Wheel of Time Season 2 (Sept 1 Amazon Prime)

[Woz]

On 11/22/2021 at 7:05 PM, Deadpulse said:

Alright, for once I am not the super nerd on a property. I came in completely blind on this IP and these are my initial thoughts on the first 3 episodes

A maybe-sorta-kinda-super nerd will respond, if you don't mind

On 11/22/2021 at 7:05 PM, Deadpulse said:

- The world building is... boring and small. I still dont feel like I know this world.

I feel like this is a fair criticism. I think what the writers are doing is trying to world build for the Two Rivers Five (Egwene, Matt, Nynaeve, Perrin, and Rand) alongside the audience. If that's the goal, I think it's a bit ham-handed since while Two Rivers is somewhat of a backwater, they're not completely ignorant. For instance, Perrin and Egwene would know who and what the Tinkers are, even if they came with a lot of gossip/falsehoods about the Tu'athan.

On 11/22/2021 at 7:05 PM, Deadpulse said:

These peeps in white are who exactly?

They are

Spoiler

The Children of the Light. Sometimes derogatory referred to as the Whitecloaks, though never to their face.

Their main purpose is to find (and kill) all Darkfriends (humans that voluntarily join the Dark One in his battle). Because they wield the One Power, the Children view as Aes Sedai as Darkfriends.

Think of them as the Inquisition turned into a military force. They would be akin to the Faith Militant from Game of Thrones.

 

On 11/22/2021 at 7:05 PM, Deadpulse said:

- I dont like most of these characters yet. Rand is hot and cold. Perrin has anger issues? Like I am assuming that goes somewhere but right now it just makes him one dimensional. Egwene is all over the place. I like Matt though. More Matt. 

I hope you got a slightly better sense of the Aes Sedai from episode 4 and/or the articles others have posted describing them.

On 11/22/2021 at 7:05 PM, Deadpulse said:

- I dont like most of these characters yet. Rand is hot and cold. Perrin has anger issues? Like I am assuming that goes somewhere but right now it just makes him one dimensional. Egwene is all over the place. I like Matt though. More Matt. 

I feel like they've done a fair amount of fan service for the book readers with the characters to the detriment of people coming in cold. I see things in the hints and changes and have something to compare against/say "ah, I see what they're hinting at." You're like "what the hell?"

From my perspective as a book reader, I feel like they have done a better job of fleshing out the characters in episodes 3 and 4. Any thoughts post episode 4?

On 11/22/2021 at 7:05 PM, Deadpulse said:

- I am unsure as to why I care what is going on. Like so what if this wheel is broken? How commonplace is reincarnation? Like the little village festival cleared up that its common belief but this whole thing makes it seemed more confirmed. How do we know? Do people often find their departed in others?

- What exactly makes this Dark One bad outside of the ominous and obvious bad guy name?

I think @Xenos said it best when they said:

On 11/22/2021 at 4:54 PM, Xenos said:

I think they should have cut out all the crazy voiceover narration in the first episode and spent more time with the characters in Two Rivers. Certain things could have be explained more in the following episodes like a story in the same way that The Fall of Manetheren was explained, which I thought was a very effective method of monologuing without actually sounding like you’re monologuing.

I have yet to watch the animated shorts (thank you Xenos for even calling those out ... completely missed them), but I hope those also help explain the world better. That's my next task. If I have anything that may help on that front, I'll try to bring it up.

The short version is that the idea of the Wheel and the Dark One is sort of the main religious tenet for most of this world. The concept of rebirth is central to most of the faiths as is battling the Dark One.

Keep in mind that the minions of the Dark One (Trollocs, Fades, etc.) do roam the world doing what they did to the Two Rivers, so it's not like Dark One just has a bad PR team.

On 11/22/2021 at 7:05 PM, Deadpulse said:

- The action in the first episode was good, but its gone now. Now its just running from those same enemies, running from wolves, running from... symbiotes that dust you? Lot's of running. Not really fun to watch. 

