A good video on Tomlin

[Magnus-Viktor]

 

[August4th]

 he makes some good points but I think only 2-3 coaches have been more successful since tomlin took over 10 yrs ago... tomlin annoys me but it could be way worse and I believe the steelers have a winning record without ben and are 5-2 this yr with ben playing like garbage most of the time ..also doubt we'll see below 500 teams in the playoffs

[Steeler Hitman]

[Steeler Hitman]

10 year record comparison

Mike Tomilin                                         Bill Cowher                             Chuck Noll                     Bill Belichick

Teams: Steelers                                  Steelers                                    Steelers                         Browns (4) & Patriots

103 - 57 .644                                         99 - 61 .619                            88 - 53 .624                  93 - 67 .581

Worst season 8 - 8                              Worst season 6-10               Worst Season 1-13       Worst season 5 - 11

Play-offs 7 - 10                                    Play-offs 7 -10                       Play-offs 7 -10               Play-offs 5 - 10

Super Bowls  2 (1-1)                           Super Bowls 1 (-1)                Super Bowls 3 (3-0)     Super Bowls 3 (3-0)

 

Mike McCarthy                                  John Harbaugh

Teams: Packers                                 Ravens

104 - 55 - 1 .650                               In 10 season (3-4) 88-63 .583

Worst Season 6 - 10                        Worst season 5 - 11

Play-offs  8 - 10                                6 - 10

Super Bowls 1 (1-0)                         Super Bowls 1 (1-0)

 

Some of the top coaches present and Steelers Coaching comparison

[43M]

Colin Cowherd is a complete idiot.   Always has been.  He attacks Tomlin non-stop and its always the same garbage that alot of fans use to bash him.   He tries to blame him for everything.   No one should be using him as a source to support any Tomlin-hating agenda.

Tomlin has his faults....that cannot be argued or denied.    If we were to replace him, I would be fine with it as long as it was well thought out.  Most fans do NOT have well thought out arguments or logic when attacking him..  Not that there isnt any logical criticisms of Tomlin....there are plenty.   But most of the "Fire Tomlin" chanters are usually just knee-jerking yinzers who think they know everything about how to run an NFL team and that Tomlin would be so easy to replace.    His haters like to continuously ignore the fact that there arent a ton of Bill Belichicks out there available to hire.   At worst, Tomlin is an average coach.....because most coaches have their flaws.     As I said in another thread....I think Bill Belichick has raised the bar so high that fans have unrealistic expectations of head coaches now.     

Anything that goes wrong will always reflect poorly on the head coach.   Some are fair criticisms....some are not.    Tomlin has been head coach for 10 years now, and his team has never had a losing season.   Tomlin haters will give everyone else credit for that fact as they always have.    Things like....

"Only reason he has never had a losing season is because he inherited Ben Roethlisberger" ....oh....and how has that worked out for the coaches who have had guys like Philip Rivers, Drew Brees, Eli Manning, Tony Romo, etc...?    At what point do you put things in perspective and realize that for all of Tomlin's faults, he also does alot of things right?    The haters just like to blindly bash him and blame him when things arent going well....but when things are going well, they give everyone credit except him?   You cant have it both ways, and thats always been my major issue with alot of the Tomlin haters.  Not because people simply dont think he is a good coach....I have no issue with that.   Its the lack of logic, perspective and objectivity surrounding their hatred of Tomlin.

Bottom line....Tomlin isnt a great coach.    He has alot of flaws and too many ups and downs.    In general, Id label him as an above average coach, and while you could do better, you can most certainly do worse.    So, if you want to replace him, you damn well better know you can go out and do better...and there are no guarantees about who youre getting.

Honestly, I can deal with the ugly losses to inferior teams here and there if we are making the playoffs every year......all I want to see is that Tomlin can actually learn from the past.   He can start proving that when we play New England and by trying something different other than the off man, soft zone, uber conservative bullshiz that has failed time after time after time.    Evem if we dont win....thats fine.   Just prove that you can actually adapt and compete with New England....thats all I ask of you, Mike Tomlin.   .     

[Steeler Hitman]

I placed this chart up here to show just how close Tomlin is compared to the Steelers great coaches and some of the best today.  Many people will forget that Coach Belichick received his fair share of criticism early on and was fired from his first head coaching job in Cleveland.  Coach Belichick is also the coach that Coach Chuck Noll won his final game coaching from in 1991. 

After being fired from Cleveland, Coach Belichick did not receive another offer for another five years until he started his tenure with New England in 2000.  Despite some of the "flaws" in his coaching game, he is still among the best today and has a better winning record than many other great coaches. 

Could he be a little better with preparation versus lesser opponents? Sure.

Does he make some questionable in game decisions and challenges? Yep

Could he be more of a disciplinarian and handle team distractions better? Yes

However, he is a motivator,  intelligent, strong and has great leadership qualities.  He is also not a finished product. 

I did not like the initial hiring of Coach Tomlin over Coach Whizenhunt, but the Steelers made the right choice.  Will he enter into G.O.A.T. status like many say that Lombardi and Belichick are? I don't know. Right now, like him or not, he is heading in that direction.

