he refuses to own up to his mistakes, except to defend his BFF Ben Macado

 

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2 hours ago, Kip Smithers said:

10 TD in and 5 INT in then 7 games is not really good. It's OK. Compare that to 35 and 14 & 30 and 14 that's night and day.

The results haven't good enough overall. But a few bounces here and there and you guys would be singing a different tune. For instance We're 1-6 coming of an 11 win season where nothing was said on Reese. And we thought we'd be contenders in the conference based on the ROSTER we had in place because clearly we thought the roster was good enough to have those aspirations. So if we win the Eagles game, the Chargers game and the Bucs game we be 4-3. Would you guys be singing the same tune. That's playing the results.

ive said to fix this team we focus on building a good o-line. That's it and everything else will fall in place. It's that simple. Going for a rebuild and a complete blow up is dumb. 

I think we can throw out last year season as an outlier. Eli is having a decent season especially with no OL, RB, or WR.

Football is a game of inches. It’s said every year. We can go through every single team and find that one or two plays that changes the game in a majority of the games. That doesn’t exclude the final results. We are 1-6. Completely unacceptable. Blown out in first two, blown leads in the other 4. That comes down to the coaching and the players.

We have an offense that is basic. A coach that can’t handle the media or the team.

You say we should fix the OL like there is some magic wand. Reese tried to fix the OL. He failed. Why should he be given a second chance (third, fourth?).

Reese has failed drafting especially in the top 10. McAdoo has failed at coaching.

When this many things are broken, it’s time to fix it. Wrapping the broken ankle won’t save us. We need surgery. 

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7 hours ago, Acgott said:

I think we can throw out last year season as an outlier. Eli is having a decent season especially with no OL, RB, or WR.

Football is a game of inches. It’s said every year. We can go through every single team and find that one or two plays that changes the game in a majority of the games. That doesn’t exclude the final results. We are 1-6. Completely unacceptable. Blown out in first two, blown leads in the other 4. That comes down to the coaching and the players.

We have an offense that is basic. A coach that can’t handle the media or the team.

You say we should fix the OL like there is some magic wand. Reese tried to fix the OL. He failed. Why should he be given a second chance (third, fourth?).

Reese has failed drafting especially in the top 10. McAdoo has failed at coaching.

When this many things are broken, it’s time to fix it. Wrapping the broken ankle won’t save us. We need surgery. 

Again 10-5 pales in comparison to what he did in 2014 and 2015. You saw the atrocity of 2013 with a poor o-line. 

Yes it's a game of inches therefore be consistent. Have the same outrage in a close victory as you would in a close win. There's a saying "Do not ignore in victory that you wouldn't ignore in defeat". We are the same team with the same problems if we were 4-3. If you wouldn't be saying rebuild at 4-3 due to lucky bounces here and there so don't be saying that at 1-6. It could be just one of those seasons. If we were getting blown out while being 1-6 then fine. This year we have been unlucky and last year we were lucky. We have been blown out in one game, the first game. Lions and Seahawks games weren't exactly blowouts.

Reese has failed drafting in the top 10? Lol he's drafted in the top 10 twice. Small sample. Flowers is a bad pick even if he becomes average. I'll give you that. Eli Apple? Wayyy too early.

im saying fix the o-line as in make it a priority. He has invested 3 high picks on the o-line, two have panned out. The others are FA. We got John Jerry who is somewhat competent. Geoff Schwartz didn't miss a game before he arrived at the Giants and then he arrives and can't stay on the field. He hasn't exactly focused on the o-line as much as you say he has.

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51 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

Again 10-5 pales in comparison to what he did in 2014 and 2015. You saw the atrocity of 2013 with a poor o-line. 

Yes it's a game of inches therefore be consistent. Have the same outrage in a close victory as you would in a close win. There's a saying "Do not ignore in victory that you wouldn't ignore in defeat". We are the same team with the same problems if we were 4-3. If you wouldn't be saying rebuild at 4-3 due to lucky bounces here and there so don't be saying that at 1-6. It could be just one of those seasons. If we were getting blown out while being 1-6 then fine. This year we have been unlucky and last year we were lucky. We have been blown out in one game, the first game. Lions and Seahawks games weren't exactly blowouts.

Reese has failed drafting in the top 10? Lol he's drafted in the top 10 twice. Small sample. Flowers is a bad pick even if he becomes average. I'll give you that. Eli Apple? Wayyy too early.

im saying fix the o-line as in make it a priority. He has invested 3 high picks on the o-line, two have panned out. The others are FA. We got John Jerry who is somewhat competent. Geoff Schwartz didn't miss a game before he arrived at the Giants and then he arrives and can't stay on the field. He hasn't exactly focused on the o-line as much as you say he has.

0-2 in the top 10 is a big enough sample size. Apple can change it, but right now he's a disappointment. 

Of course its a whole new story at 4-3 or a winning record. But we are going to miss the playoffs for what the 5th time in 6 years? Even if you exclude this and last as outliers his past few years have been failures. 

Losing by 2 touchdowns is a blow out.

Sigh, 3 high draft picks a high FA a "quality" FA  and our OL is still a mess. That shows me he hasn't been able to hit on the OL.

Its time to move on. A fresh start is needed by the team. I know I won't convince you, so I'll move on.

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