- No interesting side characters? I am trying very hard NOT to compare this to GoT, but come on it will be. One of the things that made people come back week after week in GoT is that there were oodles of fully fleshed out and relatable side characters to fall in love with and root for.

There is a certain important character outside of the Five (from Baerleon, for the book readers) who hasn't been introduced.

Given how they've changed the series from the books (the apparent main theme of season 1), I sort of understand why that character is not introduced, but I'm kind of grumpy about it.

To be fair to the writers, a good chunk of the first book is the Five running.

The other character count blossoms in the back half of the first book and beyond. This is one of the major complaints for some who have read the books.

[Deadpulse]

4 minutes ago, Woz said:

I have yet to watch the animated shorts (thank you Xenos for even calling those out ... completely missed them), but I hope those also help explain the world better. That's my next task. If I have anything that may help on that front, I'll try to bring it up.

HATE the idea of a show not standing on its own legs. If you need to watch animated shorts in order to fully understand the show thats a big fat turd on the show. I am not necessarily saying that is the case here, but to say "watch the animated shorts" is more a further indictment on the show than anything else. 

6 minutes ago, Woz said:

Any thoughts post episode 4?

just gonna sum up my response to the rest of your post here.

Episode 4 is by far the best one. Gave us some good action, the plot seemed to actually move, and Matt and Rand are shown to be a bit capable. They used that fake Dragon really well to explain the anti-men sentiment and how the world operates a bit better. 

I think my biggest remaining gripe so far is that we have FIVE almost helpless characters that need protection. Its just too many to fret over and it becomes a big who cares from me. I'd like to see them show more in terms of ability, because right now they just feel like mcguffins. 

[Woz]

On 11/23/2021 at 1:49 PM, THE DUKE said:

In episode 3, how does the bar wench who is somehow "aligned with the dark" (lol) know the description, name, and number of people being searched for where two of them randomly show up in her shop? Did I somehow miss the internet and her facetiming with Lord Voldemort about who they were looking for? Her Facebook stalking Rand to get his details and that he was in love with the frosty wind chick? I'm going to need a better explanation than "aligned with the dark".

Main difference is Voldermort, for all his power, was human. The Dark One is essentially this world's evil god. So, just a bit more power at its disposal.

On 11/23/2021 at 1:49 PM, THE DUKE said:

The Trollochs or whatever they are called I literally lol'd when they hit the screen their design and movements were that bad. And we don't really know why they are being led by snaggletooth Lord Voldemort other than that it can control dark things. 

Chuckling at "snaggletooth Lord Voldemort" ... that's a great description! I mean that!

Spoiler

For the record, a Fade is effectively like a E-4/E-5 (Corporal/Sargent) or O-3 (Captain) in the army. Maybe gives you a sense of the power difference?

On 11/23/2021 at 1:49 PM, THE DUKE said:

I'm kind of with the people saying "you probably shouldn't trust the man hating witches cult that throws around their powers willy nilly"

This is one of the places that I think the writers kind of screwed up.

There is distrust amongst the common folk towards the Aes Sedai; I mean, if you encountered someone who can call down lightning or throw fireballs, you might look at them askance as well. However, only the Red Ajah would be considered "man hating." Given that was the first introduction the audience had (as well as the intro with Moraine), it kind of set the tone for the whole group.

Has your opinion changed after episode 4? I feel like they started to actually explain the Aes Sedai much better there.

On 11/23/2021 at 1:49 PM, THE DUKE said:

Despite all my criticisms above, I think it can get better, I see the potential.  Hopefully the execution gets a little better and we get better explanations than......hey, it's magic.

What do you think now?

[Woz]

On 11/26/2021 at 3:08 PM, SMashMouthMike said:

I’m glad I haven’t read the books considering how mad some of the book followers are getting at the ending of episode 4, and how much this show apparently departs from the author’s work.

