Wheel of Time Season 2 (Sept 1 Amazon Prime)

[Matts4313]

10 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

logically, I get this. There are just too many of them IMO. Boil it down to three and its much easier to digest. I'm not advocating for a massive shift from the books on this front, but honestly I have to get to know five characters from the word go and I am immediately told only ONE of them matters. They need to give each of them a clear defined secondary route if they arent the dragon so I actually care about each of them. Right now all their defining characteristics can be summed up like you just did in one word and then *COULD* be important to the world. It's not enough for characters that are supposed to be your main characters. 

You think there is a possibility that the main characters wont be important to the world? They made 14 books revolving around this group thats been introduced. Im going to venture out on a limb and say they all end up important in one capacity or another...

 

EDIT - That would be like saying Jon isnt important because Arya ended up as the "prince that was promised". You know all these peeps are going to play a big role. 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Matts4313

[Matts4313]

13 minutes ago, Woz said:

There are mechanics to the magic system that Jordan created. They just haven't been touched on.

Was this directed towards me? If so, might as well spill the beans. Ive already researched a lot...

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Matts4313

[Deadpulse]

5 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

You think there is a possibility that the main characters wont be important to the world? They made 14 books revolving around this group thats been introduced. Im going to venture out on a limb and say they all end up important in one capacity or another...

 

EDIT - That would be like saying Jon isnt important because Arya ended up as the "prince that was promised"

Its not even remotely like that. Sure, if I take the outside context into account, I can deduce that these characters might be important moving forward. However, the show as it stands makes it clear that their one and only value as it currently stands is their potential status as the Dragon. The analogy you are trying to draw between Arya and Jon does not work. At any given time both of those characters were independently given their own and interesting storyline, skills, and you could see their projected path. All five of these characters through 4 episodes have the exact same storyline. 

[Matts4313]

1 minute ago, Deadpulse said:

Its not even remotely like that. Sure, if I take the outside context into account, I can deduce that these characters might be important moving forward. However, the show as it stands makes it clear that their one and only value as it currently stands is their potential status as the Dragon. The analogy you are trying to draw between Arya and Jon does not work. At any given time both of those characters were independently given their own and interesting storyline, skills, and you could see their projected path. All five of these characters through 4 episodes have the exact same storyline. 

Counterpoint:

Not by episode 4 they didnt. Arya was an annoying runt who was headed to kings landing and Jon was going to the Wall to become irrelevant. In fact, by episode 4 the only people you really cared about was.... Well Ned Stark. And you knew King Robert was obviously important. The rest of them had storys about as interesting as the people in WOT. 

Even Dany wasnt really important, you thought her brother was "the dragon" (heyoo cross over names). 

[Woz]

Just now, Deadpulse said:

Its not even remotely like that. Sure, if I take the outside context into account, I can deduce that these characters might be important moving forward. However, the show as it stands makes it clear that their one and only value as it currently stands is their potential status as the Dragon. The analogy you are trying to draw between Arya and Jon does not work. At any given time both of those characters were independently given their own and interesting storyline, skills, and you could see their projected path. All five of these characters through 4 episodes have the exact same storyline. 

Well, I would say go back and watch the first couple of episodes of the first season of GoT. Robb, Arya, and Sansa have very similar storylines and Sansa in particular was paper thin in terms of development. Where they ended up after eight seasons is very different.

Let me just say that the Dragon is important. It does not mean that not being the Dragon means that character will fade into dust.

A different analogy might be chess: the King is the most important piece on the board but it cannot win on its own. Losing it, however, is the end of the line.

[Woz]

Oh, just because I'm curious, if you haven't read the books, feel free to drop me a DM as to who you think the Dragon is after each episode. I want to see how things turn out as we go forward.

[THE DUKE]

8 hours ago, Woz said:

Main difference is Voldermort, for all his power, was human. The Dark One is essentially this world's evil god. So, just a bit more power at its disposal.

Chuckling at "snaggletooth Lord Voldemort" ... that's a great description! I mean that!

  Reveal hidden contents

For the record, a Fade is effectively like a E-4/E-5 (Corporal/Sargent) or O-3 (Captain) in the army. Maybe gives you a sense of the power difference?

This is one of the places that I think the writers kind of screwed up.

There is distrust amongst the common folk towards the Aes Sedai; I mean, if you encountered someone who can call down lightning or throw fireballs, you might look at them askance as well. However, only the Red Ajah would be considered "man hating." Given that was the first introduction the audience had (as well as the intro with Moraine), it kind of set the tone for the whole group.

Has your opinion changed after episode 4? I feel like they started to actually explain the Aes Sedai much better there.

What do you think now?

Episode 4 was better, but kind of like The Witcher, I think they are going too big too fast (and I think the Witcher did it better than WoT given the non-linear storytelling of The Witcher).  None of the deaths or reveals so far have really earned any emotional impact. My biggest problem, but one I think they might get themselves out of is:

Spoiler

The Wisdom chick potentially being The Dragon after they spent the first three episodes building up the other 4 characters would be a cheap swerve. We basically don't really know anything about her, once again, little to no emotional impact.

