Offended by our offensive line.

[Go_Giants]

Still over a week to go till the regular season, I figured the o-line should get it own topic.

While all of us having different thoughts and opinions on the Giants, the one universal concern we all had was no real talent added to the o-line. I have no idea what Dave and Judge saw that everyone else is not seeing. Now their finally starting to see it and it might be too late.

For me sadly I think we need to blow up the offensive line and put it back together with the  most talented starting 5.

LT -Andrew Thomas, his issues on Sunday were technical they can and will be fixed.

LG - Will Hernandez, this is his original position he should no  have problems returning to it.

RG - Nick Gates,  he played RG once and did well at it when he did.

RT - Nate Solder, On Sunday we saw Nate played against the  same people Matt did. Matt struggled with them, Nate did not, Nate should start. I would want this just for the first two games, then put Matt back in at starting RT, or do the rotation with him and Nate. I believe Matt problem is not that he sucks it is the lack of reps. However with our first 5 games being winnable we can't sacrifice games to give Matt that experience.

C - Whoever, the Giants brought in a few people that can play center, the best man amongst them needs to be our new center.

 

I don't think the Giants will do this, cause it would show how badly they been handling the offensive line. I do believe Shane's injury can be a blessing in disguise. First he is the least talented out of all the projected starting offensive lineman which means the talent gap between him and his replacement is not going to be a large one. Second I feel it is very possible one of the new people brought in can be better than him.

What are you thoughts on the offensive line, do you believe it is fixable and would you fix it in a different manner than I suggested?

 

[ny92mike]

5 hours ago, Go_Giants said:

Still over a week to go till the regular season, I figured the o-line should get it own topic.

While all of us having different thoughts and opinions on the Giants, the one universal concern we all had was no real talent added to the o-line. I have no idea what Dave and Judge saw that everyone else is not seeing. Now their finally starting to see it and it might be too late.

I put this on Dave.  I believe he tried to get creative with this draft and the trades he made and it blew up in his face.  Judge imo, isn't going to publicly criticize his boss, but I'm sure he had his concerns about the status of the line.  Especially when the problems presented itself during the preseason got underway.    

5 hours ago, Go_Giants said:

For me sadly I think we need to blow up the offensive line and put it back together with the  most talented starting 5.

LT -Andrew Thomas, his issues on Sunday were technical they can and will be fixed.

Completely agree with you here.  Andrew is going to be just fine.  His issue right now is he's not kicking outside enough because I believe he's considered about giving up the inside blitz.  This could be caused by him not trusting his guard to pick it up, can't say for sure but it's correctable.  

5 hours ago, Go_Giants said:

LG - Will Hernandez, this is his original position he should no  have problems returning to it.

Not a fan of moving Will back to LG.  He was terrible at that position.  I've been an advocate of him moving to the RG spot for awhile now and now that I've seen him on the right side, it is a better fit for him.  He's actually been impressive at RG.

5 hours ago, Go_Giants said:

RG - Nick Gates,  he played RG once and did well at it when he did.

You are probably one of the few I know that would prefer him to be playing at guard, however I think LG would be his best position.  Think he would compliment Thomas on that left side.

5 hours ago, Go_Giants said:

RT - Nate Solder, On Sunday we saw Nate played against the  same people Matt did. Matt struggled with them, Nate did not, Nate should start. I would want this just for the first two games, then put Matt back in at starting RT, or do the rotation with him and Nate. I believe Matt problem is not that he sucks it is the lack of reps. However with our first 5 games being winnable we can't sacrifice games to give Matt that experience.

Yeah, I haven't gotten to watch too much of Matt this year but Nate is capable of playing the position.  

5 hours ago, Go_Giants said:

C - Whoever, the Giants brought in a few people that can play center, the best man amongst them needs to be our new center.

Agreed...The giants have signed I believe 3 interior lineman all of which are capable of playing the center position.  

5 hours ago, Go_Giants said:

I don't think the Giants will do this, cause it would show how badly they been handling the offensive line.

At this point, I don't think they care about optics.  I would hope that Judge has the authority to make changes to the line.  At this point, signing 3 lineman in this short amount of time shows how bad the situation is.  I'm also hoping that this was enough for the owners to fire him after this season.

5 hours ago, Go_Giants said:

I do believe Shane's injury can be a blessing in disguise. First he is the least talented out of all the projected starting offensive lineman which means the talent gap between him and his replacement is not going to be a large one. Second I feel it is very possible one of the new people brought in can be better than him.