Really? My one big complaint relative to Nynaeve so far is that they hadn't shown her strength. Being named a Wisdom (the second most powerful person in town, and arguably, #1) at her young age wasn't just a fluke. She is strong-willed and powerful. If you are going to make the point, that was certainly one way to do it and only requiring about 30-60 seconds of screen time.

On 11/26/2021 at 3:08 PM, SMashMouthMike said:

Overall I’m enjoying it, but can see both of why some of the book followers are not, and why some viewers/critics might be put off by all the ‘magic’.

I agree with @Tk3: this is high fantasy. Magic (and lots of it) comes with the territory.

LotR had plenty of it. If they are comparing it to GoT, then okay yes, there's a lot but Martin is more interested in the political machination side of the equation ("What if there dragons during the War of the Roses?").

[Woz]

On 11/26/2021 at 9:13 PM, Matts4313 said:

Oh thats annoying. It doesnt show up on Roku, my primary watching device. It does show up on my laptop though. 

Thanks for this tip, Matts. I was hunting around on my Roku wondering wtf they were.

For those with Roku, they do have a bunch of little trivia boxes that describe stuff if you want to spend a fair amount of time reading a bunch of index cards.

That to me feels like a poor design choice by Amazon.

[Tk3]

40 minutes ago, Woz said:

A maybe-sorta-kinda-super nerd will respond, if you don't mind

I feel like this is a fair criticism. I think what the writers are doing is trying to world build for the Two Rivers Five (Egwene, Matt, Nynaeve, Perrin, and Rand) alongside the audience. If that's the goal, I think it's a bit ham-handed since while Two Rivers is somewhat of a backwater, they're not completely ignorant. For instance, Perrin and Egwene would know who and what the Tinkers are, even if they came with a lot of gossip/falsehoods about the Tu'athan.

They are

  Reveal hidden contents

The Children of the Light. Sometimes derogatory referred to as the Whitecloaks, though never to their face.

Their main purpose is to find (and kill) all Darkfriends (humans that voluntarily join the Dark One in his battle). Because they wield the One Power, the Children view as Aes Sedai as Darkfriends.

Think of them as the Inquisition turned into a military force. They would be akin to the Faith Militant from Game of Thrones.

 

I hope you got a slightly better sense of the Aes Sedai from episode 4 and/or the articles others have posted describing them.

I feel like they've done a fair amount of fan service for the book readers with the characters to the detriment of people coming in cold. I see things in the hints and changes and have something to compare against/say "ah, I see what they're hinting at." You're like "what the hell?"

From my perspective as a book reader, I feel like they have done a better job of fleshing out the characters in episodes 3 and 4. Any thoughts post episode 4?

I think @Xenos said it best when they said:

I have yet to watch the animated shorts (thank you Xenos for even calling those out ... completely missed them), but I hope those also help explain the world better. That's my next task. If I have anything that may help on that front, I'll try to bring it up.

The short version is that the idea of the Wheel and the Dark One is sort of the main religious tenet for most of this world. The concept of rebirth is central to most of the faiths as is battling the Dark One.

Keep in mind that the minions of the Dark One (Trollocs, Fades, etc.) do roam the world doing what they did to the Two Rivers, so it's not like Dark One just has a bad PR team.

There is a certain important character outside of the Five (from Baerleon, for the book readers) who hasn't been introduced.

Given how they've changed the series from the books (the apparent main theme of season 1), I sort of understand why that character is not introduced, but I'm kind of grumpy about it.

To be fair to the writers, a good chunk of the first book is the Five running.

The other character count blossoms in the back half of the first book and beyond. This is one of the major complaints for some who have read the books.

