Kenny Vaccaro - What's he worth?

[tyler735]

1 hour ago, JMG5 said:

He isn't a Top 5 SS. He will probably get paid like one though, which sucks for our cap. I don't think we can afford to let him go though. His leadership means too much and he is pretty darn good against the run at times.

Maybe as a traditional strong safety he isn't top 5, but his versatility to play all over is key, and he's been one of the best coverage safetys in the NFL this year. He's been huge for us in the slot/covering Tight Ends

[whodatworm23]

9 hours ago, tyler735 said:

Maybe as a traditional strong safety he isn't top 5, but his versatility to play all over is key, and he's been one of the best coverage safetys in the NFL this year. He's been huge for us in the slot/covering Tight Ends

I typically dont view a players worth league wide... I perfer to evaluate a players worth to our roster and assess a price tag to him that way and if hes asking for more than that you move on.

 

In Vaccaros case I can see the Saints placing a higher value on him to their roster than what others might which could lead to a big payday for him. I also agree that leadership, versatility and being a homegrown talent should be a major factor in assessing a player like Vaccaros worth.

[tyler735]

Just now, whodatworm23 said:

I typically dont view a players worth league wide... I perfer to evaluate a players worth to our roster and assess a price tag to him that way and if hes asking for more than that you move on.

 

In Vaccaros case I can see the Saints placing a higher value on him to their roster than what others might which could lead to a big payday for him. I also agree that leadership, versatility and being a homegrown talent should be a major factor in assessing a player like Vaccaros worth.

I agree, this is all true. Something else I mentioned this in another thread on him is that he makes up for deficiencies we have at both CB and LB. Currently opposing teams feast on CB's not named Lattimore/Crawley, so having Vaccaro in coverage is huge for us. We also have a solid disciplined LB unit, but they lack athleticism, so having Vaccaro cover some of the more athletic TE's has also been crucial for us. We have tons of depth at Safety, so it allows us to use Vaccaro as a chess piece that can give us more favorable matchups all over the field. In my eyes that drives up his value quite a bit, and is someone I think we need to bring back even if we have to spend a bit more as he is crucial to our success on defense.

[JMG5]

Without good players around him to cover up all of his flaws, not much. He is good against the run and brings leadership, but that's about it.

[whodatworm23]

On 11/27/2017 at 4:03 PM, JMG5 said:

Without good players around him to cover up all of his flaws, not much. He is good against the run and brings leadership, but that's about it.

The Saints gave Fleener 5 years 36 million with about 15 million guaranteed... Lets think about that for a second.

 

Now ask yourself... Is Vaccaro worth more to this team than Fleener?

 

Like any other player, the market will dictate his value.

[Mid Iowa]

4 hours ago, whodatworm23 said:

The Saints gave Fleener 5 years 36 million with about 15 million guaranteed... Lets think about that for a second.

Now ask yourself... Is Vaccaro worth more to this team than Fleener?

Like any other player, the market will dictate his value.

We also gave Galette a 4/$41.5 mil deal, and Byrd a 6/$56mill - then let our talented CB's go due to price.

So really, it's anybodies bag at this point.

What I'll say is Vacarro was really good when he had 2 good corners, and when they've been out, he's been average at best.

[whodatworm23]

19 hours ago, Mid Iowa said:

We also gave Galette a 4/$41.5 mil deal, and Byrd a 6/$56mill - then let our talented CB's go due to price.

So really, it's anybodies bag at this point.

What I'll say is Vacarro was really good when he had 2 good corners, and when they've been out, he's been average at best.

Your arguing a talent issue with Vaccaro...

 

Galette was a character case and Byrd a health issue... Both faults of the Saints sure but a different argument than what your making with Vaccaro.

[Mid Iowa]

6 hours ago, whodatworm23 said:

Galette was a character case and Byrd a health issue... Both faults of the Saints sure but a different argument than what your making with Vaccaro.

I get your point, and how is Vaccaro different? He has only played 1 full season because he gets injured (granted, not as much as Byrd) or gets benched for having an attitude problem or whatever. At least he's not locker room poison.

