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domepatrol91

Kenny Vaccaro - What's he worth?

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1 hour ago, SSK said:

He's better than anything they've put out there this season. An upgrade next season would be nice. It would also give them a 3rd CB worthy of playing if Lattimore and Crawley get hurt. Williams is ok for a game or two but can definitely be upgraded. 

The only reason he covers the slot if because the Saints like to run 3 saftey looks, and if Vaccaro is covering the slot then he is close to the LOS and can make plays in the run game. Running 3 saftey looks also keeps Kenny out of deep zone coverage, which he struggles with. Just because he plays the slot doesn't make him a good slot corner. 

Take PFF for what you will, but he has a 36.8 grade as a cornerback. He obviously has some issues with his role without plenty of help around him.

That being said... I would take Kenny over De'Vante Harris in the slot any day. 

Edited by JMG5
Typos

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11 hours ago, JMG5 said:

That being said... I would take Kenny over De'Vante Harris in the slot any day. 

I'd take Drew Brees in the slot over DeVante Harris.

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17 hours ago, JMG5 said:

The only reason he covers the slot if because the Saints like to run 3 saftey looks, and if Vaccaro is covering the slot then he is close to the LOS and can make plays in the run game. Running 3 saftey looks also keeps Kenny out of deep zone coverage, which he struggles with. Just because he plays the slot doesn't make him a good slot corner. 

Take PFF for what you will, but he has a 36.8 grade as a cornerback. He obviously has some issues with his role without plenty of help around him.

That being said... I would take Kenny over De'Vante Harris in the slot any day. 

JMG5:

"We really need to stop using Vaccaro in the slot. As much as all of you want to praise his coverage ability, he isn't good against WRs. He can somewhat handle TEs outside of Gronk, but we need someone who can actually stick hip to hip with the opposing team and not get burnt against RBs and WRs. He is constantly a step behind when in coverage. We need an upgrade to cover the slot and let Vaccaro play to his strengths (playing near the LOS)."

He is actually pretty good in coverage in the slot. He was coming off a groin injury and had an overall down game against the Rams. However that stats don't lie. Going into that Rams game, he had a 40.7 QB Rating against him, so outside of a game in which he was going against a great team coming off a groin injury, he's had a great year in coverage. He's also a better tackler than any other options we have that we could put in the slot, so the combo of coverage/tackling from that spot has been huge with Lattimore, and Crawley holding down the outside spots. That is what we need the rest of the year and going forward. 

https://deadspin.com/how-the-saints-defense-finally-got-its-act-together-1820215988

"That has allowed Kenny Vaccaro—no stranger to position switches over his five seasons—to play 285 of his 455 snaps as at cornerback, with most of those coming in the slot. And Vaccaro is giving up a passer rating of just 40.7, which ranks third-lowest in the league among CBs, according to PFF."

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Passer rating doesn't always tell the whole story.

I'm not saying he is terrible, but you cant forget that he did get benched because of his poor play. His coverage struggles aren't just magically fixed because he had a string of solid games. We need a better option in the future.

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30 minutes ago, JMG5 said:

Passer rating doesn't always tell the whole story.

I'm not saying he is terrible, but you cant forget that he did get benched because of his poor play. His coverage struggles aren't just magically fixed because he had a string of solid games. We need a better option in the future.

Passer rating, passes defended, and interceptions have told a different story. This is more complex than you are making it. He did get benched and played much better after. This isn't unheard of. Look at guys like Jenkins and Robinson for the Eagles. They are magically playing excellent after leaving here. Surrounding talent and being properly utilized plays a large roll in that. Hence a guy like Vaccaro playing great when the Saints are surrounding him with other talented players that allows him to focus on the slot and move around in ways that utilize his versatility most effectively.

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1 hour ago, JMG5 said:

I'm not saying he is terrible, but you cant forget that he did get benched because of his poor play. 

That’s fair, but he was also being thrown into matchups he shouldn’t have been.

He was doing a bad job, but they kinda hung Vaccaro out to dry on a couple plays. You put a player in a spot where they have to do what they’re worst at and they’re gonna look bad.

Hes definitely a limited player, but if used properly he’s very important to this defense.

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2 hours ago, domepatrol91 said:

That’s fair, but he was also being thrown into matchups he shouldn’t have been.

He was doing a bad job, but they kinda hung Vaccaro out to dry on a couple plays. You put a player in a spot where they have to do what they’re worst at and they’re gonna look bad.

Hes definitely a limited player, but if used properly he’s very important to this defense.

Bad match up or not, it doesn't excuse his lackluster tackling skills he showcases a couple times a game. And I'm not talking about the tackles where dude from the other team made a great move that woulda broke nearly anyone's ankles.....you know which tackles I speak of. The ones where we're all left scratching our heads while watching the TV going "Why didn't he try to tackle that guy?" or my favortie "What the hell was he trying to tackle?!" xD

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6 hours ago, JustPlainNasty said:

how many snaps is Bell typically on the field for? Whats with the uptick in tackles lately ?

He’s been used as a box safety a lot more with Vaccaro having to play outside while Lattimore and Crawley out. As they get healthy he might go back down.

He’s played roughly 70% of our defensive snaps and 40% of our special teams snaps on the season, but don’t have more specific counts per game.

Hes a good tackler and blitzing safety but really limited in coverage. I’m assuming you’re asking for IDP fantasy scoring?

Edited by domepatrol91

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, saintsfan said:

Vaccaro was PFF's 2nd WORST graded safety in the entire league

He has been all year, even on that 5-7 game stretch where he clearly wasn’t bad by any stretch of the imagination. He actually looked like a quality defender for that run and they had him ranked that low, I don’t get it.

I don’t like their grading system when it comes to positions like safety and TE where there’s SO much to be accounted for.

Edited by domepatrol91

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20 hours ago, saintsfan said:

Vaccaro was PFF's 2nd WORST graded safety in the entire league

I'm sure we'll give him a $60million ($30 guar) 4 year "prove it" contract. 

He's a good Safety, I just hope he doesn't become the highest paid. Let's not Byrd him. I'm so tired of the "highest paid" race we've seen with good QB's. Not great ones, just good ones.

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3 hours ago, Mid Iowa said:

I'm sure we'll give him a $60million ($30 guar) 4 year "prove it" contract. 

He's a good Safety, I just hope he doesn't become the highest paid. Let's not Byrd him. I'm so tired of the "highest paid" race we've seen with good QB's. Not great ones, just good ones.

I'm a big Vaccaro supporter, I think he's a valuable defender for us when healthy given his versatility to line up all over. However, I'd have to agree that if he's not willing to take a fairly reasonable offer, we would be best to just move forward with Marcus Williams, Bell, and Bush for now.

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The only reason I don't want to let him go is because of his leadership. His play is mediocre at times and he can be replaced on the field. His leadership is what I don't think the Saints can replace right away, and that is very important considering how young our defense is.

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