That was quite surprising to me as well - although I think it's sort of like Tom where it would have been too many people at once and will rope them in a little later... I feel like I quit the books before that person really became important, but you could tell they would be

I'm pretty sure I also read that the other big character who is introduced pretty briefly (after the one falls over the wall) won't be introduced until season 2 also

So they are playing with timelines a little bit, but think it can be done well

[Xenos]

42 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

HATE the idea of a show not standing on its own legs. If you need to watch animated shorts in order to fully understand the show thats a big fat turd on the show. I am not necessarily saying that is the case here, but to say "watch the animated shorts" is more a further indictment on the show than anything else. 

just gonna sum up my response to the rest of your post here.

Episode 4 is by far the best one. Gave us some good action, the plot seemed to actually move, and Matt and Rand are shown to be a bit capable. They used that fake Dragon really well to explain the anti-men sentiment and how the world operates a bit better. 

I think my biggest remaining gripe so far is that we have FIVE almost helpless characters that need protection. Its just too many to fret over and it becomes a big who cares from me. I'd like to see them show more in terms of ability, because right now they just feel like mcguffins. 

I think the animated shorts, which are only two minutes long, are just there if you want more. They are nice little tidbits that aren’t really necessary. More like Easter Eggs. I think the Fall of Manetheren was done well in the show also.

[Woz]

On 11/26/2021 at 10:31 PM, Matts4313 said:

Okay so I came into this series completely blind - so I am going to give my general feedback on the story. That said, after watching the first 3 episodes I did a bunch of research, so because of that I am going to spoiler my comments.

  Reveal hidden contents

First thing - it only took about halfway through the first episode for me to go "ya, Anakin dude is going to be the super hero". I really wish I had not confirmed that online, because episode 4 would have mind-f'd me. 

 

Here is my complaint: I feel like I was extremely confused in terms of scale when I finished the first 3 episodes. How big is the world? How immediately dangerous is the enemy (aside from typical fantasy trope)? I kinda understood that magic came from the one power, but outside of that, magic was screwing with me. 

1. What did magic allow them to do exactly? In the battle episode it kinda looked like it just allowed them to throw rocks. Not really that big of a deal. But then you see her healing people and go "wait, there is more to this".

2. How many people could use magic?

3. WTH was with all the different names that all seemed to mean "magic"? One, Light, Wisdom, Listener, etc

4. The dynamics of how magic worked in general

 

Now that the complaints are out of the way - clearly the story was intriguing enough that I invested extra time in learning. So thats obviously a huge plus. I do think the production value is very good - but its clearly not GOT level. Then again, most Amazon series seem just a notch or two below HBO. The only one that breaks that mold, imo, is Carnival Row which could absolutely be a HBO show. 

 

I dont know how the characters are supposed to be like - obviously as I came in blind - so all I can say is that I think the acting has been top notch. Especially the big fella (Perrain? is that how its spelled?), ive loved his parts. I read in this thread he wasnt supposed to be married to that chick at the start; I gotta tell you - its the best sub plot of the series so far. I dont know what to say to you book readers, I absolutely love that its haunting him. You really feel for the big guy and his struggle. 

Speaking of not calling that guy by his name - this series is going to suffer the same thing that all hi-fantasy does. The names are too weird and too hard to remember. I remember Rand and Mat; the other 3 I would have to look up spelling. That sucks. One of the nice things of GoT Jon, Jaime, Cersei, Dany, all very easy to remember. They are short and kinda common-ish. The 5th girl, black, uses the amazing power to heal Lan (another easy to remember) - - I will never be able to spell her name. We need a shorthand. 

 

• The people of light, I am pretty sure you guys are calling them White Cloaks, need some more screen time. Because Amazon did a great job introducing them to us; now I want more. They are intriguing. 
• I thought the monsters were very cool. I know they come from the "dark" guy (Dark God?, Satan?), but is it like LOTR where they are created out of dirt or whatever? Or do they procreate and have lil monsters?  
• From my reading I quickly realized that the dagger was one of the trinkets/artifacts that give you super magic, but I am a little confused on how those artifacts are made and imbued with powers?
• Part of my read up included the fact that Rand has 3 wives. We saw a little bit of polygamy in episode 4; but its going to be interesting to see how that plays out because its clear he and the Indian lady (Ewjean?) are both madly in love. Girl number 5 scoffed at the 3 going into the tent, so clearly its not widely accepted that people can have multiple partners. 
• I feel like Logain should have been in more than just 1 episode before they neutered him. His character was done really well. I would have like to seen his power/army fleshed out more before they basically killed him off.  

