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2021 Defensive Thread


vegas492

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2 minutes ago, Isherwood said:

You’re right and I am overreacting, but I do think he and most of our defense are soft. Teams will beat us on the ground all year if they wish to 

I would never call and NFL team 'soft'. The reality is we do not invest in the defensive line, you know where you win the line of scrimmage. We've got Kenny Clark and a bunch of JAGS. Honestly, calling them JAGS is a bit insulting to real JAGS. 

Keke was terrible yesterday. He was where we were pining our hopes on anther player. We know what we have in Lowry and Lancaster, which isn't much. Slaton is a pup, but is the upside that great? I don't know just asking.

I do know, we aren't going to be able to fix that part of the equation and the only way to mitigate that is to jump up early on teams so they are forced to pass the ball. Week 3, against the 49ers, Shanahan is going to run it at us until we drop. I'd be shocked if Detroit didn't do the same. 

I don't see Joe Barry as a guy who can fix this **** either. 

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10 hours ago, Brit Pack said:

So the Smith's are no good, neither is Amos and Savage?

We played a team which started Ringo on DL and had no corners really during stretches of that game. And they made us look wank.

We have as much talent as pretty much any other team does, we just have no identity on defence.....

Where I agree with you is we have failed to invest in DL and ILB. We are pretty soft in the middle. Campbell looked very poor today.

Fans overrate their own players.  The hard truth is that the Smiths, Amos, and Amos are AVERAGE.  And while average isnt a bad thing, it is a bad thing when you're surrounded by below average

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4 minutes ago, HeresAGuy said:

Fans overrate their own players.  The hard truth is that the Smiths, Amos, and Amos are AVERAGE.  And while average isnt a bad thing, it is a bad thing when you're surrounded by below average

We have some above average talent on defense, and one elite defender in Alexander.  Outside of that, it's very average.  The thing is, no help is coming - they are who there are (coaching included), and that's what fans need to start wrapping their head around.

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3 minutes ago, Sasquatch said:

We have some above average talent on defense, and one elite defender in Alexander.  Outside of that, it's very average.  The thing is, no help is coming - they are who there are (coaching included), and that's what fans need to start wrapping their head around.

id even take it one up and say its very below average.  Id say there are 30 teams in the NFL with superior defenses to our own, and thats being generous.  Therefore, well below average.  And our elite "premadona" quarterback has been covering for the last decade of those failures on defense.  

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Just now, HeresAGuy said:

id even take it one up and say its very below average.  Id say there are 30 teams in the NFL with superior defenses to our own, and thats being generous.  Therefore, well below average.

Regardless of opinions of what level of "average" the overall unit is, the point is they are who they are.  They will sink and/or swim together this season.  Help is NOT likely coming.

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Just now, Sasquatch said:

Regardless of opinions of what level of "average" the overall unit is, the point is they are who they are.  They will sink and/or swim together this season.  Help is NOT likely coming.

Oh that I agree with.  Completely.  We are stuck unless we make a hail mary trade for an elite WR, then we can at least win games 54-48 on the regular.  Rodgers is going to have to........yet again.......carry these scrubs, just as he has the past ten years.  We've been drafting defensive players up the A for the past decade too, and that makes it drastically worse to stomach.  

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15 minutes ago, HeresAGuy said:

Oh that I agree with.  Completely.  We are stuck unless we make a hail mary trade for an elite WR, then we can at least win games 54-48 on the regular.  Rodgers is going to have to........yet again.......carry these scrubs, just as he has the past ten years.  We've been drafting defensive players up the A for the past decade too, and that makes it drastically worse to stomach.  

At this point, Rodgers can no longer carry this team - even if we added another elite WR (which we absolutely do not need).  Unless he cuts his damn hair and fires Shailene, Rodgers will remain hexed (joking, but not about the hair).  Rodgers was soooo slow to read and react yesterday, and when's the last time you heard him say "I didn't see the safety"?  The dude is way off his game right now, for whatever reason, and he can't carry this team, much less the greasy mop on his head at the moment.