I do agree that the Aes Saedi are getting fleshed out a little more, but they haven't really done much to make me feel on their side though outside of them talking about themselves fighting for good.

The only character I really feel for at the moment is Matt and that was mostly a cheap "he cares for his sisters he's a good guy deep down" kind of setup.  Rand feels close, but he needs built a little more and it needs to be outside of him being in love with the one chick who's name I seem to have trouble remembering.  I take that back, they are doing a decent job with Lan as well and an ok job with Moiraine.

Definitely trending up, looking forward to episode 5 and hope the writers dig themselves out of some of the pitfalls they seem to be heading towards.

[Deadpulse]

8 hours ago, Matts4313 said:

Counterpoint:

Not by episode 4 they didnt. Arya was an annoying runt who was headed to kings landing and Jon was going to the Wall to become irrelevant. In fact, by episode 4 the only people you really cared about was.... Well Ned Stark. And you knew King Robert was obviously important. The rest of them had storys about as interesting as the people in WOT. 

Even Dany wasnt really important, you thought her brother was "the dragon" (heyoo cross over names). 

 

8 hours ago, Woz said:

Well, I would say go back and watch the first couple of episodes of the first season of GoT. Robb, Arya, and Sansa have very similar storylines and Sansa in particular was paper thin in terms of development. Where they ended up after eight seasons is very different.

Let me just say that the Dragon is important. It does not mean that not being the Dragon means that character will fade into dust.

A different analogy might be chess: the King is the most important piece on the board but it cannot win on its own. Losing it, however, is the end of the line.

I guess I just don't agree with you guys about their characters arcs lol

I don't want to make this a GoT thread, but Arya was always trending away from 'princess' and trying to be a warrior of some kind. Sansa was basically a villain and foil for Arya. Robb was the self important but likable prince taking over for dear ole dad. This are clear roles in the overall narrative for each character from episode one. I don't think we have that for the Twin Rivers gang. 

[THE DUKE]

44 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

 

I guess I just don't agree with you guys about their characters arcs lol

I don't want to make this a GoT thread, but Arya was always trending away from 'princess' and trying to be a warrior of some kind. Sansa was basically a villain and foil for Arya. Robb was the self important but likable prince taking over for dear ole dad. This are clear roles in the overall narrative for each character from episode one. I don't think we have that for the Twin Rivers gang. 

I think they are trying to establish some roles, they just aren't storytelling very well. The big guy with the wolves is going to be something, Matt with the venom symbiote is going to be some sort of shaman/wizard type of role, Whatshername that Rand loves i'm not quite sure on yet but definitely following the Aes Saedi route, and Rand is going to be a leader of some sort.  Not sure whether that means he will eventually be The Dragon, or if he's just like a leader in keeping everyone united against Snaggletooth Lord Voldemort and his Dark SuperFriends.

[THE DUKE]

And assuming He Who Must Not Be Named isn't the big bad (which from discussion here he sounds more like a ringwraith comparison from LotR) then they really need something better than "The Dark One" to establish the big bad.

[Oregon Ducks]

86 on Rotten Tomatoes now and trending up. Very good news. I’m guessing we get Season 3 green lit before too long.

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/the_wheel_of_time/s01

[PrplChilPill]

No one I know feels they need the shorts or anything outside the show to understand it. 

[Oregon Ducks]

6 minutes ago, PrplChilPill said:

No one I know feels they need the shorts or anything outside the show to understand it. 

Yup. It’s just a additional content if you want to dive in deeper.

[sammymvpknight]

54 minutes ago, Oregon Ducks said:

86 on Rotten Tomatoes now and trending up. Very good news. I’m guessing we get Season 3 green lit before too long.

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/the_wheel_of_time/s01

This is very good news. All of our opinions don't matter if the rating websites aren't on board. And it is VERY important because we NEED a Way of Kings series and that may never happen if WoT bombs.

[Tk3]

12 hours ago, Deadpulse said:

logically, I get this. There are just too many of them IMO. Boil it down to three and its much easier to digest. I'm not advocating for a massive shift from the books on this front, but honestly I have to get to know five characters from the word go and I am immediately told only ONE of them matters. They need to give each of them a clear defined secondary route if they arent the dragon so I actually care about each of them. Right now all their defining characteristics can be summed up like you just did in one word and then *COULD* be important to the world. It's not enough for characters that are supposed to be your main characters. 

 

12 hours ago, Deadpulse said:

Its not even remotely like that. Sure, if I take the outside context into account, I can deduce that these characters might be important moving forward. However, the show as it stands makes it clear that their one and only value as it currently stands is their potential status as the Dragon. The analogy you are trying to draw between Arya and Jon does not work. At any given time both of those characters were independently given their own and interesting storyline, skills, and you could see their projected path. All five of these characters through 4 episodes have the exact same storyline. 

 

idk if I can agree with ANY of this. Firstly, I don't think its crazy for it to be a "wait and see" thing for the rest of them.

Secondly, I think we've already seen *interesting* things about all 5 of them so far, several very overtly, which should let us know that they have paths to interesting characters besides "not being the dragon"

It feels like you are asking for one narrow and tidy storyline from a story that is epic in scope