Those are my initial thoughts. They are a lot. I didnt proof read all that yet - its kinda just raw vomiting all my takeaways. 

I'm not going to answer all of your points, just some of them that I feel would give some background info

For those who haven't read Matts stuff, BE CAREFUL as he touches on some spoilers in his post. I moved the questions I'm answering into my spoiler tags. While I don't think my answers reveal too much (I try to use the show itself or the animated shorts as references), I'm going to keep them in spoiler tags just to be consistent.

My answers do assume you have seen through episode 4. You've been warned.

Q1 (size)

Spoiler

"How big is the world?"

If you take a look at the show page on a computer (not Roku) and click on Explore, you'll see a map of the continent. Unfortunately, the map doesn't have a scale reference. Best I can do is point to the one mountain in the middle of the continent (the Dragonmount) and say its referenced as several miles tall.

If you look closely, you can see other kingdoms named on the map. Figure it s a semi-feudal society with those groups as how much territory the various kingdoms can keep. Also note that two nice wall of mountains to the north and the east. Those are boundaries as well of this continent.

Q2 (enemy)

Spoiler

"How immediately dangerous is the enemy (aside from typical fantasy trope)?"

As I said, the Dark One is effectively the world's evil god. If you watch the first animated short (as well as the first episode voice over), you'll see/hear that the Dark One was imprisoned but in doing so caused the male side of the One Power to be tainted making all male wielders go insane. So, it has a metric ton of power. It is also trapped.

So immediate danger? Perhaps not. If he gets loose? "That would be bad." Is it completely harmless? Obviously not since it has agents to do its bidding all over the place.

Q3 (limits)

Spoiler

"What did magic allow them to do exactly?"

They may get more into what the One Power can and cannot do down the line (there are specialties that make some better at certain things than others). Sufficed to say, it is effectively bound only by the Aes Sedai's own ability to channel energy as well as specializations. They hinted at what it means if you exceed that limit in the battle between Moraine/Liandrin vs. Logain, when Liandrin started glowing.

There's also the ability (shown at the the end when they "gentled" Logain) for Aes Sedai to team up and magnify their powers by sharing their pools.

Q4 (numbers)

Spoiler

"How many people could use magic?"

In episode 2(?), when Moraine and Egwene were talking about "what do you call it / we call it listening to the wind," a fair number of women can touch the One Power in some way, shape, or form. However, to be trained as an Aes Sedai is a grueling task and not everyone is granted a chance (see Nynaeve's comment to Moraine about her adoptive mother was turned away).

Men? Not nearly as many in no small part because of the Reds as well as the attached stigma to being a male channeler. Thom's conversation about his nephew Owyn points out that he knows what it means to be a man who can channel; some don't last long enough for the Reds to catch them, others take their own lives to avoid causing their families disaster.

While they never go into numbers in the books, it's rare for women to be able to touch One Power at all. Rough guessing here, maybe 1 in 1000 or 1 in 10000? That's just being able to do anything. Actually having the oomph to do something powerful like the Aes Sedai? Probably 1 in 10000 in out of the group who can actually channel. So, there are a number of Sisters on the continent, but it's not like they are numerous.

Q5 (names)

Spoiler

"WTH was with all the different names that all seemed to mean "magic"? One, Light, Wisdom, Listener, etc"

Why do we have different names for sandwiches on a long loaf of bread? Is it a sub, grinder, hoagie, or po'boy?

Regional differences/dialects.