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12 minutes ago, Sasquatch said:

At this point, Rodgers can no longer carry this team - even if we added another elite WR (which we absolutely do not need).  Unless he cuts his damn hair and fires Shailene, Rodgers will remain hexed (joking, but not about the hair).  Rodgers was soooo slow to read and react yesterday, and when's the last time you heard him say "I didn't see the safety"?  The dude is way off his game right now, for whatever reason, and he can't carry this team, much less the greasy mop on his head at the moment.

You guys know Rodgers is gonna go for 300 and 4 td's next week in a Packers victory, right?  

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3 minutes ago, {Family Ghost} said:

You guys know Rodgers is gonna go for 300 and 4 td's next week in a Packers victory, right?  

Yes, and I know we’ll bow out in the playoffs in the same way we always have. The Packers destroying a weak divisional opponent after being embarrassed by a real contender? Maybe I’m spoiled, but it does nothing for me anymore. Lather, rinse, repeat. 

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13 minutes ago, {Family Ghost} said:

You guys know Rodgers is gonna go for 300 and 4 td's next week in a Packers victory, right?  

And therein lies the problem that has existed for the last 10 years. The Packers have feasted on a dismal NFC North to make the stats look respectable, but against winning teams / playoff teams they sh*t the bed. 

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51 minutes ago, HeresAGuy said:

Fans overrate their own players.  The hard truth is that the Smiths, Amos, and Amos are AVERAGE.  And while average isnt a bad thing, it is a bad thing when you're surrounded by below average

Okay convince me the Saints have a signficantly better level of talent than we do!

Looking at the Saints defence their front 7 starters are the following:
Davenport - career 13 sacks
Cam Jordan - stud but 32 years old, 1 x First Team All Pro, 6 x Pro Bowls
Ringo - 17 career tackles and 1.5 sacks
Tuttle - career 48 tackles and 2 sacks
Kwon - good player often injured, 1 x Pro Bowl
Demario - stud, 1 x First Team All Pro
Ellis - 3 years in the league 6 total tackles

We got:
Kenny - Good not great, 1 x Pro Bowl
Lowry - 5 year pro, 172 tackles, 10 sacks
Kinsley Keke - 33 tackles, 4 sacks 
P Smith - 270 tackles, 40.5 sacks
Z Smith - stud - 227 tackles, 44.5 sacks, 2 x pro bowls
Barnes - 88 tackles, 1 sack
Campbell - 468 tackles, 7.5 sacks

They play 4-3 and we play 3-4.  So on paper here at worst we are a wash with the Saints. Their DT's have little to no experience and are at best similar level to Lowry and Keke but we have the extra DT in Clark who is a good player. I would easily take P.Smith over Davenport who in four years has failed to do much. Cam Jordan and Z.Smith are both studs and I would prefer Z.Smith for his age and he was elite in 2019 but can understand someone preferring Cam. No one comes close to Damario or Kwon for that matter on our team. So pretty balanced.

Secondary Saints got:
Latimore - Stud
Trufant - Washed up
Jenkins - Former stud, now 33, 1 x First Team All Pro, 3 x Pro Bowls 
Williams - Good player

We got:
Jaire - Super stud
Amos - Good player
Savage - Emerging player
King - Toast

Again it is pretty much a wash. Jaire and Latimore two of the best young corners and I would slightly edge Jaire. Jenkins is a good player but on the downside and Savage is an emerging player on the upside. King and Trufant are both pretty much trash and Williams is the slightly better safety over Amos. Even if you give the Saints the edge here or overall we are not devoid of talent. If we went through the rest of the league you'l lfind we got talent at every level of the team and like other teams we have holes at every level too.

The issue with this team defence is predominatly identity, scheme and leadership, not a lack of talent. Their is nothing creative in terms of how we attack teams, we look slow and confused. We allow teams to run at us at will, we haven't got ideas on how to generate pressure and we have brain farts at the back end. It's one game but colour me unimpressed with Barry. I hope to be proven wrong but I don't see it.

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