 

-

 

.

 

 

[warfelg]

Not to mention some other things about Tomlin:

~In his 10 years he's one of the best at challenging plays.

~In his 10 years we're the best at 4th down conversion.

~In his 10 years we're the best at 2pt conversions.

The coach I work with now has certain 'star' categories, which is if you end up in the positive in these categories then you are more likely to win than not.  These are 3 of the categories (being HS coaches we cannot challenge plays) in that.  The others are Pressure+Hits+Sacks made vs Pressure+hits+Sacks allowed; turnovers vs takeaways; rush yards v rush yards given up.

Guess what?

We're near the top of those 3 categories in Tomlin's 10 years too.

But those first 3 are at the top of this coaches list, because these are what he calls "back breakers".  Close game and you convert on a 4th, breaks the back of the defense and makes them question themselves.  Just marched all over the defense and got the 2pt conversion?  Opposing coach now is pressing because you're up 2 scores, not 1 in a single drive.  Challenges should be no duh; but take an incomplete and make it a TD, a turnover and get the ball back, getting that key first down.  That's backbreaking.

Yes there are things about Tomlin's coaching that leaves some things to be desired, but @FourThreeMafia and I are on the same page here....if you are going to fire Tomlin you best be bringing in someone you know is better, and who fits that bill that isn't Cowher, Gruden, or on someone elses sideline?

[warfelg]

13 minutes ago, Steeler Hitman said:

Could he be a little better with preparation versus lesser opponents? Sure.

I was talking with a fellow coach, who isn't a Steelers fan, and had him watch the Bears game.

We sat down to do some film study of the game (we typically do this in a bye week to see if we can add any wrinkles), and he turns off the game in the first 5 minutes and goes; even without knowing the score I could tell the Bears would win.  I asked him how he knew, and very simply he said:

Quote

That's the Steelers base defense and offense.  There was no game planning.  The Bears have things in there they never do.  

So I click over and put on Jags game.  5 minutes in, same thing, same reasoning.

Then I put on the Chiefs game, he didn't know the result yet.  5 minutes in and something different, he knew we would win.  Ditto for the Bengals game.  Both of these got the same reasoning:

Quote

That's not the Steelers base defense and offense.  Look at the packages.  Look who's in the game.  This is a gameplan for a specific game with wrinkles meant to throw off the opponent.  The defense is moving guys presnap.  The offense is putting guys in bunches and motion in ways to make the defense adjust.

 

Wow.  Someone who doesn't know us all that well is able to key in on that really quickly.  And kinda goes to my theory.  Against lesser teams Tomlin wants to line up and have talent beat talent.  He just wants to use the base and not give away anything else why could do.  

[SlevinKelevra]

i thought it flew well under the radar, but during the Bengals game, CBS put an info graphic on the screen that showed  Tomlin vs Marv Lewis back to 2010 (or whatever year Dalton took over as a starter).

 

IIRC, Tomlin had him edged by 1 win in the regular season.

 

Let's not go overboard on his coaching abilities just using win % please. Hell, see Switzer, Barry,  and McCarthy, Mike.

 

[43M]

14 hours ago, warfelg said:

I was talking with a fellow coach, who isn't a Steelers fan, and had him watch the Bears game.

We sat down to do some film study of the game (we typically do this in a bye week to see if we can add any wrinkles), and he turns off the game in the first 5 minutes and goes; even without knowing the score I could tell the Bears would win.  I asked him how he knew, and very simply he said:

So I click over and put on Jags game.  5 minutes in, same thing, same reasoning.

Then I put on the Chiefs game, he didn't know the result yet.  5 minutes in and something different, he knew we would win.  Ditto for the Bengals game.  Both of these got the same reasoning:

 

Wow.  Someone who doesn't know us all that well is able to key in on that really quickly.  And kinda goes to my theory.  Against lesser teams Tomlin wants to line up and have talent beat talent.  He just wants to use the base and not give away anything else why could do.  

Yeah...that definitely makes sense.

Although, with the Bengals game, our defense didnt look great early on.    In fairness, the Bengals offense was actually playing very well early on as opposed to our defense playing bad....but its clear our defense made nice adjustments at halftime and smothered the Bengals offense.    We need more of that aggressive gameplaning and tweaking.

[CKSteeler]

Considered making a separate thread for this, but it fits well enough here. Tomlin is a defensive coach. I think the far bigger issue is that he has a mediocre offensive mind as an OC. One he's apparently fine with. The bulk of the cap space is invested in this offense, and they are apparently ok with averaging about 20 points a game.

Quote

That has allowed them to play more conservatively on offense and virtually scrap that 30-point a game goal.

“I don’t think I ever stated that was my goal,” offensive coordinator Todd Haley said, “and when that was talked about, I think it was a few years ago. Every year it’s something different. No. 1, it’s win games. And as your entire team changes, I think you’re smart as offensive coaches to adjust what you do also.

“We got a great running back, a great line. It leaves a lot less risk out there. I’ll take that any time.”

...

“I can’t say that [is our identity] but I can’t say I’m not pleased with how we played,” Haley said of the past two games against Kansas City and Cincinnati.