Regarding Perrin

Spoiler

At first, I was upset about him being married. However, they brought forth his central struggle very quickly by doing so. Yes, they sort of "fridged" his wife to do so, but she was likely a Darkfriend (but he didn't know that). Seeing how they want to develop him, I understand the point. It also adds depth to later interactions as well that were more irritating in the books.

Regarding the names

Spoiler

"this series is going to suffer the same thing that all hi-fantasy does. The names are too weird and too hard to remember."

Unfortunately, yes, this is going to be a problem. When you're reading, you see the name over and over again, but on the show, it's going to be a challenge. Also, it's not going to get any easier as they add more characters (and they're coming, though given the pacing, perhaps not until Season 2)

A quick summary of how to spell names of characters you are going to want to reference regularly

Two Rivers Five (along with their full names, just because I am a book nerd)

• Egwene (Egwene al'Vere)
• Mat (Matrim Cauthon)
• Nynaeve (Nynaeve al'Meara)
• Perrin (Perrin Aybara)
• Rand (Rand Al'Thor) 

Aes Sedai and Warders

• Primary ones you'll need to know
  • Moraine (Moiraine Aes Sedai (nee Moraine Damodred))
  • Lan (al'Lan Mandragoran)
• Ones referenced in episode 4 who will likely return
  • The red sister: Liandrin (Liandrin Aes Sedai (nee Liandrin Guirale))
  • The (surviving) green sister: Alanna (Alanna Aes Sedai (nee Alanna Mosvani))
  • Alanna's warders are somewhat interchangeable, I don't even remember their names

 

Book nerd side note: The Aes Sedai give up their family names when they become the full members (also referred to in the first short as "taking the shawl"). Yes, it is sort of like in Game of Thrones when you went to the Wall. It also doesn't always mean they fully give up.

 

[Woz]

On 11/27/2021 at 12:36 PM, Oregon Ducks said:

On 11/27/2021 at 11:57 AM, SMashMouthMike said:

So we are getting a different Mat actor for seasons beyond season 2 or?

That would be a shame cause he seems to hitting his stride with that character. 

Yeah, Barney Harris has been great but Mat was recast for season 2. No definiteve reason was given and he’s off social media and hasn’t popped up in any other productions. He seemed kinda erratic on social media and many speculate that he was dealing with some issues.

The guy they recast him seems like a good fit, though. Definitely had some of the same vibe.

Given the pacing of the show so far, it looks like the switchover is going to happen at the point I referenced before it aired. It will likely fit thematically even if it wasn't planned for originally.

[Matts4313]

18 minutes ago, Woz said:

I'm not going to answer all of your points, just some of them that I feel would give some background info

For those who haven't read Matts stuff, BE CAREFUL as he touches on some spoilers in his post. I moved the questions I'm answering into my spoiler tags. While I don't think my answers reveal too much (I try to use the show itself or the animated shorts as references), I'm going to keep them in spoiler tags just to be consistent.

My answers do assume you have seen through episode 4. You've been warned.

Q1 (size)

  Hide contents

"How big is the world?"

If you take a look at the show page on a computer (not Roku) and click on Explore, you'll see a map of the continent. Unfortunately, the map doesn't have a scale reference. Best I can do is point to the one mountain in the middle of the continent (the Dragonmount) and say its referenced as several miles tall.

If you look closely, you can see other kingdoms named on the map. Figure it s a semi-feudal society with those groups as how much territory the various kingdoms can keep. Also note that two nice wall of mountains to the north and the east. Those are boundaries as well of this continent.

Q2 (enemy)

  Hide contents

"How immediately dangerous is the enemy (aside from typical fantasy trope)?"

As I said, the Dark One is effectively the world's evil god. If you watch the first animated short (as well as the first episode voice over), you'll see/hear that the Dark One was imprisoned but in doing so caused the male side of the One Power to be tainted making all male wielders go insane. So, it has a metric ton of power. It is also trapped.

So immediate danger? Perhaps not. If he gets loose? "That would be bad." Is it completely harmless? Obviously not since it has agents to do its bidding all over the place.