What are you thoughts on the offensive line, do you believe it is fixable and would you fix it in a different manner than I suggested?

 

I guess if it were up to me to sort out the starters.  

LT -  Andrew Thomas

LG - Nick Gates

C - Billy Price

RG - Will Hernandez 

RT - Nate Solder

[Go_Giants]

2 hours ago, ny92mike said:

2 hours ago, ny92mike said:

I put this on Dave.  I believe he tried to get creative with this draft and the trades he made and it blew up in his face.  Judge imo, isn't going to publicly criticize his boss, but I'm sure he had his concerns about the status of the line.  Especially when the problems presented itself during the preseason got underway.

When I saw the disappointment on Dave's face when we drafted Azeez, I am pretty sure his plan was to take an offensive lineman but he got over ruled (and rightly so). Judge has gotten what ever he has wanted out of Dave so I can't put this all on Dave. I am putting it 70% Dave and 30% Judge.

2 hours ago, ny92mike said:

Not a fan of moving Will back to LG.  He was terrible at that position.  I've been an advocate of him moving to the RG spot for awhile now and now that I've seen him on the right side, it is a better fit for him.  He's actually been impressive at RG.

 

I don't believe where he was placed was the problem, to me the problem was Hernandez had the body of a mauler when the offensive line scheme was for more those more athletic. Hernandez lost the weight and made himself more athletic.

2 hours ago, ny92mike said:

You are probably one of the few I know that would prefer him to be playing at guard, however I think LG would be his best position.  Think he would compliment Thomas on that left side.

No I would prefer Gates to stay at guard, but as I said I want the five most talented offensive line men to be starting. I believe the 3 new people are centers that can play guard. To me that means their natural position is center and would be best played there. I would put Gates at guard where he could perform at an average level, rather than keeping him there and having Shane or one of these new linemen perform poorly at guard. 

Gates has never played LG before, don't think this is the time we should be experimenting with it which is why I prefer to put Hernandez on the left and Gates back to the right.

3 hours ago, ny92mike said:

At this point, I don't think they care about optics.  I would hope that Judge has the authority to make changes to the line.  At this point, signing 3 lineman in this short amount of time shows how bad the situation is.  I'm also hoping that this was enough for the owners to fire him after this season.

I am thinking it is more ego than optics, I am willing to bet the starting line up is going to be,

LT Andrew

LG Shane

C Nick

RG Will

RT Matt

If we go 0-2 then they will probably make the needed changes during the mini bye week after the WFT game. I do hope Judge proves me wrong and makes the changes now.

 

[ny92mike]

9 minutes ago, Go_Giants said:

I don't believe where he was placed was the problem, to me the problem was Hernandez had the body of a mauler when the offensive line scheme was for more those more athletic. Hernandez lost the weight and made himself more athletic.

Agree to disagree...I wasn't a fan of Will when the team drafted him.  If he had shown something while on the left side, I might be able to agree with you here.  

9 minutes ago, Go_Giants said:

No I would prefer Gates to stay at guard, but as I said I want the five most talented offensive line men to be starting. I believe the 3 new people are centers that can play guard. To me that means their natural position is center and would be best played there. I would put Gates at guard where he could perform at an average level, rather than keeping him there and having Shane or one of these new linemen perform poorly at guard. 

Gates has never played LG before, don't think this is the time we should be experimenting with it which is why I prefer to put Hernandez on the left and Gates back to the right.

For the first time since Will has been on this team, he's played his best football on the right side.  Finally found a position he can play would hate to mess with that.  Gates is a football player.  I don't think he'd have any issue playing the left side.  I heard that he's been practicing at guard but I'm not sure if that's been on the left or right side.  

Guess all I'm saying is I'd trust Gates to play the left side over Will moving back.

9 minutes ago, Go_Giants said:

I am thinking it is more ego than optics, I am willing to bet the starting line up is going to be,

LT Andrew

LG Shane

C Nick

RG Will

RT Matt

If we go 0-2 then they will probably make the needed changes during the mini bye week after the WFT game. I do hope Judge proves me wrong and makes the changes now.

 

Ideally, I'm sure this is what the Giants would prefer, it's been their plan from day one. If Shane and Matt can pull it off I'm all for it. 