He just missed 2 games and came back without any fire, or spark, or heat at all for that matter. Not to mention the Patriots game where he was so awful they benched him.

I know it seems small, but that's 4 games (1/4 the season) and he should be compensated as such.

It's kinda like Armstead, such a stud when firing on all cylinders, and then gone, so everyone else has to scramble and disrupt continuity.

[whodatworm23]

This argument typically falls back on Vonn Bell... Meaning if ya wanna move on from a guy the 1st question you have to answer is who do you replace him with? 

 

Bell is a solid player, very similar to Vaccaro and price wise might make sense to move onto him and allow vaccaro to hit FA. However, Bell is prone to many of the same mistakes vaccaro makes and its unknown what his leadership skills are like. Need to remember that vaccaro is the veteran pressence in that defensive secondary.

[Dome]

On 11/29/2017 at 12:43 AM, whodatworm23 said:

The Saints gave Fleener 5 years 36 million with about 15 million guaranteed... Lets think about that for a second.

 

Now ask yourself... Is Vaccaro worth more to this team than Fleener?

 

Hindsight is 20/20. I remember you and I specifically supported that signing at the time, but would've scoffed if someone had suggested Vaccaro get anything near that at the time. Thing can change quick in the NFL. Obviously now and moving forward Fleener doesn't deserve nearly what he's making, and Vaccaro is clearly the bigger difference maker for this team but it's kind of comparing apples to oranges, several years apart.

[Dome]

2 minutes ago, whodatworm23 said:

Bell is a solid player, very similar to Vaccaro and price wise might make sense to move onto him and allow vaccaro to hit FA. However, Bell is prone to many of the same mistakes vaccaro makes and its unknown what his leadership skills are like. Need to remember that vaccaro is the veteran pressence in that defensive secondary.

I don't really trust Bell to step into a bigger role. I like him as a reserve and extra DB and he tackles well in the box and blitzes well too. If we are going to replace Vaccaro I think it needs to be with a vocal vet or high draft pick. Maybe we draft aa CB/S tweener like Jenkins was for us, but don't let him freaking walk in FA this time.

I think Bell still can fill that box DB role Vaccaro has for us, I just don't know if he's a guy we can put on a TE or slot WR in coverage like Vaccaro has done well this year. 

 

[Mid Iowa]

2 hours ago, whodatworm23 said:

This argument typically falls back on Vonn Bell... Meaning if ya wanna move on from a guy the 1st question you have to answer is who do you replace him with? 

This would be how you and I might approach it, but looking at what we've done with the rest of our secondary over the last 4 seasons, the history doesn't support this argument. We haven't had a replacement corner since...........? Yet we kept cutting them loose. 

[SSK]

Im not on the Bell replacing Vaccaro train. Bell doesn't cover nearly as well as Vaccaro. Maybe an upgrade at nickle CB would displace Vaccaro enough to where Bell could take over. 

[JMG5]

2 minutes ago, SSK said:

Im not on the Bell replacing Vaccaro train. Bell doesn't cover nearly as well as Vaccaro. Maybe an upgrade at nickle CB would displace Vaccaro enough to where Bell could take over. 

We really need to stop using Vaccaro in the slot. As much as all of you want to praise his coverage ability, he isn't good against WRs. He can somewhat handle TEs outside of Gronk, but we need someone who can actually stick hip to hip with the opposing team and not get burnt against RBs and WRs. He is constantly a step behind when in coverage. We need an upgrade to cover the slot and let Vaccaro play to his strengths (playing near the LOS).

[SSK]

2 hours ago, JMG5 said:

We really need to stop using Vaccaro in the slot. As much as all of you want to praise his coverage ability, he isn't good against WRs. He can somewhat handle TEs outside of Gronk, but we need someone who can actually stick hip to hip with the opposing team and not get burnt against RBs and WRs. He is constantly a step behind when in coverage. We need an upgrade to cover the slot and let Vaccaro play to his strengths (playing near the LOS).

He's better than anything they've put out there this season. An upgrade next season would be nice. It would also give them a 3rd CB worthy of playing if Lattimore and Crawley get hurt. Williams is ok for a game or two but can definitely be upgraded.