Q3 (limits)

  Hide contents

"What did magic allow them to do exactly?"

They may get more into what the One Power can and cannot do down the line (there are specialties that make some better at certain things than others). Sufficed to say, it is effectively bound only by the Aes Sedai's own ability to channel energy as well as specializations. They hinted at what it means if you exceed that limit in the battle between Moraine/Liandrin vs. Logain, when Liandrin started glowing.

There's also the ability (shown at the the end when they "gentled" Logain) for Aes Sedai to team up and magnify their powers by sharing their pools.

Q4 (numbers)

  Hide contents

"How many people could use magic?"

In episode 2(?), when Moraine and Egwene were talking about "what do you call it / we call it listening to the wind," a fair number of women can touch the One Power in some way, shape, or form. However, to be trained as an Aes Sedai is a grueling task and not everyone is granted a chance (see Nynaeve's comment to Moraine about her adoptive mother was turned away).

Men? Not nearly as many in no small part because of the Reds as well as the attached stigma to being a male channeler. Thom's conversation about his nephew Owyn points out that he knows what it means to be a man who can channel; some don't last long enough for the Reds to catch them, others take their own lives to avoid causing their families disaster.

While they never go into numbers in the books, it's rare for women to be able to touch One Power at all. Rough guessing here, maybe 1 in 1000 or 1 in 10000? That's just being able to do anything. Actually having the oomph to do something powerful like the Aes Sedai? Probably 1 in 10000 in out of the group who can actually channel. So, there are a number of Sisters on the continent, but it's not like they are numerous.

Q5 (names)

  Hide contents

"WTH was with all the different names that all seemed to mean "magic"? One, Light, Wisdom, Listener, etc"

Why do we have different names for sandwiches on a long loaf of bread? Is it a sub, grinder, hoagie, or po'boy?

Regional differences/dialects.

Regarding Perrin

  Hide contents

At first, I was upset about him being married. However, they brought forth his central struggle very quickly by doing so. Yes, they sort of "fridged" his wife to do so, but she was likely a Darkfriend (but he didn't know that). Seeing how they want to develop him, I understand the point. It also adds depth to later interactions as well that were more irritating in the books.

Regarding the names

  Hide contents

"this series is going to suffer the same thing that all hi-fantasy does. The names are too weird and too hard to remember."

Unfortunately, yes, this is going to be a problem. When you're reading, you see the name over and over again, but on the show, it's going to be a challenge. Also, it's not going to get any easier as they add more characters (and they're coming, though given the pacing, perhaps not until Season 2)

A quick summary of how to spell names of characters you are going to want to reference regularly

Two Rivers Five (along with their full names, just because I am a book nerd)

• Egwene (Egwene al'Vere)
• Mat (Matrim Cauthon)
• Nynaeve (Nynaeve al'Meara)
• Perrin (Perrin Aybara)
• Rand (Rand Al'Thor) 

Aes Sedai and Warders

• Primary ones you'll need to know
  • Moraine (Moiraine Aes Sedai (nee Moraine Damodred))
  • Lan (al'Lan Mandragoran)
• Ones referenced in episode 4 who will likely return
  • The red sister: Liandrin (Liandrin Aes Sedai (nee Liandrin Guirale))
  • The (surviving) green sister: Alanna (Alanna Aes Sedai (nee Alanna Mosvani))
  • Alanna's warders are somewhat interchangeable, I don't even remember their names

 

Book nerd side note: The Aes Sedai give up their family names when they become the full members (also referred to in the first short as "taking the shawl"). Yes, it is sort of like in Game of Thrones when you went to the Wall. It also doesn't always mean they fully give up.

 

Woz - you are a boss and I appreciate this. I should have been much more clear in my post - the "complaints" section were all the things I felt I had to go research. So I already have all the answers from articles/wiki, haha. Thats what I meant when I said I spent 2-3 hours reading about the books.

