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Will Baker Mayfield cement himself as a top-10 QB this year?


WizeGuy

Will Baker cement himself as a top-10 QB this year?  

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  1. 1. What say you?



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4 hours ago, NYRaider said:

To be fair I'm not a huge Carr fan either, I just think he's slightly better than Baker but neither is a top 10 QB. 

Im actually higher on Baker, if only because he has more untapped potential at this point.

However, I do agree with you that Baker has yet to do anything that puts him notably above Carr.

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18 minutes ago, Forge said:

Everyone has ugly plays. Especially in that tier. Hope is that Baker isn't doing stupid stuff in year 7 or 8 like that if course, but we don't know. 

Well thats basically my point, people are trying to compare Baker Mayfield's mistakes in year 3 to Derek Carrs mistakes in year 8. 

One led their team to a playoff win in year 3. One has played 8 years and has never even willed his team to a wildcard. End of story.

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14 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

Well thats basically my point, people are trying to compare Baker Mayfield's mistakes in year 3 to Derek Carrs mistakes in year 8. 

One led their team to a playoff win in year 3. One has played 8 years and has never even willed his team to a wildcard. End of story.

QB winz isn't really going to garner a whole lot of points with most people. Jimmy g "led" his team to a super bowl in his first 30 games. Nick foles led his team to a super bowl win. 

Guys like that are pretty reliant on what is around them. 

Also, Carr was 12-3 in his third year before getting hurt. The raiders lost in the wild card round but carr didn't play. While it's true he didn't lead them to a playoff victory, we can't say for sure he wouldn't have. Spiritually, a bit of a week argument to act like Baker has substantially surpassed carr in some way or manner solely because of his win last year

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15 minutes ago, Forge said:

QB winz isn't really going to garner a whole lot of points with most people. Jimmy g "led" his team to a super bowl in his first 30 games. Nick foles led his team to a super bowl win. 

Guys like that are pretty reliant on what is around them. 

 

Depends on the argument you want to make. Do you say the same thing about Rodgers, Wilson and Brady when having the same argument? Or do you just say they are a good QB and thats why their team wins? Discrediting wins for a QB seems awfully subjective.

Im not arguing that Baker is a 'elite' QB in the top 5. However, I will argue that Baker Mayfield has been a wildly more successful in 3 years than Derek Carr has been in 8 years. Thats not really my opinion, thats more of a fact.

Baker Mayfield inherited a 1-31 team and led the Browns to 23-22 record in 3 years while breaking the rookie TD record in only 13 games. He has also been to and won a playoff game which is something Carr has never done. Derek Carr has a 48-63 record as a starting QB. I understand that surrounding talent matters, but if your a good enough QB--you will win games.

 

Edited by AkronsWitness
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14 minutes ago, AteBoxx said:

Okay well then going .500 with a stacked roster should tell you something

Who has a stacked roster? The Browns defense in 2020 gave up the 2nd most yards in the NFL and were 21st in points given up. They also according to PFF dont even have a top 10 WR unit even with OBJ who didnt play last year, so whose roster is stacked? Its cant be the Browns.

Baker Mayfield was playing with a bottom 10 defense, a rookie HC, no Odell Beckham JR and in the hardest division in the NFL and STILL went to the playoffs and won a game *without his HC and 1/2 the roster being in Covid protocol*

Miss me with ALL of the Derek Carr nonsense.

i-got-time-today-i-have-nothing-to-do.gi

Edited by AkronsWitness
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didn't feel like quoting or replying directly to anyone, there were easily 15 different posts I could have elected to go with. 

Nick Chubb averaged 10 yards per rush in the 4th quarter of games last year. People will easily look at Mayfield's stats and use them against his actual play, but there isn't a coach in the league that would turn down handing the ball to a back getting that many YPC late in the game. People almost hold it against Mayfield that he has an excellent RB, a great running game, and that they don't need him, at least as of yet, to throw the ball 40 times a game. If Baker had Buffalo's running game, you don't think he would be throwing more, and have more opportunities to inflate his passing #'s? 

Same thing with the game last week. Guy completed 75% of his passes, 321 yards, 11.5 yards per attempt, but because the box score at the end of the game showed 0 passing TD's and 1 INT, everyone that didn't watch the game went ahead and put him in the "average" QB ranking. Damnit Baker, why do you have to have running backs that score touchdowns in the redzone! 