[Giants4eva]

IMO - 

LT - Thomas / At this point its our only viable option. He is coachable, weve seen that. But he's on a short leash as of now. 

LG - Gates / He is a nasty SOB. I like that about him. But center is not his strong suit. I have to think that where hes done well is left guard, he seems to play his best football there. 

C - Price / Skura... take your pick. Price was a highly touted center when he came out of OSU but has not lived up to expectations. Alot of ppl from the Cincinnati organization were saying recently that he seems to just be starting to get it together. Same can be said for Ben Skura, but the slight edge i think at this point is Price. 

RG- Hernandez / I think this is his best spot. He plays his best football here. If im correct when he was at UTEP this was where they lined him up. I think this could be his spot along with his best season if they maintain him here. 

RT - Solder / Sorry but i think Matt Peart is a lost cause. Plays too soft, gets bumped off the line too much. Theres times where i just scratch my head like is this guy NFL ready? Solder has finally got his head together after all the off the field issues hes had and he seems to be in his best shape. Let him ride this season out on the right side. 

[ny92mike]

7 hours ago, Giants4eva said:

IMO - 

LT - Thomas / At this point its our only viable option. He is coachable, weve seen that. But he's on a short leash as of now. 

LG - Gates / He is a nasty SOB. I like that about him. But center is not his strong suit. I have to think that where hes done well is left guard, he seems to play his best football there. 

C - Price / Skura... take your pick. Price was a highly touted center when he came out of OSU but has not lived up to expectations. Alot of ppl from the Cincinnati organization were saying recently that he seems to just be starting to get it together. Same can be said for Ben Skura, but the slight edge i think at this point is Price. 

RG- Hernandez / I think this is his best spot. He plays his best football here. If im correct when he was at UTEP this was where they lined him up. I think this could be his spot along with his best season if they maintain him here. 

RT - Solder / Sorry but i think Matt Peart is a lost cause. Plays too soft, gets bumped off the line too much. Theres times where i just scratch my head like is this guy NFL ready? Solder has finally got his head together after all the off the field issues hes had and he seems to be in his best shape. Let him ride this season out on the right side. 

[minutemancl]

For week 1, I'm starting Solder over Peart at RT, even though he's been away from football for a year. He can help mitigate at least a little bit of the damage Miller and Chubb can cause. I'm keeping the rest of the OL the same, and I'm starting Peart week 3 at RT. Consistency is key for an OL. We already shuffle enough already; we need these guys to grow together. 

Of the OL on our active roster, 2 are 26 or older. Billy Price is 26 and Nate Solder is 30-something. Everyone else is 25 or younger. That is an insanely young group. They need game experience.

[GMENNATION]

Well looks like you guys got your wish at least for Week 1 Solder listed as the starter 😄

[Go_Giants]

3 minutes ago, GMENNATION said:

Well looks like you guys got your wish at least for Week 1 Solder listed as the starter 😄

Have a link?

[Go_Giants]

18 minutes ago, GMENNATION said:

Well looks like you guys got your wish at least for Week 1 Solder listed as the starter 😄

Found one.

 

 

[Giants4eva]

Watching how Solder outplayed Peart in the preseason, this was an easy decision. 

 

[minutemancl]

Even though Solder is starting, don't be surprised to see Peart get a few series of playing time at RT. These kids can't get better without reps.

[minutemancl]

This may explain, but still doesn't really excuse, Andrew Thomas's performance in the last preseason game:

https://www.nj.com/giants/2021/09/how-giants-andrew-thomas-a-musician-learned-to-tune-out-the-noise-with-some-help-from-jay-z.html

Apparently he toughed it out through some serious dehydration issues. Good on him though to make excuses for himself in the postgame presser. Tough kid.

[y*so*blu]

Following up on this, I have to admit the offensive line hasn't looked nearly as bad as I feared. Their run blocking isn't very good yet, but they've actually done all right against some stiff pass rushers in the Broncos and No Names...even after Gates went down. The exception is Andrew Thomas who got undressed last week. But the others were buying Daniel Jones plenty of time out there. Billy Price had some timing issues on the snap but he blocked well and caused no fumbles. 

Edited September 18, 2021 by y*so*blu

[Go_Giants]

Have mixed feelings about this.

 

On one hand I don't want to give up on Peart as a Tackle, he really needs more reps there. On the other hand it is not like he is a top 10 first round pick. Getting a starting guard late in the 3rd round is still a success story if Peart can handle it.