My bad! I didnt mean to make you type it up again. 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Matts4313

[Woz]

1 hour ago, Deadpulse said:

HATE the idea of a show not standing on its own legs. If you need to watch animated shorts in order to fully understand the show thats a big fat turd on the show. I am not necessarily saying that is the case here, but to say "watch the animated shorts" is more a further indictment on the show than anything else. 

Okay, I've now caught all four shorts so I can answer this a bit.

You don't have to watch them. In fact, I would argue that short #2 (Fall of Manetheren) is redundant as they explained it in the show. As a book reader, I don't like them introducing short #3 (The Greatest Warder) where they have(*).

It's more if you want to know why the Dragon is an issue or why the Aes Sedai are fighting Logain in particular from a historical perspective -- #1 (The Breaking of the World) and #4 (Saidin, Saidar, Stone) give you backstory about how the world came to be, 3000 years prior to the show.

You could not see those and probably enjoy the show just as much as having seen them.

 

(*) It is too early in the narrative and makes no sense here. It won't spoil anything if you see it, but it would fit more in line later in the story.

1 hour ago, Deadpulse said:

Episode 4 is by far the best one. Gave us some good action, the plot seemed to actually move, and Matt and Rand are shown to be a bit capable. They used that fake Dragon really well to explain the anti-men sentiment and how the world operates a bit better. 

Completely concur with this.

1 hour ago, Deadpulse said:

I think my biggest remaining gripe so far is that we have FIVE almost helpless characters that need protection. Its just too many to fret over and it becomes a big who cares from me. I'd like to see them show more in terms of ability, because right now they just feel like mcguffins. 

Which, if you think about it, makes sense. You have a shepherd, a blacksmith, a poor thief, a mayor's daughter (who just became equivalent to an adult in her tiny village), and the town Wisdom.

Only the Wisdom have they (finally!) shown to have power and capability. The rest are effectively kids.

That's going to change though.

[Woz]

2 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

Woz - you are a boss and I appreciate this. I should have been much more clear in my post - the "complaints" section were all the things I felt I had to go research. So I already have all the answers from articles/wiki, haha. Thats what I meant when I said I spent 2-3 hours reading about the books.

My bad! I didnt mean to make you type it up again. 

Don't worry about it! I enjoy the series (both the books and the show) and I want to help others enjoy it.

[Matts4313]

1 minute ago, Woz said:

Don't worry about it! I enjoy the series (both the books and the show) and I want to help others enjoy it.

As you can tell by my post, one of the things I was most curious about was how magic was going to be handled. The wiki articles I read were very cool because they.. (let me go spoiler)

Spoiler

almost paint it like Avatar. Were these 5 are going to become very strong, but also create new types of weaving. Or maybe better stated, rediscover lost ways of weaving. I liken it to earth benders learning to bend metal. Thats going to give the show a lot of leeway in terms of they can basically use magic as a deus ex machina.  

SUPER DUPER SPOILER

Im also very interested if Thom the Gleeman recognizes Rands biological background. 

 

[Deadpulse]

9 minutes ago, Woz said:

Which, if you think about it, makes sense. You have a shepherd, a blacksmith, a poor thief, a mayor's daughter (who just became equivalent to an adult in her tiny village), and the town Wisdom.

Only the Wisdom have they (finally!) shown to have power and capability. The rest are effectively kids.

That's going to change though.

logically, I get this. There are just too many of them IMO. Boil it down to three and its much easier to digest. I'm not advocating for a massive shift from the books on this front, but honestly I have to get to know five characters from the word go and I am immediately told only ONE of them matters. They need to give each of them a clear defined secondary route if they arent the dragon so I actually care about each of them. Right now all their defining characteristics can be summed up like you just did in one word and then *COULD* be important to the world. It's not enough for characters that are supposed to be your main characters. 

[Woz]

There are mechanics to the magic system that Jordan created. They just haven't been touched on.