...

“We’re winning games, I’m excited how our defense is playing and that affects some of the decisions we make.”

...

“Our defense is playing good football,’’ Haley said. “That can affect the way we do things and the decisions we make. This is a new year, new team, a bunch of new guys.”

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2017/10/26/pittsburgh-steelers-offense-ranking-leveon-bell-fantasy-antonio-brown-ben-roethlisberger/stories/201710260199

Everything about this article makes me sick to my stomach. Especially the last part about there being a bunch of new guys. No, Todd. You have more continuity on your offense than just about anyone in the league. There are teams out there with young QB's and far less heralded supporting casts running a more coherent offense than you and they still have top defenses to go with them. Todd's over here making excuses and pounding his chest after two games where his offense was sub-20% in the redzone. There's no killer instinct here. No drive to be great. There's not even recognition of the fact that they need to be better. It's a propaganda puff piece allowing Todd to explain his failures in a cheery way.

It's great that the defense is playing the way it is, but right now the offense is an embarrassment and there's no good excuses for it. It's a lack of detail, a lack of drive, a lack of identity. Everything but a lack of talent, really. If this was what they wanted to be, then they should have taken some of those dollars they invested in offense and used them to acquire more pieces on defense. Does anyone here really think that they're going to make it to the Super Bowl with this offense? This isn't the 2008 offense. That offense had real excuses for its issues, and at the least you trusted it to win close games for you. I can't even say that about the 2017 offense. In big spots, I basically expect it come up short.

If Tomlin isn't the guy to demand more from his offensive stars, then get an offensive coordinator who can.

[JLambert58]

30 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

Considered making a separate thread for this, but it fits well enough here. Tomlin is a defensive coach. I think the far bigger issue is that he has a mediocre offensive mind as an OC. One he's apparently fine with. The bulk of the cap space is invested in this offense, and they are apparently ok with averaging about 20 points a game.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2017/10/26/pittsburgh-steelers-offense-ranking-leveon-bell-fantasy-antonio-brown-ben-roethlisberger/stories/201710260199

Everything about this article makes me sick to my stomach. Especially the last part about there being a bunch of new guys. No, Todd. You have more continuity on your offense than just about anyone in the league. There are teams out there with young QB's and far less heralded supporting casts running a more coherent offense than you and they still have top defenses to go with them. Todd's over here making excuses and pounding his chest after two games where his offense was sub-20% in the redzone. There's no killer instinct here. No drive to be great. There's not even recognition of the fact that they need to be better. It's a propaganda puff piece allowing Todd to explain his failures in a cheery way.

It's great that the defense is playing the way it is, but right now the offense is an embarrassment and there's no good excuses for it. It's a lack of detail, a lack of drive, a lack of identity. Everything but a lack of talent, really. If this was what they wanted to be, then they should have taken some of those dollars they invested in offense and used them to acquire more pieces on defense. Does anyone here really think that they're going to make it to the Super Bowl with this offense? This isn't the 2008 offense. That offense had real excuses for its issues, and at the least you trusted it to win close games for you. I can't even say that about the 2017 offense. In big spots, I basically expect it come up short.

If Tomlin isn't the guy to demand more from his offensive stars, then get an offensive coordinator who can.

Obviously your concern about the offense is justified.  I am not a big fan of Haley, but I will say that he seems to have upped his game these last two weeks.  It looks like a step in the right direction.  If JuJu can become a bigger part of the offense ( a la Hines Ward) that will open up everything else.  Now that Bell and the OL are finally in rhythm, it's the lack of a reliable 2nd receiving threat that is really slowing down this offense imo.  (above and beyond a lack of imagination)

[warfelg]

4 minutes ago, JLambert58 said:

Obviously your concern about the offense is justified.  I am not a big fan of Haley, but I will say that he seems to have upped his game these last two weeks.  It looks like a step in the right direction.  If JuJu can become a bigger part of the offense ( a la Hines Ward) that will open up everything else.  Now that Bell and the OL are finally in rhythm, it's the lack of a reliable 2nd receiving threat that is really slowing down this offense imo.  (above and beyond a lack of imagination)

Yup I really thinking it wasn't the lack of a deep threat that held us back, but rater the lack of an option across from Brown that's a threat to do things.

[43M]

In terms of Haley, I wonder how much of his job security has to do with his daddy's ties to team.      Tomlin might not even be allowed to get rid of him.   

[3rivers]

2 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

In terms of Haley, I wonder how much of his job security has to do with his daddy's ties to team.      Tomlin might not even be allowed to get rid of him.   

there is always this potential. I still think there is the possibility  that they just try to win barely and as a result the O playcalling often is the best way to control this.  The D then can also fail to allow game to be closer - just sent this happen too much with tomlin. Losing to bad teams is one thing, but letting team get back into games really bothers me. 

Tomlin record speaks for itself, we just would like to have him correct a few things, but we are fans and not the FO.  What could be interesting is how he deals with all this BS that bryant is causing. If he can keep this team together and they stay healthy, I am looking forward to a rematch with the pats or anyone actually.