Here's the reality of it all. Had Baker had the same exact game, but those 3 rushing td's ended up being passing TD's, they could have still lost the game and I bet 75% of the Baker haters would have said "wow, 75%, 300+ yards, 3 td's, man what a great game". I'm sure there are a few of y'all in here that will try and profess that you'd still flame him for throwing the int on the play where he got tripped up by the safety, but what I am saying is accurate. 

As far as last year goes, Week 1 was against the Ravens in Baltimore, Baker operating his 4th offense in 3 years. The offense struggled in their two games immediately after OBJ's ACL tear, that's when they finally reincorporated Rashard Higgins back into a role offensively. We also played back to back games against the Raiders and then Houston at home with some of the worst conditions you could imagine outside of a blizzard. Just for context, Carr threw for 111 yards in their game against us, Deshaun threw for 163 on 30 attempts. There was actually a weather delay due to high winds in that Texans game. Then we get to week 16, the game against the Jets, where our entire WR team was out due to COVID protocols. We couldn't run the ball because the Jets played the entire game focused on shutting down the run. Ja'marcus Bradley was our #1 receiver for the game. 

 

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24 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

 

Depends on the argument you want to make. Do you say the same thing about Rodgers, Wilson and Brady when having the same argument? Or do you just say they are a good QB and thats why their team wins? Discrediting wins for a QB seems awfully subjective--especially when there is a massive slurp fest for young QBs like Justin Herbert on here and what he did last year.

Im not arguing that Baker is a 'elite' QB in the top 5. However, I will argue that Baker Mayfield has been a wildly more successful in 3 years than Derek Carr has been in 8 years.

Baker Mayfield inherited a 1-31 team and led the Browns to 23-22 record in 3 years while breaking the rookie TD record in only 13 games. He has also been to and won a playoff game which is something Carr has never done. Derek Carr has a 48-63 record as a starting QB. I understand that surrounding talent matters, but if your a good enough QB--you will win games.

 

It can be subjective, absolutely. The stigma usually goes away with a sample size of the qb being the reason for the wins. Those guys are often the reason those teams win. 

Jimmy G is one of 6 active starting QBs who has a winning record against winning teams I believe, and has one of the best winning percentages. Does that change the way you think about him? Is he the reason for that record? Some games, sure... But on the whole? Jared Goff  went through a 24-7 stretch and Alex Smith was one of the winningest QBs of the 2010s. Are those guys the reason for that winning record, do you think? On the flip side, Rodgers has historically been awful against winning teams record wise, but we don't view that as a major issue in evaluating his play.

Carr was 22-25 his first three years. I'd argue his third year could be considered better than baker's. He won a playoff game, Carr got hurt before his. The rookie td thing is cool, but ultimately meaningless. After three years, I don't think the difference is as big as you're making it out to be. Yeah, Baker is maybe a little more accomplished in terms of random things, but was he a substantially better player? Eh... Not so sure it's that big of a difference. I like bakers upside more and would hope that he continues to elevate his game. Carr kind of backslid when the team got worse. 

People are really kind of retconning Carr's 2016. People considered him a legit MVP candidate for a good chunk of the year. 

 

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11 minutes ago, Forge said:

It can be subjective, absolutely. The stigma usually goes away with a sample size of the qb being the reason for the wins. Those guys are often the reason those teams win. 

Jimmy G is one of 6 active starting QBs who has a winning record against winning teams. Does that change the way you think about him? Jared Goff  went through a 24-7 stretch and Alex Smith was one of the winningest QBs of the 2010s. Are those guys the reason for that winning record, do you think? On the flip side, Rodgers has historically been awful against winning teams record wise, but we don't view that as a major issue in evaluating his play.

Carr was 22-25 his first three years. I'd argue his third year could be considered better than baker's. He won a playoff game, Carr got hurt before his. The rookie td thing is cool, but ultimately meaningless. After three years, I don't think the difference is as big as you're making it out to be. Yeah, Baker is maybe a little more accomplished in terms of random things, but was he a substantially better player? Eh... Not so sure it's that big of a difference. 

 

To which again, some are trying to compare 8 years of Carr to 3 years of Baker and draw a definitive line in the sand of whose better. Baker Mayfield took a 1-31 team to the playoffs inside 3 years in the hardest division in football. Derek Carr is in year 8 trying to get his team to their first wildcard. 

If your a good QB, in 8 years, no matter how bad your surrounding team is---you will lead them to AT LEAST a single wildcard birth.

Edited by AkronsWitness
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